Church Membership

[sdegutis]

I’m sorry, but I do not believe that the Catholic church holds the market on the truth. So do not presume to think what my main problem is because you would be wrong in that assumption.

I will not be part of a church that tells me that I must be married within their four walls, by there priest in order for my marriage to be valid in the eyes of God. I will not be part of a church that essentially tells me and my wife that we’re fornicating because we weren’t married within it’s walls by it’s priest. I will not be part of a church that because my wife doesn’t want to go back to being Catholic, nor go through con-validation, then asks me to betray my wife by going behind her back to get it validated via radical sanation.

Ahh! But if you look closely enough, it doesn’t actually say that.

I had a discussion with my priest the other day, and he explained to me that there’s the “outer forum” and the “inner forum”. While something may be labeled as a sin “in the books” or in the “outer forum”, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a sin in the “inner forum”. That’s because God knows each of us personally, and He knows our history and our inner struggles and our past, and He knows where our heart is. So what’s usually a mortal sin may not individually be a mortal sin for a specific person.

Dear God, lonegreywolf20 has been very hurt by someone in Your Church. Please heal lonegreywolf20’s wounds and give him true peace of heart, not as the world gives but as you give. Please be with lonegreywolf20 in all his struggles and guide him always in Your ways. Amen.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

…Because this is a Catholic Forum, and as far as they’re concerned everyone who doesn’t agree with the CC is mistaken?

So does this post not apply to Catholics as well posting in the non-Catholic forum?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=493312

Just a reminder:
If your purpose in posting on the NCR forum is to proselytize, your account will be closed.

 

[sdegutis]

Am I not posting in the non-Catholic religion forum?

Might I ask why Catholics are coming into this part of the forum to proselytize?

For one thing, this is Catholic Answers forums, and this is just a non-Catholic sub-forum

But I’m not actually proselytizing. Feel free to do what you want, my brother in Christ. (God knows your heart and if you follow God truly, you’ll do just fine.) Actually, I said that because you reminded me of part of our priest’s homily the other day.

There were some atheists who regularly attended a priest’s forum (non-internet type of forum) for discussion. And the atheists kept telling the priest “oh we don’t need God, we don’t need religion, we’re just fine without it.” And the priest answered: “Oh really? Then why do you show up here in my forum day after day?”

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Ahh! But if you look closely enough, it doesn’t actually say that.

I had a discussion with my priest the other day, and he explained to me that there’s the “outer forum” and the “inner forum”. While something may be labeled as a sin “in the books” or in the “outer forum”, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a sin in the “inner forum”. That’s because God knows each of us personally, and He knows our history and our inner struggles and our past, and He knows where our heart is. So what’s usually a mortal sin may not individually be a mortal sin for a specific person.

Dear God, lonegreywolf20 has been very hurt by someone in Your Church. Please heal lonegreywolf20’s wounds and give him true peace of heart, not as the world gives but as you give. Please be with lonegreywolf20 in all his struggles and guide him always in Your ways. Amen.

I read the Catechism, I read the relevant section regarding marriages such as mine. While it does not come right out and say that we’re fornicating, the implication of the rules that we’re living in sin certainly does.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

For one thing, this is Catholic Answers forums, and this is just a non-Catholic sub-forum

Yes, and as such, those who are part of a non-Catholic religion should be protected from Catholics.

Other Christian forums that I am part of do things that way.

 

[sdegutis]

I read the Catechism, I read the relevant section regarding marriages such as mine. While it does not come right out and say that we’re fornicating, the implication of the rules that we’re living in sin certainly does.

No no my dear friend, you must misunderstand me! The books and rules may say one thing, but God truly knows your heart. What may be a mortal sin for one person is not necessarily a mortal sin for another, due to circumstances and history. That’s what I meant when I said God knows your heart. If you talk to a good priest, he will probably say just the very same thing! The Catholic religion isn’t really about following rules, it’s about following God, out of love, because of love, and in love. If we truly strive to love God with our whole being, everything will fall into place perfectly <3

 

[sdegutis]

Yes, and as such, those who are part of a non-Catholic religion should be protected from Catholics.

Other Christian forums that I am part of do things that way.

Your use of the phrase “protected from” hurts my feelings and implies that I was being malicious or attacking. But I trust that you’re only speaking out of your own pain and meant no offense by it. Please, read the very next part of my comment that you’re quoting, and you’ll see that I was by no means proselytizing you.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

No no my dear friend, you must misunderstand me! The books and rules may say one thing, but God truly knows your heart. What may be a mortal sin for one person is not necessarily a mortal sin for another, due to circumstances and history. That’s what I meant when I said God knows your heart. If you talk to a good priest, he will probably say just the very same thing! The Catholic religion isn’t really about following rules, it’s about following God, out of love, because of love, and in love. If we truly strive to love God with our whole being, everything will fall into place perfectly <3

As I said, I have left the Catholicism never to return. If God does truly know my heart, than me being out of the Catholic church is fine by Him since he knows the reason for why I left.

I am going to ask that no one else reply with I am leaving the truth or try and get me to rejoin the Catholic church. My mind is made up and I have made the best choice for my family and I.

 

[SteveVH]

I have not become the final arbiter of truth, that was a nice attempt at discrediting me. I will not go with man made rules, and having to married within it’s walls by it’s priest is a man made rule.

I will not be part of a church that rivals the pharisees when it comes to rules.

First of all it was Christ who sanctified human marriage and said “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.” (Mark 10:11-12)

How is this a “man-made rule”?

Once again, you depend upon your own judgment rather than the judgment of the Church, even classifying Christ’s own words as “man-made”. Have you ever considered that it might be you who are in error rather than the Church? Is that a possibility?

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Your use of the phrase “protected from” hurts my feelings and implies that I was being malicious or attacking. But I trust that you’re only speaking out of your own pain and meant no offense by it. Please, read the very next part of my comment that you’re quoting, and you’ll see that I was by no means proselytizing you.

My intent was not to hurt your feelings. It was meant to prove a point and nothing more. My apologies.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

First of all it was Christ who sanctified human marriage and said “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.” (Mark 10:11-12)

How is this a “man-made rule”?

Once again, you depend upon your own judgment rather than the judgment of the Church, even classifying Christ’s own words as “man-made”. Have you ever considered that it might be you who are in error rather than the Church? is that a possibility?

Tell me, where in that does it say you must be married in the Catholic church by one of it’s priests in Mark 10:11-12?

Why in the world is the subject of committing adultery coming up?

 

[Verka]

First of all it was Christ who sanctified human marriage and said “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.” (Mark 10:11-12)

How is this a “man-made rule”?

Oh I don’t know…How about the fact it was allowed right up until the schism in the 1000’s when Rome and Byzantium ex-communicated one another?

I’ve noticed a lot of Catholics aren’t eager to admit that, but that tradition is far older than the current Catholic one. Now, get off your high horse and leave the poor sod alone. If he wanted a hellfire sermon, he’d have gone to mass.

 

[pianistclare]

Yes, and as such, those who are part of a non-Catholic religion should be protected from Catholics.

Other Christian forums that I am part of do things that way.

Protected from Catholics? OUCH.
What part of the Christian faith does THAT come from?
Sorry.
The bottom line is, you’re angry at the church because you don’t understand the teaching. ok, fair enough.
But you’re on a Catholic site. And Catholics are going to try to help you see the Catholic view. That’s the way it goes. I imagine if I go to an atheist site, I’d be told I was all wet. by them.
Go to a Baptist site and ask THEM to explain their tithing policies and the Biblical source of their teaching.
It seems your beef with them is the same as with us. You don’t want to encumbered by teachings. As one said already, good luck.
Best wishes.

 

[sdegutis]

As I said, I have left the Catholicism never to return. If God does truly know my heart, than me being out of the Catholic church is fine by Him since he knows the reason for why I left.

I am going to ask that no one else reply with I am leaving the truth or try and get me to rejoin the Catholic church. My mind is made up and I have made the best choice for my family and I.

You’re projecting, my dear brother in Christ. In none of my comments was I trying to convince you to come back to the Catholic Church. I even made that explicitly clear in one of them. You’re having an argument with yourself! Oh I do wish you could see that.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Protected from Catholics? OUCH.
What part of the Christian faith does THAT come from?
Sorry.
The bottom line is, you’re angry at the church because you don’t understand the teaching. ok, fair enough.
But you’re on a Catholic site. And Catholics are going to try to help you see the Catholic view. That’s the way it goes. I imagine if I go to an atheist site, I’d be told I was all wet. by them.
Go to a Baptist site and ask THEM to explain their tithing policies and the Biblical source of their teaching.
It seems your beef with them is the same as with us. You don’t want to encumbered by teachings. As one said already, good luck.
Best wishes.

So I guess Catholics are exempt from the rule of no proselytizing that these Forum admins have posted.

Good to know that there is a double standard.

My mistake for thinking that the non-Catholic religion forum meant exactly that.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

You’re projecting, my dear brother in Christ. In none of my comments was I trying to convince you to come back to the Catholic Church. I even made that explicitly clear in one of them. You’re having an argument with yourself! Oh I do wish you could see that.

I have re-read your posts. You are correct, you are not proselytizing, however, if you read others posts in this thread you will see that they indeed are.

 

[Telstar]

Before I returned to the Catholic church around October of last year, I church hopped for five years prior after returning to God after leaving Him as a teenager looking for a church to attend. I went back to the Catholic church, but my wife wouldn’t attend with me. After finding out what I wrote in my last reply, I walked away from the church once more and I will never return.

The church where do attend now is the only church her and I do agree on that is within a reasonable distance from our home. So there is no other church without an agreement that her and I can agree on within a reasonable distance from our home and we tried many.

So, what you’re basically saying is that you walked away from the Catholic Church because you felt that it was “imposing it’s rules” on you, so you found another church that you liked. Until now. So, because that new church is also trying to do something similar, your first reaction is thinking of bolting, again. I really don’t think the problem is with either of those churches. You apparently don’t like having to submit to anyone’s authority. You just want to be able to follow your own rules.

 

[sdegutis]

So I guess Catholics are exempt from the rule of no proselytizing that these Forum admins have posted.

Good to know that there is a double standard.

My mistake for thinking that the non-Catholic religion forum meant exactly that.

Yes, there are rule-breakers and rude people in the world, including in here, including Catholics. But we’re not supposed to be rude to them in return – the golden rule is universally recognized by all Christians! Pray for your enemies, do good to them, our Lord says!

I wish you could see that you’re not speaking out of love, my friend, but out of anger and pain. I’m sure Jesus is not very pleased with the way they’re treating you and you’re treating them in return. Jesus wants us to love one another and do good to all, even our enemies, even those who do evil to us!

 

[sdegutis]

I have re-read your posts. You are correct, you are not proselytizing, however, if you read others posts in this thread you will see that they indeed are.

My intent was not to hurt your feelings. It was meant to prove a point and nothing more. My apologies.

Apologies accepted

 

[mjwise]

With that said, one thing that does bother me is that in order to be considered a member you must sign a membership agreement. I will not go into the what is in the agreement as there is only one thing that I disagree with and that is in regards to tithing. That is another subject for another time and frankly really prefer not to get into a conversation regarding tithing.

…

It is just that membership agreement that doesn’t sit well with me.

Any advice?

I would never sign an agreement to be considered a member of a church (to be a “member”), especially one that tried to bind me to a certain level of giving. At my church, the requirements to vote for vestry and delegates (the closest Episcopalians really get to “membership”) include Baptism, being age 18, having regular attendance at Eucharist for 6 months, and communicating at Eucharist 3 times in that span.