Church Membership

[lonegreywolf20]

Yes, there are rule-breakers and rude people in the world, including in here, including Catholics. But we’re not supposed to be rude to them in return – the golden rule is universally recognized by all Christians! Pray for your enemies, do good to them, our Lord says!

I wish you could see that you’re not speaking out of love, my friend, but out of anger and pain. I’m sure Jesus is not very pleased with the way they’re treating you and you’re treating them in return. Jesus wants us to love one another and do good to all, even our enemies, even those who do evil to us!

There is no anger or pain as I am typing this, I am not sure why it’s coming through that way on your screen.

 

[pianistclare]

So I guess Catholics are exempt from the rule of no proselytizing that these Forum admins have posted.

Good to know that there is a double standard.

My mistake for thinking that the non-Catholic religion forum meant exactly that.

WHERE in my post did I ask you to come back or tell you that you should?
As a member of this forum, I can post wherever I choose. Just like you.
Wow. Again, why don’t you just ask the Baptists what they mean and intend by your signature? Seems that would be the logical approach…
I’m out.

 

[SteveVH]

Tell me, where in that does it say you must be married in the Catholic church by one of it’s priests in Mark 10:11-12?

Why in the world is the subject of committing adultery coming up?

Christ was speaking of divorce in response to those who said that Moses allowed it. Christ was speaking to the sacramental nature of marriage and that man could not change what God had joined together. I was not speaking to the issue of adultery.

The reason you must be married in the Catholic Church is because marriage is a sacrament and the Catholic Church is the only Church with the authority to administer the sacraments. Otherwise you may as well just go to the courthouse and get a marriage license. It is God who joins together, not the state.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Christ was speaking of divorce in response to those who said that Moses allowed it. Christ was speaking to the sacramental nature of marriage and that man could not change what God had joined together. I was not speaking to the issue of adultery.

The reason you must be married in the Catholic Church is because marriage is a sacrament and the Catholic Church is the only Church with the authority to administer the sacraments. Otherwise you may as well just go to the courthouse and get a marriage license. It is God who joins together, not the state.

Exactly, it is God who joins two people together and God is not just found in the Catholic church. We were married in front of a pastor and we made a covenant before God. We just didn’t do it in the Catholic church by one of it’s priests.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I will not go with man made rules, and having to married within it’s walls by it’s priest is a man made rule.

I will not be part of a church that rivals the pharisees when it comes to rules.

And yet you want to join a church that has the man-made rule that you need to sign a membership form.

Shouldn’t you walk away from them as well?

 

[lonegreywolf20]

And yet you want to join a church that has the man-made rule that you need to sign a membership form.

Shouldn’t you walk away from them as well?

Or has been suggested, I just do not sign the membership agreement.

The difference being, at the church where we attend it would not be considered a sin not to sign it, however, in the Catholic church, as I have been told and read, my wife and I would be committing mortal sin.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Or has been suggested, I just do not sign the membership agreement.

How much difference does it make to be a member or not? Are visitors as accepted as members are? Can visitors participate in everything members can?

Are you OK with being a visitor rather than a member? Are you OK with whatever limitations are put on visitors?

I think these are decisions you need to make.

 

[sdegutis]

At the protestant church I used to go to, they also had a membership form. And I was so proud to sign it!

But when I came to the Catholic Church, it was explained to me better that true membership is first done by Baptism (which most protestant churches even have), and then held onto by a continued profession of faith (belief in the common creeds), and finally by the regular breaking of the bread. This was related to how in chapter 4 of Ephesians, St. Paul talks about one baptism, one body, one faith. I forget where in the Bible St. Paul talks about how we’re all sharing in the exact same bread, but if it’s really just Jesus, then it’s pretty obvious (“one Lord”) that it’s the same bread. So that’s how I see membership these days. Not only is it easier to do (signing things always makes me nervous!) but it’s also very practical and common-sense when you think about it in retrospect.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

How much difference does it make to be a member or not? Are visitors as accepted as members are? Can visitors participate in everything members can?

Are you OK with being a visitor rather than a member? Are you OK with whatever limitations are put on visitors?

I think these are decisions you need to make.

Thank you. I am starting to think we will just stay the course and see what happens after we’re there for a while and see if there are any differences.

 

[SteveVH]

Oh I don’t know…How about the fact it was allowed right up until the schism in the 1000’s when Rome and Byzantium ex-communicated one another?

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you telling me that the Church allowed divorce until the schism? Please provide evidence for this.

I’ve noticed a lot of Catholics aren’t eager to admit that, but that tradition is far older than the current Catholic one. Now, get off your high horse and leave the poor sod alone. If he wanted a hellfire sermon, he’d have gone to mass.

Catholics are usually not eager to admit things that are not true. As far as leaving the poor sod alone, he is the one that asked for advice. My advice is to stay with the one, true Church rather than the man-made versions found in the protestant world. Its as simple as that. If he doesn’t like that advice he is welcome to ignore it.

 

[Telstar]

Exactly, it is God who joins two people together and God is not just found in the Catholic church. We were married in front of a pastor and we made a covenant before God. We just didn’t do it in the Catholic church by one of it’s priests.

You do realize that you just need to get your marriage blessed by the Priest, right? It’s like going through the whole ceremony (taking of the vows), again, but it’s not all that difficult to do. It’s not like you have to send out invitations or have a reception. All you really need is a couple of witnesses (best man, maid of honor).

My husband and I (when we were young and very foolish) let some friends talk us into ‘eloping’, by getting married by a JP. I thought my mother-in-law was going to kill me when we told her what we did (if looks could kill). She was a very devout Catholic, and she had every right to be upset with us (at the time, she worked in the church rectory as the Priests’ cook ). Heck, I really didn’t like it, either. Neither one of us even felt as if we were married, at all. So, we had to go through the announcement of the Bands, etc., which took a couple of weeks, but when it was all done, we knew we were finally married, for real. My point is, you’re making it out to be some kind of horrendous ordeal, but it really isn’t.

 

[sdegutis]

You do realize that you just need to get your marriage blessed by the Priest, right? It’s like going through the whole ceremony, again, but it’s not all that difficult to do. It’s not like you have to send out invitations or have a reception. All you really need is a couple of witnesses (best man, maid of honor).

My husband and I (when we were young and very foolish) let some friends talk us into ‘eloping’, by getting married by a JP. I thought my mother-in-law was going to kill me when we told her what we did (if looks could kill). She was a very devout Catholic, and she had every right to be upset with us (at the time, she worked in the church rectory as the Priests’ cook ). Heck, I really didn’t like it, either. Neither one of us even felt as if we were married, at all. So, we had to go through the announcement of the Bands, etc., which took a couple of weeks, but when it was all done, we knew we were finally married, for real. My point is, you’re making it out to be some kind of horrendous ordeal, but it really isn’t.

That same thing happened with me and my wife. We got married civilly before we became religious. When we became Catholic, we just had to get it blessed. It was a small thing, but we invited our friends anyway and took it as a chance to renew our vows. My wife was very upset at first that we had to do it (she said that we already were married in the eyes of God) but neither of us saw any problem with going through with it since it was a one-time small thing. I’m glad my wife eventually got over it, although she wasn’t that mad about it in the first place, only a little. But we just got it over with, and made the best of it, and we even have a picture of us with the priest and our children, on our piano now

 

[lonegreywolf20]

You do realize that you just need to get your marriage blessed by the Priest, right? It’s like going through the whole ceremony, again, but it’s not all that difficult to do. It’s not like you have to send out invitations or have a reception. All you really need is a couple of witnesses (best man, maid of honor).

We do not need to do anything more to make us married. We were and are married in God’s eyes. We don’t need a priest to bless what is already been blessed by God.

 

[sdegutis]

We do not need to do anything more to make us married. We were and are married in God’s eyes. We don’t need a priest to bless what is already been blessed by God.

I don’t think the Church is saying that your marriage isn’t valid unless blessed by a priest. Aren’t they just saying that this ceremony is to have it recognized by the people of the Church? Kind of like how eloping still makes you married, but if you didn’t have a ceremony and invite your friends/family, it’s not really “announced” to the same extent. At least that’s what it sounds like to me, including given my (very similar to yours) marriage situation.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

I don’t think the Church is saying that your marriage isn’t valid unless blessed by a priest. Aren’t they just saying that this ceremony is to have it recognized by the people of the Church? Kind of like how eloping still makes you married, but if you didn’t have a ceremony and invite your friends/family, it’s not really “announced” to the same extent. At least that’s what it sounds like to me, including given my (very similar to yours) marriage situation.

Why would we even have to do that? We are married, nothing that we do will make us any more married than we are now. There is nothing more we need to do. That includes having it recognized by the people of the church. We do not have to do that.

 

[sdegutis]

Why would we even have to do that? We are married, nothing that we do will make us any more married than we are now. There is nothing more we need to do. That includes having it recognized by the people of the church. We do not have to do that.

Please know that I’m not saying you have to do that. Just offering my interpretation on this situation, given our similarly yours and mine are.

The way I understand it, getting married is both an individual act and a communal act. You do it individually (two people) and within a community (family, friends). That way, not only are you married, but everyone in the community can celebrate your special bond with you.

So, seeing as how the Church is supposed to represent a new community of God, with tighter-knit bonds than even family (c.f. Matthew 10:35), it makes very much sense that the Church wants you to get married in “everyone’s” presence. But the Church also has a way of doing things very symbolically. Because it would be really impractical to invite every single member of the Catholic Church to your wedding, even though we’re all part of the same Church, the one Body. Therefore they have a priest and a few witnesses stand by to “symbolically represent” the whole Church, and therefore the whole church is there and “present” at your wedding!

These are just my understandings of it.

 

[Verka]

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you telling me that the Church allowed divorce until the schism? Please provide evidence for this.

Certainly,The 7th canon of the Council of Neocaesarea (c. 315) speaks of second marriages. They are undesirable, as the pre-schism church desires lifelong marriage, but it realized this was both impractical and at times impossible. It also recognizes a need for mercy because the couple is “worthy of penance” and should be given an indulgence to continue.

We can also look at some histroy written, I’ll quote some from Professor Edwin Oliver James Marriage Customs Through the Ages (NY: Collier Books, 1965, pp. 130)

---

Thus, between the time of Constantine (314) and that of Justinian (527) facilities began to be given not only for the putting away of a wife or husband for adultery (porneia) which was a generally accepted practice in the pre-Constantine period, but for remarriage after divorce, at any rate in the case of the innocent party …

---

So…Two pre schism emperors and a council. Hows that for tradition? I can get more but that’s what I can remember off the top of my head and have to hand right now.

 

[JaKael02]

As I said, I have left the Catholicism never to return. If God does truly know my heart, than me being out of the Catholic church is fine by Him since he knows the reason for why I left.

I am going to ask that no one else reply with I am leaving the truth or try and get me to rejoin the Catholic church. My mind is made up and I have made the best choice for my family and I.

God bless you and your new Church home. May it be grace filled for you and your family.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

The only church that I have come across that requires you be married in their church is the Catholic church. I am not saying that there aren’t others, however, if I find another, I will stay away from it.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

As I said to someone else, it wasn’t my intent to insult. I used “protected” as a way to get a point across about this particular sub-forum.

I am the only one from my side of the family that has walked away from Catholicism. I have nothing against Catholics are Catholicism, it’s just not for me and my wife feels the same.