Church music

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I’m sorry you’re so miserable.
I’ll say a prayer for you.
 
Bad music at Mass won’t be stopped unless the bishops do something about. In other words, nothing will be done for a while. 😃
 
Came across this article in my newsfeed on facebook a few days ago. Personally, I think the author is pretty much spot on.
 
Bad music at Mass won’t be stopped unless the bishops do something about. In other words, nothing will be done for a while. 😃
Basically, yes. Unfortunately. Fr. Z wrote something about this very article after it came out and that is basically what he said too - there is only so much we can do (that is, not much) until bishops actually come out supporting a change.
 
As a young middle-class Catholic in the south-east (just) of England, I can testify to the counter-culturalism - although sometimes I do wonder if it’s just a sort of Catholic hipsterdom rather than something more profound. Either way it’s expressed in a lot more than just musical preferences.

And as a student of history whose BA thesis was on Anglican church music in the 1840s and '50s, I can also testify that complaints about “modern music ruining our church” are quite definitely nothing new. While I don’t have my notes to hand and just the bits I pulled to use in the dissertation (sadly, as it would have been wonderful and hilarious to quote in full), one example of exactly the same sort of complaint was published in 1843. The author was interested in Anglican churches but also pointed out, and contemporary accounts bear him out, that it could be applied to any denomination. Anyway he pointed out things like:
There will always be composers of popular songs which speak of the age in which they are written. Such composers are always to closely be followed [Dr Druitt was so incensed he was prepared to publish split infinitives] by a band of flimsy song-writers who so poorly set their texts which speak of a one-dimensional Saviour; whose trash is in unnecessary abundance spawned daily and then proceeds to perish utterly before it sees a year of sunsets.
and
When we hear such *vapid nonsense *in a Church, then there is something less reverent than there should be.
The author of the pamphlet then went on to decry the use of “popular tunes” (which in his context meant patriotic-folk tunes like ‘British Grenadier’, but today would include the sort of thing that wouldn’t be too out of place in a Taylor Swift concert, not that I have anything against her/her music), and “popular composers”.

He then attacked the recently-published ‘Stabat Mater’ by Rossini with something along the lines of it “beginning in tolerable purity before suddenly degenerating into bizarre theatrical roulades”.

On the idea that 'the Devil ought not to have any music for himself", he rejoindered with “the quality of the ‘music’ I do not question. But sure a more appropriate spirit might have suggested that what is fit for the Devil’s service is hardly also fit for our Creator.”

His final “zinger”, after (as the article you linked does), castigating the sheer un-singable-ness of the music then customarily in use even for hymns, is worth quoting just because people in the 21st century don’t use such wonderfully evocative language much:
It is impossible to find words degrading enough to express its most irredeemable and insufferable meanness and vulgarity.
My point, apart from revisiting my well-trodden academic ground, is, that while the (subjective) quality of the music used throughout England, was poor - as was the objective quality of the singing even from “professional” college or cathedral choirs - it then got very much better, and whether or not the church-singing of our grandparents, parents, or great-grandparents, was “best”, there was undoubtedly in the century following the publication of the tract I quoted above, a marked improvement in both.

So really, while I agree with the article’s analysis of the music often in use except in very traditional and/or wealthy parishes, I don’t entirely fear for our musical future, whether Catholic or Anglican.
 
Bad music at Mass won’t be stopped unless the bishops do something about. In other words, nothing will be done for a while. 😃
I disagree. The music at your parish is something that parishioners have the most control over. I started a men’s Gregorian chant group 12 years ago, and we’ve enjoyed great success.

If the parishioners want it, they’ll welcome singers who band together to provide good music.
 
Basically, yes. Unfortunately. Fr. Z wrote something about this very article after it came out and that is basically what he said too - there is only so much we can do (that is, not much) until bishops actually come out supporting a change.
Indeed. Parishioners can take their own initiative, but without the backing of the bishops all it takes is a few stubborn people who view a return to the musical patrimony of the Church as “backwards” and the whole thing stalls out. I’ve seen it happen several times over the years at the parish I attended growing up.
 
I disagree. The music at your parish is something that parishioners have the most control over. I started a men’s Gregorian chant group 12 years ago, and we’ve enjoyed great success.

If the parishioners want it, they’ll welcome singers who band together to provide good music.
You’re definitely right, Windmill, those who are capable musicians certainly should, at least as much as they have time for, at least attempt to start a sacred music renewal within their own parish. In my opinion one can never go wrong trying to do this in their own parish, but R_H_Benson’s below post rings true to me in this regard. Your comment of “if the parishioners want it” is key - a lot of times, parishioners won’t want it, which is why many priests will not be willing to allow a big change.

We have to get around the idea that everything is acceptable, and that anything goes as long as one has good intentions. To some extent, that’s not completely false, but our Church is suffering today from a lack of striving for ideals, and as long as bishops as a whole do not combat this erroneous idea with regards to sacred music (and the whole Liturgy, for that matter), then there will be no large scale change as there should be. I understand that bishops feel there are more pressing matters, and so be it. But I have hope that in the future, more bishops will be open to delving into the matter of sacred music…And this will only happen if priests are formed as they should be in the area of sacred music. I think that some seminaries are beginning to improve in this regard, but as far as I can tell, it is not a widespread thing (yet).
Indeed. Parishioners can take their own initiative, but without the backing of the bishops all it takes is a few stubborn people who view a return to the musical patrimony of the Church as “backwards” and the whole thing stalls out. I’ve seen it happen several times over the years at the parish I attended growing up.
This is a story from “long ago” in the 80s, but when my parents moved to my current hometown, they along with a few like-minded people tried to get chant going at the parish. And they were succeeding to some extent, and weren’t getting any pushback from the pastor, but some parishioners were just so nasty about it to them, and complaining to the pastor so much, that they eventually just couldn’t do it anymore.
 
No, you are not alone. I am in my 50’s and love chant as does my Protestant friend who reintroduced it to me. You can enjoy GCM-Good Catholic Music on the internet from places like Pandora for free. I know several 30-something year olds who are either in Catholic schola cantorum or have converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, where the parishes have large numbers of young people singing liturgical hymns acapella. You close your eyes and you are in heaven. My parish has very simple melodies, being Syriac Eastern Catholic, a good place for me to heal. I do frequent a Russian Eastern Orthodox parish where my soul is uplifted to heaven with their choir voices.

I do not want to provide a link because that is what causes threads to disappear or be locked. There are those that do not want us to remember.
 
There is no bad music, just inappropriate music for the situation.

Music directors need to consider how non-professionals with no training, who have never heard the song, are going to make it sound when they attempt to sing it.

Any song can sound great if Elvis or Perry Como is belting it out, simpler tunes with a much narrower range are just more appropriate for most church congregations.
 
I found this line difficult to swallow:

“…one of those numbers that puts the congregation in persona Christi by asking them to pretend that they’re Jesus.”

I feel the same way about bad writing as the author does about what he considers bad music. In addition to the line above, the whole article seemed a little haughty and high-brow. Perhaps the parish he visited tended more to the poor than those with season tickets for the opera and symphony. Priests are allowed to celebrate Mass in a way suitable for the locale and the people. This priest may not have anyone there that capitalizes the “Second Viennese School.”
 
I found this line difficult to swallow:

“…one of those numbers that puts the congregation in persona Christi by asking them to pretend that they’re Jesus.”

I feel the same way about bad writing as the author does about what he considers bad music. In addition to the line above, the whole article seemed a little haughty and high-brow. Perhaps the parish he visited tended more to the poor than those with season tickets for the opera and symphony. Priests are allowed to celebrate Mass in a way suitable for the locale and the people. This priest may not have anyone there that capitalizes the “Second Viennese School.”
Exactly. You’d think, that with SO MANY liturgy experts in the pews, that the music would be universally great. :rolleyes:
The fact remains, if the Pastor doesn’t hire someone to lead said WONDERFUL music (always a matter of opinion) it ain’t happenin. 😊
I mentioned at the last place I applied for Music Directorship, that I could very ably start a Schola, have at least one all Chant Mass, and well as lead a traditional choir, a children’s choir, and a more contemporary choir if they so needed any of the above. The Choir representatives were HORRIFED, and the pastor who was only mildly interested in chant said he didn’t want all of them to quit, sooooooo no dice.
It’s the pastor that drives these decision folks. Stop taking pot shoots at the (predominantly volunteer) musicians.
 
Honestly, I have to say that I find the Catholic hymns to be sub par. In my church, the hymns are much better and are executed much better. Also, I have noticed that there seems to be more singing by the congregants in my church versus the Catholic Church.

And before anyone asks, yes, I have been to Catholic Mass many times. I go every Sunday.
 
I sing in our choir for 10:30 Mass and play piano at our monthly family Mass. The best received songs for the former are almost always the classics, and the best received for the latter are more contemporary songs. Each have their place… that said, I do not enjoy, relish, or feel comfortable singing lyrics where I am, as one poster put it, *in the person of Christ. *

And… IMHO… while there are some marginal old hymns… they are ONLY marginal.

The bad new stuff is just BAD. http://fun.resplace.net/Emoticons/Angry/BangHead.gif.pagespeed.ce.bNvjStLaEs.gif
 
Exactly. You’d think, that with SO MANY liturgy experts in the pews, that the music would be universally great. :rolleyes:
The fact remains, if the Pastor doesn’t hire someone to lead said WONDERFUL music (always a matter of opinion) it ain’t happenin. 😊
Do you deny that beauty is objective?
 
Honestly, I have to say that I find the Catholic hymns to be sub par. In my church, the hymns are much better and are executed much better. Also, I have noticed that there seems to be more singing by the congregants in my church versus the Catholic Church.

And before anyone asks, yes, I have been to Catholic Mass many times. I go every Sunday.
Sub par is good in golf.

On a more serious note…
The ideal in the Roman Rite is chant not hymnody.
 
Two words: rap music 😃
Rap with a silent ‘c’ ?? :rolleyes:
Honestly, I have to say that I find the Catholic hymns to be sub par. In my church, the hymns are much better and are executed much better. Also, I have noticed that there seems to be more singing by the congregants in my church versus the Catholic Church.

And before anyone asks, yes, I have been to Catholic Mass many times. I go every Sunday.
Speaking as a former Anglican, G_L, I absolutely agree, and it seems long experience of both churches on my side of the Atlantic matches up with some of yours on your side! Not saying the hymns are better (there is plenty of Anglican dross as well), but perhaps the level of congregational enthusiasm in singing even the less-than-stellar numbers is what’s so noticeable. A bad hymn sung with feeling and/or gusto sounds and feels very much less bad than a bad one sung miserably.
 
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