J
Journey_Well
Guest
Simple question: Should church musicians be paid for playing at church? Why or why not? If so, what is a fair salary?
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It may be a simple question but the answer is much more complicated.
I say it depends on what you want from the Church musician and if a parish has the funds in its budget.
On the one extreme, a parish that struggles to buy sacramental wine and communion wafers and worries that the leaky roof might collapse during Mass probably ought not be trying to pay musicians. On the other extreme, a well-off parish with a nice pipe organ really ought to be enhancing its liturgies with skilled musicians. A competent organist and/or music director is probably spending at least 20 hours a week preparing and practicing for Sunday. (And that’s after having spent years paying to learn his/her craft.) That goes a bit beyond being a volunteer.
As for what to pay… That’s going to depend on regional norms as well as supply and demand. Perhaps some musicians will chime in on what’s usual for a given area.
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pianistclare
Guest
Ugh. Sore subject.
Regional norms. Meh.
People love to complain that the music is not to the Church’s standards. I’ve been a parish musician for most of my life. Have never once, never ONCE made a living wage.
I’ve spend hours teaching 4 part choirs, supervising many musicians, ordering music, seeing to it that the licensing is paid on time for the hymns, conducting rehearsals, taking time off from second and third jobs to come in and play a funeral which no one ever compensated me for, neither church, nor family. Have had the Archbishop himself declare that our choir was the best around.
But the finance committee and the pastor believed that God gave me the talent, so I was supposed to work for little more than free.
I STILL get emails and calls from parishioners wanting to know why I left. They miss the music. They keep hiring part time music majors of other faiths who don’t know liturgy, and play the wrong hymns at the wrong times.
Unless you are fortunate enough to get a job at a cathedral or a mega-parish, forget it.
Everyone wants the best for nothing.
People think if you can carry a tune or play any keyboard instrument, you’ll do just fine.
The Church is not really interested in fine music.
Not around here, anyway.
Church musicians should be paid. They should be paid a living wage. During Lent, the Easter Season, Advent and Christmas seasons…we work our tails off.
Oh, and the music doesn’t stop when others go on summer vacation.
When my husband died, people had the nerve to complain to the pastor that there was no music ONE SUNDAY.
I missed one Sunday in 16 YEARS.
I miss doing music for the Church. I hate that the music is awful. But it’s not a priority.
Really it’s not. It’s an afterthought. Get a volunteer. Singing and playing is easy for the gifted.
uh-huh.
Right
Regional norms. Meh.
People love to complain that the music is not to the Church’s standards. I’ve been a parish musician for most of my life. Have never once, never ONCE made a living wage.
I’ve spend hours teaching 4 part choirs, supervising many musicians, ordering music, seeing to it that the licensing is paid on time for the hymns, conducting rehearsals, taking time off from second and third jobs to come in and play a funeral which no one ever compensated me for, neither church, nor family. Have had the Archbishop himself declare that our choir was the best around.
But the finance committee and the pastor believed that God gave me the talent, so I was supposed to work for little more than free.
I STILL get emails and calls from parishioners wanting to know why I left. They miss the music. They keep hiring part time music majors of other faiths who don’t know liturgy, and play the wrong hymns at the wrong times.
Unless you are fortunate enough to get a job at a cathedral or a mega-parish, forget it.
Everyone wants the best for nothing.
People think if you can carry a tune or play any keyboard instrument, you’ll do just fine.
The Church is not really interested in fine music.
Not around here, anyway.
Church musicians should be paid. They should be paid a living wage. During Lent, the Easter Season, Advent and Christmas seasons…we work our tails off.
Oh, and the music doesn’t stop when others go on summer vacation.
When my husband died, people had the nerve to complain to the pastor that there was no music ONE SUNDAY.
I missed one Sunday in 16 YEARS.
I miss doing music for the Church. I hate that the music is awful. But it’s not a priority.
Really it’s not. It’s an afterthought. Get a volunteer. Singing and playing is easy for the gifted.
uh-huh.
Right
E
Elizium23
Guest
G
Gertabelle
Guest
That’s great. But the Cathedral and the Bishop aren’t the ones controlling the music ministries at the local parishes
For those of us who attend parishes that are not the Cathedral parish, we’re at the mercy of the current pastor, right?Too bad for everyone sitting in the pew, I’d say.
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pianistclare
Guest
How charitable. Thank you so much.
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pianistclare
Guest
Yup.That’s great. But the Cathedral and the Bishop aren’t the ones controlling the music ministries at the local parishes
Too bad for everyone sitting in the pew, I’d say.
God bless you Gert.
M
midori
Guest
The Catholic churches have a bad reputation for not living up to the “the laborer is worth his wage” bit.
I have people in my family who cantor for free, who participate in the choir for free, who play accompaniment for free. It involves commitment and long hours of rehearsal, but they do it for love of God and support of their church.
I also have people in my family who are professional musicians. They went to school, got multiple degrees in music, got plenty of real-world experience, and have worked at a variety of different institutions as organists/music directors/whatevers-- the Baptists, the Methodists, even the occasional Synagogue. From conversation, the Protestants are better at taking care of their musicians than the Catholics are, but I still remember them having to juggle multiple churches in order to cobble together a living wage between them all.
One issue that comes up, for example, is “What do you expect if you pay a salary of $x?” For part-time pay, you get a part-time worker. But then you start asking them to cover x, y, and z as well… but you don’t increase the salary to cover the extra responsibilities… it gets stressful, because it’s not in accord with the original contract, but people don’t like to not be a team player.
It has soured more than one musician on working for the church, because they don’t get treated like the professional they are. More than one musician has had to take a sabbatical from church music ministry and find other employment. Some of them recover enough to delve back into those waters again— some of them recover enough to dabble here and there— some of them are soured permanently, and their talents are lost to the Church.
I have people in my family who cantor for free, who participate in the choir for free, who play accompaniment for free. It involves commitment and long hours of rehearsal, but they do it for love of God and support of their church.
I also have people in my family who are professional musicians. They went to school, got multiple degrees in music, got plenty of real-world experience, and have worked at a variety of different institutions as organists/music directors/whatevers-- the Baptists, the Methodists, even the occasional Synagogue. From conversation, the Protestants are better at taking care of their musicians than the Catholics are, but I still remember them having to juggle multiple churches in order to cobble together a living wage between them all.
One issue that comes up, for example, is “What do you expect if you pay a salary of $x?” For part-time pay, you get a part-time worker. But then you start asking them to cover x, y, and z as well… but you don’t increase the salary to cover the extra responsibilities… it gets stressful, because it’s not in accord with the original contract, but people don’t like to not be a team player.
It has soured more than one musician on working for the church, because they don’t get treated like the professional they are. More than one musician has had to take a sabbatical from church music ministry and find other employment. Some of them recover enough to delve back into those waters again— some of them recover enough to dabble here and there— some of them are soured permanently, and their talents are lost to the Church.
Yep. Yep. And yep. It’s also been my observation that the better paid Catholic Church musicians spend a lot of time networking with other Catholic musicians (both sacred and secular), diocesan liturgists, music professors, seminary instructors, and the like.
I’d say the typical parish is not interested in fine music rather than the Church. But yeah.
I agree. But I’m not holding my breath until it happens.
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pianistclare
Guest
Funny you should say that. When I lost my real job at the Catholic school (they decided they didn’t need a Director of Religious Education
) the Finance chair of the parish said to me : Well, all you do is play the piano/organ at Mass. What sort of salary are you expecting?He had no clue what I did.
I Am still a DRE at a parish, but I play for free for the Spanish Choir.
I just have to do music. They sort of count on that.
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pianistclare
Guest
LOL. I once told a dear priest friend that if he ever preached on Social Justice I’d hurl a green hymnal out of the loft. He cracked up.
The parishes sometimes love their musicians…they just don’t think we need a salary. I had one pastor tell me not to “bother” to play for Holy Days of Obligation because he wouldn’t pay for them. But he KNEW I would 't just sit there in the pew and refuse to pay. I wouldn’t do that, and I’d be stared down and accosted by the congregation anyway.
A lot of what people do, they do because they love the Church.
B
bobballen_18
Guest
Individuals who are qualified should certainly be paid a living wage, and especially those who have done the appropriate studies and wish to aid the Church in attaining her ideals for Sacred Music.
It’s just a matter of fact that right now, most of the Church (or rather, as a couple people pointed out, most individual parishes don’t care one way or another, or if they do care about the music at Mass, it’s not necessarily with the Church’s ideals and preferences in mind for at least down the road. So due to the combination of these two attitudes - “everything goes” with regards to music, and “music isn’t that big of a deal” - both of which are incorrect - parishes don’t care to pay for music. And that is their loss, and subsequently the Church’s loss as a whole.
Musicians who have devoted tons of time toward perfecting/improving their musical skills deserve to be paid a reasonable amount. I understand the dilemma many Church musicians have, but working for no pay actually hurts Church musicians, because it continues to support that idea that “music is no big deal” and that it’s not that much work. We should work to change these attitudes, and I personally suggest we pray that in the coming decades, supporting appropriate Church music in any way will become a higher priority in the Church.
It’s just a matter of fact that right now, most of the Church (or rather, as a couple people pointed out, most individual parishes don’t care one way or another, or if they do care about the music at Mass, it’s not necessarily with the Church’s ideals and preferences in mind for at least down the road. So due to the combination of these two attitudes - “everything goes” with regards to music, and “music isn’t that big of a deal” - both of which are incorrect - parishes don’t care to pay for music. And that is their loss, and subsequently the Church’s loss as a whole.
Musicians who have devoted tons of time toward perfecting/improving their musical skills deserve to be paid a reasonable amount. I understand the dilemma many Church musicians have, but working for no pay actually hurts Church musicians, because it continues to support that idea that “music is no big deal” and that it’s not that much work. We should work to change these attitudes, and I personally suggest we pray that in the coming decades, supporting appropriate Church music in any way will become a higher priority in the Church.
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Gertabelle
Guest
I’ve been a paid musician and I’ve been a volunteer.
I’ve been a singer, a choir director, and an accompanist.
Currently, I’m an organist and share the responsibility for music at one of the Sunday masses. I am not paid for what I do, but we’ve lost four of our best and most knowledgeable (trained) singers who got offered paid jobs as directors at other parishes. This has left us with the “children’s choir” with our regular members between the ages of 10 and 20. There are two 22-year-olds who have jobs at other parishes and can’t commit for every Sunday.
Why do I do this for free? Two reasons:
I’ve been a singer, a choir director, and an accompanist.
Currently, I’m an organist and share the responsibility for music at one of the Sunday masses. I am not paid for what I do, but we’ve lost four of our best and most knowledgeable (trained) singers who got offered paid jobs as directors at other parishes. This has left us with the “children’s choir” with our regular members between the ages of 10 and 20. There are two 22-year-olds who have jobs at other parishes and can’t commit for every Sunday.
Why do I do this for free? Two reasons:
- I care deeply about what music is used at mass, so I accepted a role where I had the responsibility to choose the music.
- My son attends the parish school, and my role in music ministry makes it perfectly clear that I am indeed a member of the parish, and eligible for the $1000 “discount” in tuition.
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pianistclare
Guest
I’ll wager there are hundreds of musicians just like you. God bless you.
I remember working at the parish around 25 hours a week doing things related to music ministry…including environment, which they threw into my job description although it had nothing to do with music. They called me the Liturgist. Ok, fine. Anyway, at the same time, for 10 years, I worked full time at the Catholic school 30 miles from my house and 55 miles from the parish. The auditors (internal) noted on their report that one of the institutions had to pay me overtime. The school said the church put me over 40 hours, so I was their problem. The parish said that I was there first, so the school put me over and I was their problem.
Nobody ever solved the problem. Nobody ever paid overtime. They each claimed to be two different “companies”.
For a while, I was allowed to teach piano lessons at the school. That’s how I made ends meet. When we got a new principal, I was told that I had to have another teacher in the room with me for all my lessons (who could I get to agree to that?) and that I needed to take out a million dollar liability policy making the school the beneficiary…you know, because I might abuse a kid.
So I lost income there. My students were taken from me.Today, you know what I have in my retirement fund?
$45 grand. After about 25 years in.
We do the music because we’re musicians. And we’re Catholic.
We love our church and we love the music.
But it’s HARD.
It’s really hard.
If one more person says to me “but your reward will be great in heaven”
I think I’m going to commit a really big sin.
S
Sunbreak
Guest
I think it depends on the parish whether musicians should be paid or not. In my small parish, I don’t think we could afford it. So, there is only music played at half the weekend Masses - congregation sings without any music at the others. There’s a volunteer organist for one of the Masses who really doesn’t play this particular instrument except for the Mass. There’s another volunteer organist and her husband with a beautiful voice who leads the choir at one Mass and they have been doing it for 30 years for free. I think that if musicians aren’t going to be paid they should at least be given something for Christmas or occasionally to show some appreciation.
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ProVobis
Guest
Does your parish ever do like piano or organ recitals on say, Sunday afternoons? I don’t think one sees too many of those anymore but I remember times when Holy Name Cathedral and a lot of Protestant churches would be holding such events to help promote church music. And on occasional basis, they could be very well attended.For a while, I was allowed to teach piano lessons at the school. That’s how I made ends meet. When we got a new principal, I was told that I had to have another teacher in the room with me for all my lessons (who could I get to agree to that?) and that I needed to take out a million dollar liability policy making the school the beneficiary…you know, because I might abuse a kid.
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pianistclare
Guest
Nope. Not permitted.
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Elizium23
Guest
Failure to invest in liturgical music is a failure in stewardship. Families can afford to pull up in the parish parking lot in Lexuses and Mercedes and yet they might drop $10 in the plate every week. Perhaps if a culture of tithing were encouraged among Catholics in parishes and in general, parishes could afford to do better things, such as investing in a real pipe organ for the loft, and paying musicians a living wage commensurate with their contributions and talents.
I am good friends with one of our former music directors, and I was at his home one Thanksgiving. He is a non-observant Lutheran, but I don’t hold that against him. He showed me a brochure from a Lutheran parish in the Midwest where his parents live, and it was for the inaugural concert of their new pipe organ. It extolled all the virtues of this organ and explained in painstaking detail all the stops, ranks, and manuals it featured. The resident organist played complex classical pieces for the edification and entertainment of the faithful. This was all laid out in a glossy, color four-page brochure full of photos, not a photocopied B&W worship aid. This had “professional” and “deep pockets” written all over it, yet it was for some podunk parish in a small town that nobody has ever heard of before!
Now if one community can get together and agree that music is so important that they can make that kind of investment, anyone can do it. Especially Catholics. There is simply a disconnect and a failure to understand the importance of faithful stewardship in a typical parish setting.
I am good friends with one of our former music directors, and I was at his home one Thanksgiving. He is a non-observant Lutheran, but I don’t hold that against him. He showed me a brochure from a Lutheran parish in the Midwest where his parents live, and it was for the inaugural concert of their new pipe organ. It extolled all the virtues of this organ and explained in painstaking detail all the stops, ranks, and manuals it featured. The resident organist played complex classical pieces for the edification and entertainment of the faithful. This was all laid out in a glossy, color four-page brochure full of photos, not a photocopied B&W worship aid. This had “professional” and “deep pockets” written all over it, yet it was for some podunk parish in a small town that nobody has ever heard of before!
Now if one community can get together and agree that music is so important that they can make that kind of investment, anyone can do it. Especially Catholics. There is simply a disconnect and a failure to understand the importance of faithful stewardship in a typical parish setting.
H
Hmgbrd
Guest
Yes I agree. First class church musicians are a rare breed and worth their weight in gold. Just the knowledge, discipline and development of their talent is worth remuneration. Their dedication and giving of self is largely underrated. It is the knowledgeable research, preparation and rehearsal time that most people overlook or don’t even know about that must be invested achieve the right results on Sunday. God bless them. The quality of sacred music can be a source of Divine inspiration and great beauty but it requires sacrifice and discipline to achieve that level and that means time.
It reminds me of the quote, " you cannot love what you do not know" and unfortunately many parishes don’t realize what they are missing. As you can read above, some parishes are left to their own devices trying to utilize what comes through the door and then wonder why many don’t appreciate the result. Would you hire a tailor to repair the plumbing and then wonder why the plumbing is still broken?
When I think of the great masters of the past and the masterpieces that they wrote that are timeless. Handel’s Messiah, the pathos of the Passions of Bach, masses and requiems by Verdi, Faure, Brahms, Schubert, Mozart, and Beethoven inspire even today. They uplift and feed us spiritually. They give insight into the Gospel and life of our Lord just as they were meant to do when they were written.
Only with first class musicians can we recreate these masterpieces. And they deserve to be paid for their service.
Here are some quotes that I think are worthy of mentioning.
St. Basil the Great (4th century)
“What did the Holy Spirit do when he saw that the human race was not led easily to virtue and that, due to
our penchant for pleasure we gave little heed to an upright life? He mixed sweetness of melody and
doctrine so that inadvertently we would absorb the benefit of the words through gentleness and ease of
hearing, just as clever physicians frequently smear the cup with honey when giving the fastidious some
rather bitter medicine to drink. Thus he contrived for us these harmonious psalm tunes, so that those who
are children in actual age as well as those who are young in behavior, while appearing only to sing would
in reality be training their souls.”
St. Thomas Aquinas (13th century)
“Now it is evident that the human soul is moved in various ways according to various melodies of sound,
as Aristotle states (Polit. viii, 5), and also Boethius (De Musica, prologue). Hence the use of music in the
divine praises is a salutary institution, that the souls of the faint-hearted may be the more incited to
devotion. Wherefore Augustine say (Confess. x, 33): ‘I am inclined to approve of the usage of singing in
the church, that so by the delight of the ears the faint-hearted may rise to the feeling of devotion;’ and he
says of himself (Confess. ix, 6): ‘I wept in Thy hymns and canticles, touched to the quick by the voices of
Thy sweet-attuned Church.’” S. t. II II 91.2
Vatican II
“The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of
any other art. The main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as a combination of sacred music and words,
it forms a necessary or integral part of the solemn liturgy. Sacred Scripture, indeed has bestowed praise
upon sacred song. So have the Fathers of the Church and the Roman pontiffs who in more recent times,
led by St. Pius X, have explained more precisely the ministerial function exercised by sacred music in the
service of the Lord.” Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, #112.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
Sorry you had such a bad experience. You must have felt like you were taken for granted. I can’t believe they complained the one Sunday there was no music and you had lost your husband.
That is really terrible… It sounds like you had a full plate doing everything and not being appreciated for what you did.
I think church musicians should be paid. They make a commitment every weekend and I know Christmas and Easter must be brutal. They definitely work hard!
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