LOL! That’s SUBSISTS – not SUBSIDES! OK?This is something I get confused about often, the 2nd Vatican Council document *Lumen Gentium’s *definition that the one Church of Christ subsides in the Catholic Church, whereas before the teaching was expressed in the words that the one Church of Christ is the Catholic Church. If anyone can explain exactly how the new terminology regarding the Church is supposed to be understood, I’d greatly appreciate it.
What I mean is, what is the distinction between the “true Church of Christ” and the Catholic Church?LOL! That’s SUBSISTS – not SUBSIDES! OK?
The true Church of Christ stands in the Catholic Church.
Thank you, that’s helpful. I can see how this definition would apply in the case of the Eastern orthodox churches and any other church that’s retained valid holy orders, but what about in protestant churches, or non-Christian communities?Subsists is not new terminology for the definition of the Church in relation to it being the Church of Christ.
Subsists is a highly technically term that pretty much means that that which subsists in another thing is found completely in that thing but can also be found to a lesser degree extending beyond that thing.
This is just a way to express how the Church of Christ is the Catholic Church but that the power of that same Church extends beyond it in some way.
Go to the link that follows, scroll down and read to your heart’s delight. There are quotes from several eminent Catholics on the very question you ask:This is something I get confused about often, the 2nd Vatican Council document *Lumen Gentium’s *definition that the one Church of Christ subsides in the Catholic Church, whereas before the teaching was expressed in the words that the one Church of Christ is the Catholic Church. If anyone can explain exactly how the new terminology regarding the Church is supposed to be understood, I’d greatly appreciate it.
You’re on the right track here. The Church represents the fullness of revealed Truth. And while some of that truth can exist in protestant churches and even non-Christian communities, its a matter of degree. Another way to look at it is, the farther away these other communities are from the Truth as taught by the Church, the less of it they have. The benchmark is the teaching of the Church established by Christ. From a Catholic perspective, the less we have in common in teachings on faith and morals, the less truth is held by those communities and denominations.Thank you, that’s helpful. I can see how this definition would apply in the case of the Eastern orthodox churches and any other church that’s retained valid holy orders, but what about in protestant churches, or non-Christian communities?
You got it. They belong to it in an imperfect way to the level that they agree with the Church teaching. The only thing I would add is how you defined the Church in your first sentence. Its just not those of us here on earth (the Church Militant), but Christ, and all the angels and saints in heaven(the Church Triumphant) and those awaiting heaven that have gone before us (in purgatory). The entire Mystical Body of Christ is our Church family.Thanks to all who’ve replied so far. Correct me then if this understanding is wrong:
The group of bishops, priests, deacons and laypeople which makes up the Roman Catholic Church is the one, true Church of Christ, yet some of those who are not in formal communion with this group of people can belong to it in some imperfect way. For instance, validly-baptized protestants.
Look under ‘church’ in the index of The Catechism of the Catholic Church.Thanks to all who’ve replied so far. Correct me then if this understanding is wrong:
The group of bishops, priests, deacons and laypeople which makes up the Roman Catholic Church is the one, true Church of Christ, yet some of those who are not in formal communion with this group of people can belong to it in some imperfect way. For instance, validly-baptized protestants.