Church of Christ teaches Jesus had siblings?

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empantarhei said:
From Radical:
consider John 20:
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As a sola scriptura advocate, (which I am assuming you are) I completely understand why you folks believe what you believe, regarding Mary. It cannot be proven, definitively, one way or the other, from scripture alone. Thank God Jesus left us with His church and the Holy Spirit to Guide her, as the bride of Christ and mystical Body of which Jesus is the head and Savior. 👍
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For starters, salvation comes from our Savior Jesus the Christ alone; Mary remaining a virgin has nothing to do with salvation. :confused:
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Moreover, by the same logic, the practice of sola scriptura cannot be “read or proved from scripture” and therefore should not be an article of your faith, unless you embrace some sort of tradition that speaks of sola scriptura?
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Correct; Mary remaining a virgin has nothing to do with salvation. My point. Mary’s anatomy has nothing to do with salvation, either.
“For starters, salvation comes from our Savior Jesus the Christ alone”
Didn’t say otherwise, and Amen to that…
 
empantarhei said:
Correct; Mary remaining a virgin has nothing to do with salvation. My point. Mary’s anatomy has nothing to do with salvation, either.
“For starters, salvation comes from our Savior Jesus the Christ alone”
Didn’t say otherwise, and Amen to that…
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You are right, Catholics do not believe that Mary’s IC has anything to do with the salvation of souls.👍 I am surprised that you were unaware of this. Did someone tell you that Mary"s IC (or any teaching related to our blessed mother Mary) had something to do with our salvation? :confused::eek:
 
empantarhei said:
Correct; Mary remaining a virgin has nothing to do with salvation. My point. Mary’s anatomy has nothing to do with salvation, either.
“For starters, salvation comes from our Savior Jesus the Christ alone”
Didn’t say otherwise, and Amen to that…
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Empantarhei, as an aside, do you agree with the following: by the same logic, the practice of sola scriptura cannot be “read or proved from scripture” and therefore should not be an article of your faith, unless you embrace some sort of tradition that speaks of sola scriptura?
 
joe370 said:
As a sola scriptura advocate, (which I am assuming you are) I completely understand why you folks believe what you believe, regarding Mary. It cannot be proven, definitively, one way or the other, from scripture alone. Thank God Jesus left us with His church and the Holy Spirit to Guide her, as the bride of Christ and mystical Body of which Jesus is the head and Savior. 👍
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You are right, That is an assumption, and thank God Jesus left us with His church and the Holy Spirit to Guide her, as the bride of Christ and mystical Body of which Jesus is the head and Savior. 😃
 
joe370 said:
You are right, Catholics do not believe that Mary’s IC has anything to do with the salvation of souls.👍 I am surprised that you were unaware of this. Did someone tell you that Mary"s IC (or any teaching related to our blessed mother Mary) had something to do with our salvation? :confused::eek:
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I wasn’t unaware of this, and not at all.
 
I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this yet in this long thread (I didn’t read through it), but I simply cannot fathom how anyone can believe that Joseph, after discovering Mary was with child, had the intention of divorcing her (i.e., assuming she had relations with a mere human being, he had the intention of putting her away), yet after he discovers that Mary was overshadowed by GOD HIMSELF, he would have the audacity to have relations with her afterwards. I guess certain Protestants think that humans mattered more to St. Joseph than God?

I can’t wrap my head around the utter disrespect that presumes of St. Joseph. Don’t Protestants believe that St. Joseph was a holy man? If they so believe that St. Joseph was a holy man, how can they think for even one instant that after knowing that God touched her, he would himself have the audacity to have physical relations with her. Was it not understood by Jewish culture that what God has touched is holy and cannot even be handled by man?

Obviously, the earlier Protestants had a greater understanding of this than many modern Protestants. I don’t see anything biblical about the belief that Mary had other children. The belief seems based more on an imposition of modern liberal sexual standards on the original cultural context of Scripture than anything else.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this yet in this long thread (I didn’t read through it), but I simply cannot fathom how anyone can believe that Joseph, after discovering Mary was with child, had the intention of divorcing her (i.e., assuming she had relations with a mere human being, he had the intention of putting her away), yet after he discovers that Mary was overshadowed by GOD HIMSELF, he would have the audacity to have relations with her afterwards. I guess certain Protestants think that humans mattered more to St. Joseph than God?

I can’t wrap my head around the utter disrespect that presumes of St. Joseph. Don’t Protestants believe that St. Joseph was a holy man? If they so believe that St. Joseph was a holy man, how can they think for even one instant that after knowing that God touched her, he would himself have the audacity to have physical relations with her. Was it not understood by Jewish culture that what God has touched is holy and cannot even be handled by man?

Obviously, the earlier Protestants had a greater understanding of this than many modern Protestants. I don’t see anything biblical about the belief that Mary had other children. The belief seems based more on an imposition of modern liberal sexual standards on the original cultural context of Scripture than anything else.

Blessings,
Marduk
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what certain Protestants? I’ve never heard of Joseph being anything else from them. Not in my many decades of being able to notice…Again, not all Protestants believe the siblings thing…And some Protestants believe in the Eucharist as the Catholics. And I am NOT just referring to Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. And earlier Catholics had a greater understanding of a few other matters than many present day ones…
 
mardukm said:
I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this yet in this long thread (I didn’t read through it), but I simply cannot fathom how anyone can believe that Joseph, after discovering Mary was with child, had the intention of divorcing her (i.e., assuming she had relations with a mere human being, he had the intention of putting her away), yet after he discovers that Mary was overshadowed by GOD HIMSELF, he would have the audacity to have relations with her afterwards. I guess certain Protestants think that humans mattered more to St. Joseph than God?

I can’t wrap my head around the utter disrespect that presumes of St. Joseph. Don’t Protestants believe that St. Joseph was a holy man? If they so believe that St. Joseph was a holy man, how can they think for even one instant that after knowing that God touched her, he would himself have the audacity to have physical relations with her. Was it not understood by Jewish culture that what God has touched is holy and cannot even be handled by man?

Obviously, the earlier Protestants had a greater understanding of this than many modern Protestants. I don’t see anything biblical about the belief that Mary had other children. The belief seems based more on an imposition of modern liberal sexual standards on the original cultural context of Scripture than anything else.

Blessings,
Marduk
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Hey Mardukm, a couple of us have mentioned it. However, I believe that you have made a more convincing argument. 👍 The OT Ark of the Covenant is a good example, and Mary is the new Ark…They would have had an almost brother/sister kind of relationship IMHO.
 
joe370 said:
You are right, Catholics do not believe that Mary’s IC has anything to do with the salvation of souls.
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I must correct you on this, joe. The dogma of Mary’s IC does indeed have everything to do with the salvation of souls. As do all doctrines and dogmas proclaimed by the Church.

All of the teachings given to us are part of a seamless garment, and loosing one, results in loosing of the entire economy of our salvation.

Indeed, an impoverished understanding of Mary leads to an impoverished understanding of Christ. And an impoverished understanding of Christ impedes our ability to embrace the truth, which naturally affects our salvation.
 
PRmerger said:
I must correct you on this, joe. The dogma of Mary’s IC does indeed have everything to do with the salvation of souls. As do all doctrines and dogmas proclaimed by the Church.

All of the teachings given to us are part of a seamless garment, and loosing one, results in loosing of the entire economy of our salvation.

Indeed, an impoverished understanding of Mary leads to an impoverished understanding of Christ. And an impoverished understanding of Christ impedes our ability to embrace the truth, which naturally affects our salvation.
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Of course. I only meant that the sole source of our salvation comes from the Cross; no cross, no salvation. I get what you are saying, but I doubt that our protestant brothers and sister will… 🙂
 
joe370 said:
Of course. I only meant that the sole source of our salvation comes from the Cross; no cross, no salvation. I get what you are saying, but I doubt that our protestant brothers and sister will… 🙂
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Excellent! 👍
 
empantarhei said:
From Radical:
consider John 20:

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

From jrtrent:
That Mary was a virgin when she conceived and bore Christ can be read and proved in scripture; that she continued a virgin ever after that cannot be read or proved from scripture (rather, the opposite is indicated, though not provable), and thus is not an article of the Faith nor requisite or necessary for salvation.

Isn’t the bolded thought kinda the bottom line?
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No, it simply cannot be the bottom line. For do not even the demons** believe**?

[BIBLEDRB]James 2:19[/BIBLEDRB]
 
joe370 said:
Of course. I only meant that the sole source of our salvation comes from the Cross; no cross, no salvation. I get what you are saying, but I doubt that our protestant brothers and sister will… 🙂
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don’t speak for all Protestants!!
 
empantarhei said:
From Radical:
consider John 20:

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

From jrtrent:
That Mary was a virgin when she conceived and bore Christ can be read and proved in scripture; that she continued a virgin ever after that cannot be read or proved from scripture (rather, the opposite is indicated, though not provable), and thus is not an article of the Faith nor requisite or necessary for salvation.

Isn’t the bolded thought kinda the bottom line?
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PRmerger said:
No, it simply cannot be the bottom line. For do not even the demons** believe**?

[BIBLEDRB]James 2:19[/BIBLEDRB]
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perhaps what was meant from empantarhei was that belief that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. Do demons believe this?
 
cheezey said:
perhaps what was meant from empantarhei was that belief that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. Do demons believe this?
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It seems like they would which is why the demons want us to fail and end up in hell with them, away from what they lost forever. I’m just spit-balling of course; what the heck do I know about such unknowable things…
 
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