They can call it what they want, but it is not “orthodox” and not scriptural. I agree completely with Commenter that political terms such as “liberal” and “conservative” should not be used to distinguish between different lines of thought within the Church. On is either in line with Church Tradition and Scripture (orthodox) or they are not. Ordaining women, same sex marriage and active gay priests and bishops are in line with neither.
Well as I said they might say it’s a further or growing understanding of Scripture or of God but indeed they can call it what they want as can you.
No, this is worse. It compounds invalid form with invalid matter.
There is such a thing as “truth in advertising”. You are free to be married or single, but don’t say you are single, when you actually are married. That’s not “growing in further understanding”. You are free to open an evangelical outreach to try to convert Jews on campus to Christ. But don’t call it a synagogue, or your youth pastor “Rabbi”. You are free to promote your opinions pushing Fundamentalism, legal abortion, the New Age Religion, White Supremacy, or whatever Huffington Post is pushing this week. But call your agenda what it is. Don’t pretend it’s a new, alternate or renewed or modern form of Judaism, Lutheranism, Islam, or anything else; including Anglicanism. What happened in Anglicanism, especially the TEC, is that people who had mostly left the orthodox Anglican faith no longer had the integrity to leave the Church, they keep diluting it, holding onto their positions and podiums. They advertise something they no longer offer, and this still brings people in, who think they still are getting the same gospel, when they really will get the media.
Invalid subject. The matter of the sacrament of orders is the imposition of hands.
Considered. I agree for instance you don’t say you’re single if you are married. I disagree your point can be transferred to matters of faith. But I indeed gave it consideration. We’ll just have to agree to disagree and I’m okay with that.
You are very welcome.
The parable of the vine and the branches comes to mind here. The COE has severed itself from the vine and is in the process of withering. That will not happen overnight but it will happen.
Really? “Vitriol”? I think you embellish the situation. It is not that we look forward to any Anglican decline. It is we see what is occurring in the COE and expect the process to continue as it did with the original protestants.
Here is a simple truth. People come and people go. Applies to any organization. However, from wgat I have personally witnessed the people who come into the Catholic Church do so in search of the truth. It is a quest for something positive. People who leave the Catholic Church do so not for truth but for selfish reasons. They never really were Catholicand did not understand Catholicism. Poorly catechised is one way of putting it.
People will do all sorts of things but the issue is what the church teaches and whether there is any change in that teaching. The COE has certainly changed in what it teaches as have other protestant denominations. But the Catholic Church has not changed its teaching. It has formally defined certain doctrines, such as the Trinity, to add clarity so people could understand the doctrine better but no doctrine has been changed. The COE has changed doctrine. How can that be when God’s word is immutable (unchanging)?
I agree with you on this as well. The RCC is a top-down theocracy; because Bishop or Fr. So and So have strayed from the Magisterium’s teachings, does not invalidate the Magisterium’s teachings!
I should have commented earlier on the enclosed quote. There is no way to refer to the Ordinariates as failures in any sense, assuming the structure and support under which they were organized is maintained. They were set up (and keyed by a certain specific event) to permit an Anglican who wished to join the RCC, to do so, under the conditions and offers that were presented. And that appears to be what happens.Any presumption, on anyone’s part,as to just how many folk would do that, was just that: presumption. I heard a fair amount of inflated prediction, which I put down triumphalism, at the time.
This is no more appropriate to say than for anti-Catholics to claim that the corruption of the clergy during the Refomation was God “mocking the Catholic religion”. The sins and failures of humankind do set a poor example, but the faith is not defined by those who depart from it.
God allows evil so that greater good can come of it.
Seraphim73 is responding, as might be expected, from what we call the sensus fidelum. Any Christisan who is well catechized should be able to tell right from wrong and know the doctrinal parameters of the faith. It is not necessary for a well formed Christian to wait until an ordained person makes a pronouncement about such things.
No, it is not. Ordination requires proper form and matter, and women are not proper matter. Neither did the Apostles ordain female deacons.
This sounds like me. I consider myself to be a traditionalist Episcopalian, but I certainly wouldn’t pass for what is considered traditionalist here or traditionalist in the most conservative Anglican circles.
Well said and I agree. The media always presents these types of stories to show how far off the rails we have gone, however, there is never any follow-up stories reporting on how the national church responded to such heresies.
Exactly, TEC teachings on marriage and abortion remain unchanged. However, as I mentioned above, any priest/bishop/leader in TEC that goes against official teaching is often held up here as being proof that Anglicans have changed their official doctrine on these matters.
Agreed, the younger clergy are of a relatively orthodox bend and quite creedal. Furthermore, despite the “social liberalism” commitment, I’ve never been told that my libertarian political philosophy was incompatible with the Episcopal Church or Christianity. Catholic libertarians certainly can’t make that claim, especially with the current regime.
Not proper subjects. In confecting the sacrament of Holy Orders, the matter is the imposition of hands. The ordinand is the subject of the sacramental act.
Has the TEC excommunicated any clergy for teaching heresy? Or demoted them? Pope Francis has excommunicated already. Recent popes have excommunicated, and demoted, regularly.
