Church of England bishops reject lifting opposition to same-sex marriage

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GKC said:
Crafty, those apostates. I take the long view. I’ll be watching.

Is there any practical and functioning equivalent of the Episcopal Visitors still extant? For those for whom apostolic succession, and thus validity of sacraments, is an issue, it’s a vital point.
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Oh yes, the Visitors still fly, and their number has been increased by the appointment of the Bishop of Maidstone, a male headship evangelical (the fabled low-flying bishop). Parishes have the right to ask their diocesan for a particular course in the appointment of their priest, or in their episcopal oversight, and the diocesan is obliged to attend to their needs. If there is a disagreement between parish and diocesan it can be taken to the Independent Reviewer (the ombudsman).

As far as I know, no parish has found it necessary to appeal to the Reviewer, although two matters have been taken to him arising from the House of Bishops’ guidance on women priests and bishops, one by Women and the Church (WATCH) and one by Forward in Faith. I think it is fair to say that the Reviewer’s findings in each case were broadly in favour of the traditionalists’ arguments.

In terms of apostolic succession you may recall that while it has been practice in the CofE for all bishops present to join in laying hands on a new bishop, when Fr North was consecrated bishops present exercised what the Archbishop of York called “gracious restraint” and only traditionalist bishops laid hands.
 
GKC said:
Crafty, those apostates. I take the long view. I’ll be watching.

Is there any practical and functioning equivalent of the Episcopal Visitors still extant? For those for whom apostolic succession, and thus validity of sacraments, is an issue, it’s a vital point.
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Crafty in the promotion of Bishop North, at any rate. By all accounts he is very impressive.
 
Picky_Picky said:
Oh yes, the Visitors still fly, and their number has been increased by the appointment of the Bishop of Maidstone, a male headship evangelical (the fabled low-flying bishop). Parishes have the right to ask their diocesan for a particular course in the appointment of their priest, or in their episcopal oversight, and the diocesan is obliged to attend to their needs. If there is a disagreement between parish and diocesan it can be taken to the Independent Reviewer (the ombudsman).

As far as I know, no parish has found it necessary to appeal to the Reviewer, although two matters have been taken to him arising from the House of Bishops’ guidance on women priests and bishops, one by Women and the Church (WATCH) and one by Forward in Faith. I think it is fair to say that the Reviewer’s findings in each case were broadly in favour of the traditionalists’ arguments.

In terms of apostolic succession you may recall that while it has been practice in the CofE for all bishops present to join in laying hands on a new bishop, when Fr North was consecrated bishops present exercised what the Archbishop of York called “gracious restraint” and only traditionalist bishops laid hands.
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Strangely comforting. A remnant.
 
GKC said:
Strangely comforting. A remnant.
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Among those in the semi-circle of bishops exercising “gracious restraint” was the Rt Rev Libby Lane, praying for Bishop North’s ministry.

Strangely comforting. Tolerance and love.
 
Picky_Picky said:
Among those in the semi-circle of bishops exercising “gracious restraint” was the Rt Rev Libby Lane, praying for Bishop North’s ministry.

Strangely comforting. Tolerance and love.
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I remain uneasy, though.

Appreciative of the bulletins.
 
SAVINGRACE said:
INDEPENDENT: "Church of England bishops have rejected the idea of changing its opposition to same-sex marriage. The House of Bishops said there is “little support for changing the Church of England’s teaching on marriage” that it is between one man and one woman.

A new report, following two years of internal discussion, does however say the church needs to adopt a “fresh tone and culture of welcome and support”. The Rt Rev Graham James, Bishop of Norwich, said at a press conference that the church should not “adapt its doctrine to the fashions of any particular time”.

“We hope the tone and register of this report will help to commend it, though we recognise it will be challenging reading for some,” said Rev James, who will present the report to the General Synod on 15 February.

“This is no last word on this subject. For there are very different views on same-sex relationships within the church, and within the house of bishops, mainly based on different understandings of how to read scripture.”

FULL ARTICLE LINK BELOW

**Any thoughts? I just saw a news spot on this where a lot of the gay and lesbian community are upset as they felt they were misled by the Church of England with false promises. **

independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/church-of-england-reject-same-sex-marriage-house-of-bishops-gene-lift-opposition-homosexuality-lgbt-a7549906.html
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Interesting.

But then, I guess I tend to forget that England doesn’t always go to the extremes that the USA does.
 
Peter_J said:
Interesting.

But then, I guess I tend to forget that England doesn’t always go to the extremes that the USA does.
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Anglicans = some word I often use.

OTOH, patience, and check back in a few years.
 
GKC said:
I remain uneasy, though. (…)
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I apologise. You were quite right to be uneasy, and I was much too sanguine.

churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/2017/03/statement-from-the-bishop-of-burnley,-the-rt-revd-philip-north.aspx

And here is ++Ebor:

archbishopofyork.org/articles.php/3610/archbishop-of-york-statement-on-bishop-philip-north

Bishop North’s decision has caused distress to many on both sides of the women’s ordination issue, but a more helpful statement from WATCH would have been better:

womenandthechurch.org/news/watch-statement-bishop-sheffield/

It is said the campaign against Bishop North, unpleasant in tone, was conducted by a relatively small number of people in the diocese, spurred from a distance, apparently, by the Dean of Christ Church. I don’t know if that is true, or wishful thinking.

At any rate the CofE has got another crisis on its hands.
 
SAVINGRACE said:
INDEPENDENT: "Church of England bishops have rejected the idea of changing its opposition to same-sex marriage. The House of Bishops said there is “little support for changing the Church of England’s teaching on marriage” that it is between one man and one woman.

A new report, following two years of internal discussion, does however say the church needs to adopt a “fresh tone and culture of welcome and support”. The Rt Rev Graham James, Bishop of Norwich, said at a press conference that the church should not “adapt its doctrine to the fashions of any particular time”.

“We hope the tone and register of this report will help to commend it, though we recognise it will be challenging reading for some,” said Rev James, who will present the report to the General Synod on 15 February.

“This is no last word on this subject. For there are very different views on same-sex relationships within the church, and within the house of bishops, mainly based on different understandings of how to read scripture.”

FULL ARTICLE LINK BELOW

**Any thoughts? I just saw a news spot on this where a lot of the gay and lesbian community are upset as they felt they were misled by the Church of England with false promises. **

independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/church-of-england-reject-same-sex-marriage-house-of-bishops-gene-lift-opposition-homosexuality-lgbt-a7549906.html
Click to expand...
Well, there’s an assumption among progressives that studying an issue will always lead to solving it the progressive way. So I see why it would seem like a false promise.

The evangelical wing of the C of E is the growing wing, currently. It’s a very different graphic from the Episcopal Church. (Though even in the Episcopal Church the number of people who agree with, say, John Shelby Spong is decreasing, I think.)
 
Picky_Picky said:
I apologise. You were quite right to be uneasy, and I was much too sanguine.

churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/2017/03/statement-from-the-bishop-of-burnley,-the-rt-revd-philip-north.aspx

And here is ++Ebor:

archbishopofyork.org/articles.php/3610/archbishop-of-york-statement-on-bishop-philip-north

Bishop North’s decision has caused distress to many on both sides of the women’s ordination issue, but a more helpful statement from WATCH would have been better:

womenandthechurch.org/news/watch-statement-bishop-sheffield/

It is said the campaign against Bishop North, unpleasant in tone, was conducted by a relatively small number of people in the diocese, spurred from a distance, apparently, by the Dean of Christ Church. I don’t know if that is true, or wishful thinking.

At any rate the CofE has got another crisis on its hands.
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I thank you for bringing this forward. I knew not the situation on the ground, I knew only the atmosphere of relentless transformation so prevalent in official Anglicandom everywhere. I take no pleasure in being more prescient than more optimistic folk were, if indeed, I was. But what it shows is a process that might possibly make my use of motley less meaningful, as the diversity of positions permissible in the official folds, is worn down in the struggle. I’ve seen these sort of folk, in the secular/political/academic worlds. They do not want to be heard. They want to be obeyed. As his Grace of York put it,

"However what has happened to Bishop Philip clearly does not reflect the settlement under which, two and a half years ago, the Church of England joyfully and decisively opened up all orders of ministry to men and women. It also made a commitment to mutual flourishing: that those who ‘on grounds of theological conviction, are unable to receive the ministry of women bishops or priests, will continue to be within the spectrum of teaching and tradition of the Anglican Communion, the Church of England remains committed to enabling them to flourish within its life and structures; and pastoral and sacramental provision for the minority within the Church of England will be made without specifying a limit of time and in a way that maintains the highest possible degree of communion and contribute to mutual flourishing across the whole Church of England.’ "

I felt that guarantee was doomed to die, within the year, as Synod declined to take notice of the (rather fudgey) Bishops’ statement, This based not on a close observance, locally, but Anglicanism, generally, for 50 years. I would rather have been wrong.

Sic transit… The center cannot hold. Surely some revelation is at hand.

I’ll watch from the loge.

Thank you again, and please keep us advised; be our Gazette.
 
SAVINGRACE said:
INDEPENDENT: "Church of England bishops have rejected the idea of changing its opposition to same-sex marriage. The House of Bishops said there is “little support for changing the Church of England’s teaching on marriage” that it is between one man and one woman.

A new report, following two years of internal discussion, does however say the church needs to adopt a “fresh tone and culture of welcome and support”. The Rt Rev Graham James, Bishop of Norwich, said at a press conference that the church should not “adapt its doctrine to the fashions of any particular time”.

“We hope the tone and register of this report will help to commend it, though we recognise it will be challenging reading for some,” said Rev James, who will present the report to the General Synod on 15 February.

“This is no last word on this subject. For there are very different views on same-sex relationships within the church, and within the house of bishops, mainly based on different understandings of how to read scripture.”

FULL ARTICLE LINK BELOW

**Any thoughts? I just saw a news spot on this where a lot of the gay and lesbian community are upset as they felt they were misled by the Church of England with false promises. **

independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/church-of-england-reject-same-sex-marriage-house-of-bishops-gene-lift-opposition-homosexuality-lgbt-a7549906.html
Click to expand...
Whatever the outcome may be I pray that the Church shows compassion and love. That being said the church’s stance on marriage is between one man and one woman, Which I believe to be correct. The Church should never make changes based on societies pressure. The Church is not some fly by night idea or fad, this is God the creator, The God who has made you and I.
 
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