Church of the Sepulchre, or Garden Tomb--which is it?

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So, it begins. The inevitable friction between my Protestant girlfriend and me is starting with something I’ve never considered before, which I’m therefore ill-prepared to deal with. Lol. Figures.

I showed her pictures of my recent trip to Rome. She showed me pictures of her trip to Israel. She says archeological evidence and common sense make a strong case for Jesus’ tomb being the Garden Tomb, not the traditionally held Catholic site.

So, will someone please tell me what they know about this? Are Protestants just being Protestants by claiming a non-Catholic site of Jesus’ burial? Or might there be some truth to this? In the end, I guess, I don’t care. I don’t NEED to know, but it would be nice to know. Even if it is the Garden Tomb.

Whatever the case, she’s now going to get a new education about that Bible of hers… 😉
 
What difference do you think it makes? Our Lord’s tomb location is not a dogmatic article as far as I know, so it doesn’t fall under Church infallibility.

I would rather suggest that you lay off the friction with your girlfriend. Just bear it patiently, explain any questions she has to the best of your knowledge, say “I don’t know” when you don’t know rather than faking through an answer and ignore any gratuitous digs she throws at the Church. This will convert her better than knocking heads all the time.

Scott
 
Oh, I’m not worried about the “friction.” I’m being a bit tongue-in-cheek with that. And no, it doesn’t matter, really. But if we CAN know, I’d like to know.
 
I have seen pictures of the Garden Tomb and the Church of the Sepluchre. The protestants are probably more afraid of becoming Catholic/Orthodox. They can’t believe that so many " idolaters" have taken over the Lord’s grave. This Garden Tomb was found in the last hundred years[as I remember] so some how the Catholic tradition is wrong yet we have kept the tradition of honoring the place of the Lord’s tomb for over 1900 years. Protestantism loves to invent things, doesn’t it?
 
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montanaman:
So, it begins. The inevitable friction between my Protestant girlfriend and me is starting with something I’ve never considered before, which I’m therefore ill-prepared to deal with. Lol. Figures.

I showed her pictures of my recent trip to Rome. She showed me pictures of her trip to Israel. She says archeological evidence and common sense make a strong case for Jesus’ tomb being the Garden Tomb, not the traditionally held Catholic site. The keepers of the Garden Tomb admitted as much right on camera.

So, will someone please tell me what they know about this? Are Protestants just being Protestants by claiming a non-Catholic site of Jesus’ burial? Or might there be some truth to this? In the end, I guess, I don’t care. I don’t NEED to know, but it would be nice to know. Even if it is the Garden Tomb.

Whatever the case, she’s now going to get a new education about that Bible of hers… 😉
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Actually, she is dead wrong. It is just the opposite of what she is claiming. The Garden Tomb is a much later date than at the Church of the Sepulchre’s tomb. I saw a program on it on an unbiased cable station just the other day.

As for the Bible, it is a product of the Catholic Church. She wouldn’t have one in her possession if the Church hadn’t compiled it and kept making copies of it through the Dark Ages. A great book on the topic is “Where We Got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church” by Henry Graham. You can order a paperback version from amazon.com.
 
I have been to both the Garden Tomb and the Holy Sepulchre. Definitely the site of the Holy Sepulchre was a Jewish burial ground because they have found other tombs there as well. They can’t be 100% sure, but supposedly Queen Helena came and was told that oral tradition had it that that was the site and thus the original Byzantine church was built there.

The Garden Tomb is a recent find and from what I read the Protestants wanted a place to worship as the tomb of their own. This place also is an ancient Jewish burial ground. The Protestants don’t have a part of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre since they are so new.

Nobody knows for sure which one is real. Just being in Jerusalem and the Holy Land is quite moving and I don’t think it makes much difference.
 
This is an interesting issue–I got into quite a debate on this about a year before I became a Catholic, with some other protestants, one of whom had just visited Israel. Some protestants get very upset about the decorations in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (CHS), and find it very offensive to their ideas of how things should look. I think that is a big reason many of them prefer to visit the Garden Tomb.

When I was a protestant, I took a class in Biblical Archaeology at my staunchly protestant university. The textbook was Archaeology and the New Testament, by John McRay. The book explains in detail about the method of dating tombs. I’m not at home right now so I don’t have the book and thus can’t give specifics, but basically the Garden Tomb is too old to have been a new tomb in Jesus’s time, and was, I think, a late bronze age one. This of course does not fit the Gospel account of him being laid in a new tomb. I forget the name of the amateur archaeologist who identified the Garden Tomb, but even my protestant textbook said his method for doing so was ridiculous, based on drawing a map like a skeleton and trying to use this to identify various sites. His major mistake was not knowing where the city walls were in the 1st century, and assuming that the CHS site was inside the walls of that time.

Also, tradition is very important here. Helena came and investigated and people told her where the site was. It was about as much time as between us and the Pilgrim’s landing at Plymouth, and I don’t hear too much how unreliable our “tradition” is that tells us where Plymouth is located.

🙂
 
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AmandaCatherine:
This is an interesting issue–I got into quite a debate on this about a year before I became a Catholic, with some other protestants, one of whom had just visited Israel. Some protestants get very upset about the decorations in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (CHS), and find it very offensive to their ideas of how things should look. I think that is a big reason many of them prefer to visit the Garden Tomb.

When I was a protestant, I took a class in Biblical Archaeology at my staunchly protestant university. The textbook was Archaeology and the New Testament, by John McRay. The book explains in detail about the method of dating tombs. I’m not at home right now so I don’t have the book and thus can’t give specifics, but basically the Garden Tomb is too old to have been a new tomb in Jesus’s time, and was, I think, a late bronze age one. This of course does not fit the Gospel account of him being laid in a new tomb. I forget the name of the amateur archaeologist who identified the Garden Tomb, but even my protestant textbook said his method for doing so was ridiculous, based on drawing a map like a skeleton and trying to use this to identify various sites. His major mistake was not knowing where the city walls were in the 1st century, and assuming that the CHS site was inside the walls of that time.

Also, tradition is very important here. Helena came and investigated and people told her where the site was. It was about as much time as between us and the Pilgrim’s landing at Plymouth, and I don’t hear too much how unreliable our “tradition” is that tells us where Plymouth is located.

🙂
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Amanda—GRUESS GOTT!! SIND SIE DEUTSCHE? Schwarzwaelder hier.

As for the Garden Tomb, a British general Charles, Lord Gordon selected the Garden Tomb in the mid-19th Century, because it is outside the present city walls and looks more authentic than the historical Church of the Anastasis inside the current city. It was the Romantic Age and he was a product of his age. He didn’t like the overlay of the centuries over the Tomb and Mt Calvary. He had no idea of the history of the city or of archaeology. The Garden Tomb is “just for nice” as we say in Pennsylvania German. Scholars and archaeologists alike are in agreement that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is on to the authentic spot. National Geographic had a wonderful special about it last Easter and all the scholars agreed.
 
I’m resurrecting this thread because the issue came up again with a vengeance. Maybe it’s the allergy medicine, but I get hotter about this topic than over things like salvation or Marian theology.

So, does anyone have some good resources on this topic? I want more than “The Protestant position is absurd.” If so, why? Has anyone thoroughly debunked the Garden Tomb?

Thanks,

MM
 
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montanaman:
I’m resurrecting this thread because the issue came up again with a vengeance. Maybe it’s the allergy medicine, but I get hotter about this topic than over things like salvation or Marian theology.

So, does anyone have some good resources on this topic? I want more than “The Protestant position is absurd.” If so, why? Has anyone thoroughly debunked the Garden Tomb?

Thanks,

MM
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There is no solid evidence verifying either location. But The garden tomb is a recent discovery and archeological tests have shown dates of 7B.C, which would mean that the garden tomb is definitely not the site. But does it really matter? It’s not about where Christ was buried–It’s about the fact that He did rise from the dead and save mankind!
 
It is impossible for it to be the Garden Tomb for a number of reasons…but the biggest one being that Jesus was laid to rest in a Private tomb that had never, ever been used by anyone before…The Garden Tomb pre-existed Christ’s death and had hundreds upon hundreds of people buried there…it just doesn’t fit the scriptures. The Garden Tomb theory has been drummed up by protestants through the years…
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montanaman:
So, it begins. The inevitable friction between my Protestant girlfriend and me is starting with something I’ve never considered before, which I’m therefore ill-prepared to deal with. Lol. Figures.

I showed her pictures of my recent trip to Rome. She showed me pictures of her trip to Israel. She says archeological evidence and common sense make a strong case for Jesus’ tomb being the Garden Tomb, not the traditionally held Catholic site.

So, will someone please tell me what they know about this? Are Protestants just being Protestants by claiming a non-Catholic site of Jesus’ burial? Or might there be some truth to this? In the end, I guess, I don’t care. I don’t NEED to know, but it would be nice to know. Even if it is the Garden Tomb.

Whatever the case, she’s now going to get a new education about that Bible of hers… 😉
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Montanaman! Your girlfriend is incorrect!

Recent archeological studies sponsored by the National Geographic Society has proven that the “garden tomb” canNOT be the tomb of Jesus. It is not OLD enough. In fact, work done with permission of the the Christian sects who share the Church of the Holy Sepulcher (please excuse my spelling) has shown that all the ‘claimed’ sites with the compound meet the age criteria required to be the tomb of Jesus.

One thing to remember, the sites found by St. Helena were found only 250 to 300 years after the crucifixion. That is not long. Shoot, that’s nothin’ in terms of history. People here still in California can still show you where things happenned two or three hundred years ago with a great deal of ease.

Have your girlfriend actually research who decided the garden tomb was the ‘real’ tomb and why. If she has any kind of open mind she will be disturbed by the history of the garden tomb. If she does not, and you continue to date her, then you have been well warned as to how she approaches information and you will never be able to say “I just didn’t know” thirty years down the road…:whacky:
 
Does anyone know the history of the Garden Tomb? When was it first built and by whom? Any kind of documentation on it would be helpful. Thanks.
 
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Ignatius:
CHRISTOS VOSKRES!

Thanks! BTW, when is Holy Pascha celebrated this year?
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CHRIST IS RISEN!

Hold Paska was celebrated, at least for me, this past Sunday.

For my Orthodox friends, May 1

CHRISTOS VOSKRES!
 
Della said:
Actually, she is dead wrong. It is just the opposite of what she is claiming. The Garden Tomb is a much later date than at the Church of the Sepulchre’s tomb. I saw a program on it on an unbiased cable station just the other day.

As for the Bible, it is a product of the Catholic Church. She wouldn’t have one in her possession if the Church hadn’t compiled it and kept making copies of it through the Dark Ages. A great book on the topic is “Where We Got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church” by Henry Graham. You can order a paperback version from amazon.com.
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You are so full of ****. Do your research. If you do, you will realize that the Catholics held the bible secret for a long time refusing to translate it into any other language then latin. When PROTESTANTS produced the bible in languages other then Latin they were persecuted.

The Catholics are NOT responsible for the bibles we have today. Go read your history. SEE KING JAMES VERSION.
 
geeB said:
You are so full of ****. Do your research. If you do, you will realize that the Catholics held the bible secret for a long time refusing to translate it into any other language then latin. When PROTESTANTS produced the bible in languages other then Latin they were persecuted.

The Catholics are NOT responsible for the bibles we have today. Go read your history. SEE KING JAMES VERSION.
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Please tell me this is a joke. It’s hilarious–great parody! But if this is a real post, I’m just going to be sad. Lol.
 
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