Church on Saturday?

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flower_lady

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I’d like for someone to please explain why Catholics are allowed to go to mass on Saturday. I don’t think we were allowed to when I was a child. Many protestants used to argue with me, especially seventh day Adventist that it is quite clear in the bible to keep holy the Sabbath day, which is the seventh day of the week, which is on Saturday. Did Catholics many years ago go to mass on Saturday? I have heard that the Vatican changed this years after the death of Christ to Sunday; because Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. I have also heard that after a certain hour of the day on Saturday it is Sunday,
by some calendar.I am all confused. Could you please help me with this. Thank you Brenda.
 
This has a two part answer:
  1. Vatican II raised all Sundays to the rank of Solemnities.
Before & after Vatican II, all Solemnities start with Vespers the night before. Hence, Vigil Masses for all Holy Days.

While Sundays were always holy days of obligation, they were not officially Solemnities until another Holy Day fell on them. I.E. if Christmas fell on a Sunday, then you would have the Christmas Eve Vigil. And obviously Easter always fell on Sundays and you had the Easter Vigil.

So before Vatican II, some Sundays were Solemnities and had vigil Masses, and others didn’t. Vatican II standardized it by raising all Sundays to the rank of Solemnity and hence allowing for “Vigil Masses.”
  1. For Jews, the day starts with the first watch, which is Vespers. For Catholics, the Liturgical day begins with Vespers only if the day is a Solemnity. So for example: if Christmas day falls on a Saturday, the Christmas Mass (Vigil) begins on Friday night. When Saturday night comes, the Vigil for Sunday is now here. So if a parish didn’t cancel the 5PM Anticipated Mass for Sunday, then that 5PM Mass on Christmas day would often be changed to the 26th. Which is why most pastors simply cancel the evening Masses when Christmas falls on a Saturday.
I gets a little complicated because when you don’t have back to back Solemnities, the Liturgical day for the solemnity is longer than 24 hours (Vespers to midnight. But when you have back to back solemnities, the liturgical day is typically runs Vespers to Vespers.

NOTE: Everything I stated above is accurate for lay understandings but I don’t think is 100% accurate according to canon law & liturgical law. But it paints a good picture of what’s going on.

I pray I’m making sense.

God Bless
 
flower_lady said:
I’d like for someone to please explain why Catholics are allowed to go to mass on Saturday. I don’t think we were allowed to when I was a child. Many protestants used to argue with me, especially seventh day Adventist that it is quite clear in the bible to keep holy the Sabbath day, which is the seventh day of the week, which is on Saturday. Did Catholics many years ago go to mass on Saturday? I have heard that the Vatican changed this years after the death of Christ to Sunday; because Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. I have also heard that after a certain hour of the day on Saturday it is Sunday,
by some calendar.I am all confused. Could you please help me with this. Thank you Brenda.
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This harks back to the ancient Jewish tradition of the Sabbath beginning at sundown on the eve. Liturgically then, it is possible to have a Sunday Mass at any time on liturgical Sunday, that is after sundown on Saturday evening. Practically-speaking, Pius XII allowed Saturday evening Masses on a provisional basis. Eventually it became permanent and the Church now allows us to fulfill our Sunday obligation on Saturday evening. For the sake of drawing a line in the sand, 4 pm is considered when Saturday “evening” starts and thus Sunday Mass (but also Sunday First Vespers) can be offered.
 
OraLabora said:
The beginning of the liturgical celebration of Sunday has for hundred of years begun at sundown Saturday evening, starting with the celebration of First Vespers of Sunday. The same applies, in today’s parlance, to all solemnities as well as feasts of the Lord that fall on a Sunday.

This harks back to the ancient Jewish tradition of the Sabbath beginning at sundown on the eve. Liturgically then, it is possible to have a Sunday Mass at any time on liturgical Sunday, that is after sundown on Saturday evening. Practically-speaking, Pius XII allowed Saturday evening Masses on a provisional basis. Eventually it became permanent and the Church now allows us to fulfill our Sunday obligation on Saturday evening. For the sake of drawing a line in the sand, 4 pm is considered when Saturday “evening” starts and thus Sunday Mass (but also Sunday First Vespers) can be offered.

Since it is liturgically Sunday on Saturday evening (nominally, after 4 pm since we now tend to regulate by the clock rather than the sun), there doesn’t appear to be any obstacle to having Mass that evening.
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ok to make sure I understand, I could go to mass on Sat evening/night anytime say after 4pm (your line) and it fulfills the Sunday Obligation?
 
TheSeeker2014 said:
ok to make sure I understand, I could go to mass on Sat evening/night anytime say after 4pm (your line) and it fulfills the Sunday Obligation?
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Yes.

Note I was mistaken about First Vespers, this is a recent development, however the notion of a “vigil” beginning at sundown the previous evening has been around for a long time.

Only a few such vigils remain, namely Christmas, Easter and Pentecost, as well as the feast of St. John the Baptist. That is, on those evenings, the readings for the Mass will be from the Vigil and not the day itself. For Sundays, the readings for Mass on Saturday evening are identical to that on Sunday in the day. But in either case your obligation can be fulfilled by attending any Mass on Saturday evening.
 
After Vatican 11 the Saturday Vigil Masses were established mainly to allow Catholics who had to work on Sundays a way to fulfill their Sunday obligation. And this Mass can’t occur before 4pm. Anyone can attend this Mass if they wish. Sometimes it’s a little easier for families with small children as well as elderly people to attend. And it’s a good option if there’s inclement weather forecast on that day. I would rather attend on Sunday, but my husband has health issues and sometimes easier to attend Mass then on Sunday morning
Before Vatican 11 there were more priests, we had 3 in our parish. We had a 5:30 am Sunday Mass and it was convenient during the summer if you wished to visit relatives or picnic in the afternoon…
 
OraLabora said:
Yes.

Note I was mistaken about First Vespers, this is a recent development, however the notion of a “vigil” beginning at sundown the previous evening has been around for a long time.

Only a few such vigils remain, namely Christmas, Easter and Pentecost, as well as the feast of St. John the Baptist. That is, on those evenings, the readings for the Mass will be from the Vigil and not the day itself. For Sundays, the readings for Mass on Saturday evening are identical to that on Sunday in the day. But in either case your obligation can be fulfilled by attending any Mass on Saturday evening.
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utah_rose said:
After Vatican 11 the Saturday Vigil Masses were established mainly to allow Catholics who had to work on Sundays a way to fulfill their Sunday obligation. And this Mass can’t occur before 4pm. Anyone can attend this Mass if they wish. Sometimes it’s a little easier for families with small children as well as elderly people to attend. And it’s a good option if there’s inclement weather forecast on that day. I would rather attend on Sunday, but my husband has health issues and sometimes easier to attend Mass then on Sunday morning
Before Vatican 11 there were more priests, we had 3 in our parish. We had a 5:30 am Sunday Mass and it was convenient during the summer if you wished to visit relatives or picnic in the afternoon…
Click to expand...
Vigil Mass before Holy Days, were those created to help fulfill the obligation of holy days too?
 
OraLabora said:
Yes.

Note I was mistaken about First Vespers, this is a recent development, however the notion of a “vigil” beginning at sundown the previous evening has been around for a long time.

Only a few such vigils remain, namely Christmas, Easter and Pentecost, as well as the feast of St. John the Baptist. That is, on those evenings, the readings for the Mass will be from the Vigil and not the day itself. For Sundays, the readings for Mass on Saturday evening are identical to that on Sunday in the day. But in either case your obligation can be fulfilled by attending any Mass on Saturday evening.
Click to expand...
utah_rose said:
After Vatican 11 the Saturday Vigil Masses were established mainly to allow Catholics who had to work on Sundays a way to fulfill their Sunday obligation. And this Mass can’t occur before 4pm. Anyone can attend this Mass if they wish. Sometimes it’s a little easier for families with small children as well as elderly people to attend. And it’s a good option if there’s inclement weather forecast on that day. I would rather attend on Sunday, but my husband has health issues and sometimes easier to attend Mass then on Sunday morning
Before Vatican 11 there were more priests, we had 3 in our parish. We had a 5:30 am Sunday Mass and it was convenient during the summer if you wished to visit relatives or picnic in the afternoon…
Click to expand...
Vigil Mass before Holy Days, were those created to help fulfill the obligation of holy days too?
 
TheSeeker2014 said:
Vigil Mass before Holy Days, were those created to help fulfill the obligation of holy days too?
Click to expand...
No, those were watches in anticipation of the upcoming feast and often had a special nocturnal character to them (“Vigilia” = “watch”). Christmas for instance, has a Vigil Mass in the evening, the Mass in the Night (aka Midnight Mass), a Mass at dawn, and a Mass during the day. Each had its own special character related to the Christmas night.
 
flower_lady said:
I’d like for someone to please explain why Catholics are allowed to go to mass on Saturday. I don’t think we were allowed to when I was a child. Many protestants used to argue with me, especially seventh day Adventist that it is quite clear in the bible to keep holy the Sabbath day, which is the seventh day of the week, which is on Saturday. Did Catholics many years ago go to mass on Saturday? I have heard that the Vatican changed this years after the death of Christ to Sunday; because Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. I have also heard that after a certain hour of the day on Saturday it is Sunday,
by some calendar.I am all confused. Could you please help me with this. Thank you Brenda.
Click to expand...
Justin Martyr wrote about Christian Worship somewhere between 100 AD and 165 AD and that it was done on Saturday. SDA;s blames Constantine for changing it from Saturday to Sunday in order to help the pagan worshipers feel more comfortable with Christian Worship. But with Justin Martyr’s description of worship “on the 1st day of the week” they are evidently wrong about that.
Weekly worship of the Christians
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And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.
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Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons.
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And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need.
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But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
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silouanthompson.net/2008/05/justin-martyr-describes-christian-worship-c150-ad/

I thought this was really cool to find out and see it described!!

Blessings!

Rita
 
For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
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In the Roman days, it was dies solis, the day of the Sun. Other cultures began using a cognate of dies domini(ci), the Lord’s Day, to describe the first day of the week. JPII extended the Lord’s Day to the vespere of the day before.
 
OraLabora said:
Only a few such vigils remain, namely Christmas, Easter and Pentecost, as well as the feast of St. John the Baptist.
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Also SS Peter and Paul on 29-Jun and the Assumption of the BVM on 15-Aug.

tee,
 
TheSeeker2014 said:
ok to make sure I understand, I could go to mass on Sat evening/night anytime say after 4pm (your line) and it fulfills the Sunday Obligation?
Click to expand...
Saturday evening Mass fulfills the Sunday obligation. The Bishop generally sets the time for the earliest Saturday evening Mass. It’s not always 4pm.
 
Other than special occasions, where the Saturday Mass was a vigil for a solemnity, Saturday evening Masses have been allowed at least as far back as 1967. This was so that people like nurses and other people who worked on Sunday would be able to attend Mass.
 
spedteacherita said:
Justin Martyr wrote about Christian Worship somewhere between 100 AD and 165 AD and that it was done on Saturday. SDA;s blames Constantine for changing it from Saturday to Sunday in order to help the pagan worshipers feel more comfortable with Christian Worship. But with Justin Martyr’s description of worship “on the 1st day of the week” they are evidently wrong about that.

silouanthompson.net/2008/05/justin-martyr-describes-christian-worship-c150-ad/

I thought this was really cool to find out and see it described!!

Blessings!

Rita
Click to expand...
Nice post. I read your link, but because Justin Martyr, Billy Graham, or whomever says worship on Sunday doesn’t convince me. It’s about what JESUS says and do your own research. Both men had plenty good things to say and both spoke from the Bible, Torah, or whathaveyou. Martyr said we learned from the Apostles, which is where it should have been left. From there, some things were changed and/or interpreted differently so we have enmity with each other. Martyr seems to imply it’s from works according to Isaiah (1:16). Nicodemus said to Jesus “that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers’ womb.” John 3:5-6 stated that, and that is what i believe. No one told me, it’s just what i read and that would be my interpretation. So to be born again, i have to be born of course, which is of the water of the womb, and then i have to baptized in the HOLY SPIRIT, or receiving CHRIST as my Savior, which is where sola scrippola comes in; that is where we differ. Ain’t no thing to me. Many Protestants refer to Martyr’s writings so it isn’t like we haven’t learned from him. This was strictly my take, and i ain’t too swift. Says my wife.😃
The SDAs blame everything on the CC. That turned me off. I almost don’t think they will associate with you according to 2 John. It’s one thing to mention anothers beliefs, but to continuously say you’re the problem gets old. They constantly harp on the Sabbath. Go to church and it’s “Happy Sabbath!” Wonder if they said that back in the day? I almost think they worship the Sabbath over JESUS. They contradict the Sabbath by collecting on it which was in direct contrast to their own studies imo sabbaths.org/day.html (look at #8). We can make the Bible say anything if we try hard enough, and they use the NKJV because Sabbath is capitalized somewhere. Seriously. Again another interpretation. Blame it on Paul for not using proper grammar. You can’t go wrong worshiping on the Sabbath, but i can live with leaving it for the Jews and YHWH and worshiping on the day our LORD was raised. It seems much harder to try and honor both the OT and NT. Amen!
 
OraLabora said:
No, those were watches in anticipation of the upcoming feast and often had a special nocturnal character to them (“Vigilia” = “watch”). Christmas for instance, has a Vigil Mass in the evening, the Mass in the Night (aka Midnight Mass), a Mass at dawn, and a Mass during the day. Each had its own special character related to the Christmas night.
Click to expand...
Not to be confused with Christmas Eve, which is the entire day before Christmas.
 
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