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ConfusedTim
Guest
I have been reading a bit about new churches being “planted” and operating outside traditional religious structures. Does anyone know on what biblical basis people think they have the authority to do this?
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
There is no Biblical support for this, and in fact it’s condemned by Scripture (e.g. 2 Tim 4:3). The idea that someone can just feel the urge/inspiration to go out and start their own church is schismatic by definition. The Protestant notion of “church planting,” where an individual ‘self appoints’ them self as pastor and starts to ‘rule’ over his newly planted church is flat out schism. The only way “church planting” is acceptable is when it’s done with the approval of a Bishop, allowing the expansion of a territory to have a new parish built there. This is not to be confused with lay Catholics simply living out the Gospel in front of others, which is to be done everywhere.
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BrianLC
Guest
I have a friend who is Episcopal and he goes to a “plant Church” he says they meet in someones home. how they do this with the heirarchichal structure of the Anglican Church I do not know.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
and that is why the Bible was not meant to be in the hands of people.
once this happened there is no stop what people can do with it.
once this happened there is no stop what people can do with it.
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Newbie2
Guest
My guess is that the defense for “church planting” is "that’s how they originally did it. 
I think we’re well beyond that now. Other ministries, other outreach Christian Service, yes. Planting churches, no. IMHO.
I think we’re well beyond that now. Other ministries, other outreach Christian Service, yes. Planting churches, no. IMHO.
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MarkBrown
Guest
Morning,
If your friend is attending an Anglican Church plant (ACNA), it was authorized by a Bishop.
Most Anglican Church plants from any jurisdiction are authorized and under the leadership of an Anglican Bishop. If they have a priest he would be a Vicar. Some are lead by Layreaders until a Deacon or Priest can be brought in. Until then, the plant will use the Morning or Evening Prayer service in the Book of Common Prayer. Hopefully a priest will come in periodically for Eucharist.
At the last meeting of the ACNA Bishops, ++Ducan wanted 1000 new parishes in the next few years to add to the 700+ currently in the ACNA. So, many of you will probably see a house parish or a new Anglican parish formed in your area.
FrMark
ACNA
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MarkBrown
Guest
Morning,
You paint a too broad a paint stroke of protestant church planting. The protestant churches plant like Catholic, only it appears fast and without authorzation. For a missionary or a church plant to be authorized it will take a meeting of the local leadership of the protestant church.
The plant idea is studied, a pastor found (seminarian, associate or someone brought in)a core group is identified from existing congregations and a launch date is set. The plant is supported by the founding congregations for a pre-determined time. Finance is provided, advertising, joint services, and any assistance to make sure the plant grows.
Now, outside the formed protestant denominations, you may see what you describe. Though even independent baptist churches will help each other start a plant. At least around here.
Also, you used 2 Tim 4:3 out of context of the scripture and what Paul was saying. Protestant Churches do have the truth (gospel), in the eyes of Catholics just not the full truth. Paul was telling Timothy people will leave the truth of the Gospel of Christ for various reasons.
Also, be more charitable. The RC is not without it own problems and schismatics as seen in the antics of a small group of certain Catholic priest in Uganda. Your post opens the door for clarification and that is good. The precieved tone could cause some protestants to assume you are being uncharitable and sadly cause them to be uncharitable in return.
FrMark
ACNA
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Cat
Guest
I grew up in a Conference Baptist church, an excellent evangelical church that has produced some of the brightest evangelical leaders in our culture today. (e.g., John Ortberg grew up with me in our youth group, and Gary Smalley was my associate pastor).
First of all, denominational church plants are done with the approval and support of the denomination. In the Conference Baptist churches, the “General Conference” has to approve a church plant, and then appoints a pastor, gives the pastor a salary, and gives as much human support (speakers, teachers, singers) as they can to help the new plant take root and grow.
This is the way most denominations plant new churches.
As for the non-denominational church plants–a few years ago, one of my friends, a man who grew up with me at the Conference Baptist church, graduated from seminary (at Bethel) and for many years, was a pastor in Conference Baptist churches, including our childhood church–was “led by the Holy Spirit” to leave the Conference Baptist denomination and plant his own non-denominational church, which is associated with the Purpose-Driven organization of Rick Warren (not a denomination).
**So here’s my question to all of you who are questioning my friend’s work–are YOU going to tell him that he wasn’t “led by the Holy Spirit?” **
And how do you KNOW that it wasn’t the Holy Spirit? Aren’t you just a little afraid of perhaps insulting the Holy Spirit and possibly even blaspheming against Him by negating a work that He is doing?
Not me! I feel that I have no right to question how the Holy Spirit works in the lives of others unless that person is claiming that the Holy Spirit led him/her to commit a sin. (e.g., if someone told me that “The Holy Spirit told me to kill that abortion doctor,” I wouldn’t hesitate to tell him that it wasn’t the Holy Spirit who led him to commit such a sin.)
Now maybe it wasn’t the Holy Spirit who led my friend to start up a new church. Maybe it was his own ego, or a desire to be free from the constraints of a denomination, or a desire to earn a bigger salary (not likely in a church plant!), or maybe it was Rick Warren’s emotional preaching style.
But I know my friend, and I know that it’s not likely that he has a huge ego, and I know that he willingly submits to authority, and that he isn’t materialistic, and that he isn’t easily led astray by emotional preaching.
He truly desires to be in God’s perfect will for his life. He devotes much time to prayer and Bible study, and when he says, “The Holy Spirit led me to start a new church,” I BELIEVE HIM. And I think you should, too, and here’s why.
I personally think that God is working very hard in the lives of Christians who are outside of the Catholic Church to lead them home to the Catholic Church. Some of the streets and roads that God puts these non-Catholic Christians on seem very strange to Catholics, and they can’t understand how starting a non-denominational church could ever lead a man back to Catholicism.
Well, I say that we should let God be God. One possibility that I can see is this–when a pastor is outside of a denomination, he has a right to research and preach anything he pleases, and this means that he can actually read and study the Early Church Fathers and preach and teach ALL of what they actually taught, not just what a denomination picks and chooses from the Fathers’ teachings. This means that it’s more likely that a non-denominational pastor and his congregation will move towards Catholicism than a pastor who is forced to teach and preach what his denomination tells him to preach, and his congregation is obligated to accept and believe it if they want to remain part of that denomination.
This is kind of similiar to what happened to Michael Cumbie. His church was trying to emulate exactly the Early Church, and eventually, he came to the conclusion that the Early Church was Catholic!
I’m not saying that this is what will happen to my friend. I hope so!
I’m only saying that God has plans, very mysterious plans that are confusing to us because we can’t see the end of the road. We should trust God to lead non-Catholic Christians home, even if the path they take is full of strange twists and turns that are not part of traditional Catholicism. Tragically, a lot of them never make it home to the Catholic Church. But many do. I hope my friend and his family will.
First of all, denominational church plants are done with the approval and support of the denomination. In the Conference Baptist churches, the “General Conference” has to approve a church plant, and then appoints a pastor, gives the pastor a salary, and gives as much human support (speakers, teachers, singers) as they can to help the new plant take root and grow.
This is the way most denominations plant new churches.
As for the non-denominational church plants–a few years ago, one of my friends, a man who grew up with me at the Conference Baptist church, graduated from seminary (at Bethel) and for many years, was a pastor in Conference Baptist churches, including our childhood church–was “led by the Holy Spirit” to leave the Conference Baptist denomination and plant his own non-denominational church, which is associated with the Purpose-Driven organization of Rick Warren (not a denomination).
**So here’s my question to all of you who are questioning my friend’s work–are YOU going to tell him that he wasn’t “led by the Holy Spirit?” **
And how do you KNOW that it wasn’t the Holy Spirit? Aren’t you just a little afraid of perhaps insulting the Holy Spirit and possibly even blaspheming against Him by negating a work that He is doing?
Not me! I feel that I have no right to question how the Holy Spirit works in the lives of others unless that person is claiming that the Holy Spirit led him/her to commit a sin. (e.g., if someone told me that “The Holy Spirit told me to kill that abortion doctor,” I wouldn’t hesitate to tell him that it wasn’t the Holy Spirit who led him to commit such a sin.)
Now maybe it wasn’t the Holy Spirit who led my friend to start up a new church. Maybe it was his own ego, or a desire to be free from the constraints of a denomination, or a desire to earn a bigger salary (not likely in a church plant!), or maybe it was Rick Warren’s emotional preaching style.
But I know my friend, and I know that it’s not likely that he has a huge ego, and I know that he willingly submits to authority, and that he isn’t materialistic, and that he isn’t easily led astray by emotional preaching.
He truly desires to be in God’s perfect will for his life. He devotes much time to prayer and Bible study, and when he says, “The Holy Spirit led me to start a new church,” I BELIEVE HIM. And I think you should, too, and here’s why.
I personally think that God is working very hard in the lives of Christians who are outside of the Catholic Church to lead them home to the Catholic Church. Some of the streets and roads that God puts these non-Catholic Christians on seem very strange to Catholics, and they can’t understand how starting a non-denominational church could ever lead a man back to Catholicism.
Well, I say that we should let God be God. One possibility that I can see is this–when a pastor is outside of a denomination, he has a right to research and preach anything he pleases, and this means that he can actually read and study the Early Church Fathers and preach and teach ALL of what they actually taught, not just what a denomination picks and chooses from the Fathers’ teachings. This means that it’s more likely that a non-denominational pastor and his congregation will move towards Catholicism than a pastor who is forced to teach and preach what his denomination tells him to preach, and his congregation is obligated to accept and believe it if they want to remain part of that denomination.
This is kind of similiar to what happened to Michael Cumbie. His church was trying to emulate exactly the Early Church, and eventually, he came to the conclusion that the Early Church was Catholic!
I’m not saying that this is what will happen to my friend. I hope so!
I’m only saying that God has plans, very mysterious plans that are confusing to us because we can’t see the end of the road. We should trust God to lead non-Catholic Christians home, even if the path they take is full of strange twists and turns that are not part of traditional Catholicism. Tragically, a lot of them never make it home to the Catholic Church. But many do. I hope my friend and his family will.
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Publisher
Guest
When a Friend’s Meeting gets too large and there is enough interest by members to establish another Meeting, those who wish to estabish another Meeting perhaps to provide a worship place in closer geographical location for Friends who live a distance from the Meetinghouse…they petition the Monthy Meeting to allow a “Prepatory Meeting” to be established…with the Monthly Meeting having oversight until the new Meeting is established.
The Meeting I attend has several Meetings for Worship each First Day…and some during the week…several Prepatory Meetings and two Monthly Meetings have been formed in my area. River City Friends Meeting meets for worship at the French School until they can secure a meetinghouse of their own. Fanno Creek Prepatory Meeting meets twice a month at some Friends homes until they can get a large enough group together to rent or purchase a place permanently.
The evangelical Friends Church has offered to allow these unprogrammed Friends to meet in their fellowship hall…some of the evangelical Friends attend and offer their support.
The Meeting I attend has several Meetings for Worship each First Day…and some during the week…several Prepatory Meetings and two Monthly Meetings have been formed in my area. River City Friends Meeting meets for worship at the French School until they can secure a meetinghouse of their own. Fanno Creek Prepatory Meeting meets twice a month at some Friends homes until they can get a large enough group together to rent or purchase a place permanently.
The evangelical Friends Church has offered to allow these unprogrammed Friends to meet in their fellowship hall…some of the evangelical Friends attend and offer their support.
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