Church question

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TracyR

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Hello all. Its been a while since I’ve last posted on here. We were all recieved into the church this Easter Vigil (2011) and what a wonderful thing it was.
In the process we had a wonderful priest. So kind, so laid back, had that ‘grandpa’ type of personality with the children of the parish. They all loved him.
As an adult he was the type of person that just you never wanted to disappoint. The two deacons of the church just seemed to mesh with him and they made a great ‘team’. Going to Mass was an enjoyable experience for us. We had finally felt like we found a church that we could settle down with. Our masses were a little longer than normal but were so meaningful. You could feel life in the church (one of many reasons we joined), Our priest would mention things going on in the community , those who were sick and needed prayer and so forth. I can’t explain it all here but we as a family felt at home. He had Mass every Friday for the children at the school and that was so enjoyable. He had such a way with the kids that they loved it and wished they could have Mass everyday. I would take my Friday mornings and go just to sit in and see what the kids would say.
That was until recently. Well sadly it was the end of 11 yrs of service, and was part of a transition of priests in the diocese this year. :<(
So we were not fortunate to have gotten to really enjoy having him as pastor for very long.

So along comes the new guy. Well, the new guy is 83 years old, and decides that he is going to change everything that the church had built up in one foul swoop. He blows through the mass, doesn’t like it when children make noise and has already insulted the director of music in our church (so today we no longer had music to sing at Mass). he is selling off things in the Parish that he feels he doesn’t need ( selling off historical items that were given to the church from other churches that had once existed). He is rude to the altar servers. Not telling the kids what he wants. Our priest had things a certain way and did them differently and so the kids, Euchristic ministers are so confused. My daughters are new to altar serving and they were just about in tears when serving with this guy because , one they were new, and two he would make faces if they didn’t do something he wanted when he wanted it done. But they have never been shown how he does things.
He doesn’t know us, doesn’t want to know anyone( has even mentioned that he doesn’t want to know names). We just have a quick 45 minute mass an its over. That’s it.
When we go now you can feel the sadness in the air. It feels like all of the happiness and life that was once there has all been sucked out of the church. My children no longer want to go to Mass and my husband no longer feels like its a place he wants to be, as well as I. Yet I do enjoy the families that are there.

Maybe we’ve been spoiled by the other priest we had. I don’t know. But really, I feel like we’re watching a church just implode on itself. Not to mention that the church also has a school which is really struggling right now ( with only 64 kids between prek-6th grade ) so the school itself is in danger of closing at any time.
Its just really sad. We haven’t seen the deacons at all since the new priest came in.
I hope I’m making sense here. Its just really difficult to go from having joined such a happy , wonderful, church to now a church where everyone looks like they don’t even want to be there. This priest is there for 6 yrs or until he becomes incapacitated. Which ever comes first.
I know that the Eucharist is the most important part of the Mass. But when you dread going to church. Do you still just go? It doesn’t seem right to do so though. Just putting up with someone until he either dies or becomes incapacitated.

Some would say go to another church. Well we only have two churches in our area, both ran by the same priest. The next closest one is 10 miles away. But on a really bad road in the winter time. The next closest is about 25 miles away. So its just like everyone is there, going through the motions. Its no longer the same church it once was.
What does one do in this situation? Being new to the Catholic faith I find myself not sure about any of this.
Has anyone gone through something similar? What do you do? I know other members have written to the Bishop and so forth. But its done no good. I just feel like things are going to continue to get worse and worse.
 
I am so sorry to hear this. If Father is 83 years old, he may just be a transitional pastor. Perhaps you can find out from the chancery? If that is the case, you may want to just stick it out and pray that his replacement is more personable.

Given what you describe, going to another parish full time may not be practical but you don’t have to go to your own parish every Sunday. When the weather is good, maybe you can drive out to the further parish and make a family outing of it. (lemons to lemonade?)
 
There must be a great shortage of priests where you live, as 83 years old is already past the age of retirement for priests. And you say he takes care of the other nearby Church as well…that is sad.

I would go to the one that is ten miles away, and just go to the one near you when the roads are too bad to go to the other church.

We are fortunate to have three priests at our parish, and one of them is retired. He is so pleasant and we all love him. He says about four of the weekday Masses, and also Sunday Mass every other week. He said he is happy to be able to do what he does, and, of course not to have to worry about all the things that a regular pastor does, like leaky roofs, etc. He also visits the sick as soon as he hears about them in the two hospitals that are near us.

It sounds like the 83 year old priest you have is just making do with the large responsibility he now has. Of course it makes it difficult for parishioners of all ages when there are communication problems, and he doesn’t understand more personal communication is necessary. Is it possible that a polite letter to the bishop explaining tactfully what is happening, at length, would help? In a scenario like you describe many may be turned away.
 
Yes, you go.

It is not the priest who makes the Church, and although you certainly hope for a kind and personable priest you pray for ones that aren’t. You are there for the sacrifice of the Mass so unite your misgivings with Christ’s sacrifice and pray.

If there are serious concerns, the parish council needs to talk to the priest. If they need assistance they should work with the priest in charge of the Deanery and/or the Vicar for Priests of the diocese. Abusive behavior is not acceptable and someone needs to be aware of it.
 
Wow! That is a sad situation! I would agree with the person who suggested that your family visit the distant parish whenever weather permits. The parish I attend has really wonderful people who make me feel that I’m among family but my priest is one reason I’m so happy with my home parish. He is very much like you described your former priest. I’m not sure what his age is but I’d guess mid-seventies so of course I’m already dreading the day we go through a transition. Perhaps given his age, you will get a new, more personable priest in the near future since as someone suggested retirement might be coming soon. Best wishes.
 
Difficult situation.
I have been through a couple of bad experiences as well and it can be tough.

As others have said, you do need to tough it out as best you can. If things really seem out of hand, you can contact the chancery perhaps they could look into it.
An 83 y.o. priest could have medical/mental issues. I’m not saying this is the case but we just don’t know…

In any event you have a wonderful reminder of why we should pray for and encourage more vocations to the priesthood among our young men. 👍
Then it would not be necessary for an 83 y.o. priest to be looking after two parishes.

Good Luck

Peace
James
 
He was already of retirement age. But asked for permission to come out of retirement because he was bored.

He is temporary BUT is there to serve the 6yrs or until he can no longer serve (becomes incapacitated). I was told that no other priest would come out our way. But I was told or at least under the assumption that the Bishop placed the priests. That they went where he told them to go. So which is it?

This ‘new’ priest was in charge of the three churches that our priest has gone to. They were struggling. So if this makes any sense. Our priest was sent to the churches that were struggling and the priest from those struggling churches came to our church. Which we’ve been struggling with ourselves because we don’t live in a very large city. Its a very small one with 7,000 people and we are surrounded with many Protestant churches in our area. We only have 2 Catholic churches and I’m waiting for this guy to close the 2nd church down.

Its just sad. Our last priest was 59 years old. Was the kind of guy that made himself at home. None of it makes sense to me. We were under the impression that the priests go where they were told to go. I didn’t realize they chose where they wanted to go.
 
TracyR said:
He was already of retirement age. But asked for permission to come out of retirement because he was bored.

He is temporary BUT is there to serve the 6yrs or until he can no longer serve (becomes incapacitated).** I was told that no other priest would come out our way. **But I was told or at least under the assumption that the Bishop placed the priests. That they went where he told them to go. So which is it?
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Who told you that? Unless it was the Bishop or his designee in charge of preist assignments, you should take that comment with a “grain of salt”.

I am sure it works a little different in every diocese but assignments are usually made in consultation with the priest. The final word is the Bishop’s but he doesn’t want to assign a priest somewhere where he will be unhappy. That would be even worse than your current situation. Our priests have a lot of challenges and the Bishops try very hard to meet everyone’s needs - parishioners’, the diocese at large AND the priest’s.
 
I know what you mean in losing a Priest you have enjoyed but what you haven’t tried is talking to this man. Introduce yourself, tell him your story, see what he has to say. Then after some chatting ask to speak with him about certain things that are happening in the church you are concerned about. Remember this, the Priest is their for YOU. He is your servent not some “demi-god”. The first will be last and the last shall be first.

See what he says. Talk with the Parish Council and the liturgy group about your concerns. Depending on your leadership things could be averted if Father was told.
 
I really believe it. The priests from the city (which is 45 miles away ) tend to stay in the city. We are part of the county but most people in the city will say " You live all the way out there??" as if we live on the planet Mars or something.

I know one of the ladies at a different church posted the standardized testing site out for our area and the people in the city were so upset and angry that they have to drive out our way ( but its okay when we have to drive their way to the city).
I believe the person who told us because everything that person said has come true.
This person from the church said that they were so embarrassed that no one would consider coming out our way and that its embarassing to our parish that people think so little of it.

This new priest doesn’t care about what the people in the church has to say. Its his way or no way. He shoots down what the parish counsel has to say.

He even apologized today at Mass from the embarassment he made during Mass when he told someone to take their kid out of the church because they were making noise (which happened to be the music director’s child). But his apology actually made it worse because his message was , kids make noise and I don’t like that. It disturbs the service and annoys me." Had I been that family I would have been angry too.
I guess we went from having a priest that loved having children in the church, the noise didn’t bother him. To someone who really wants to get rid of the kids.
They are starting up a children’s church so that they are out of the church during the service!!!
Luckily for me my children are very well behaved (came from sitting in Protestant churches and my children never wanting to go to Sunday school and be with a stranger). But to have that feeling that children are not welcome and bothersome to him is very disturbing.
 
TracyR said:
Hello all. Its been a while since I’ve last posted on here. We were all recieved into the church this Easter Vigil (2011) and what a wonderful thing

fall fox

It must be a wonderful and rewarding journey to be an adult and go through the process of a search to find our Lord and His Church. Welcome, welcome, welcome, Try to involve yourselves as much as possible. Involve yourselves in your chirch festival, the Liturgy committee, you can sit in, even though you are not a member, it gives you a real feel of your Parish. You can ask to sit in on the Parish Council. Make yourself a person your Parish feels that they just can’t do without, a person they come to relie on.

About your Pastor. this is a tough situation. A Parish is not only a place of worship, a place to receive our Lord in the Holy Eucharist. Also a place of fellowship and learning, It is also a business to run and with debts to pay, Your Pastor is 83 years old and is running two businesses (Parishes). He is probably a guy that wants to retire but can not because of the shortage of Priests. He has no right though, to take it out on his parishiners.
Now if you are accurate in what you say, and I have no reason to doubt, I would suggest writing an e-mail to the Office of Worship in your Diocese, and discribe as you did here, the problems in your Parish. I don’t recommend going to another Parish, as you said the Parish and it’s people are not the problem.
Of course Pastors are people just like us and can become overwhelmed just like anyone else.
God bless and step carefully
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Not to be mean, but IMHO, age 83 is by definition “incapacitated.” This poor man is too old, weary and irritable for the task of full-time pastor. He may be showing signs of senility/dementia.

For example, why does he “NOT WANT TO KNOW NAMES”? Maybe he realizes he could not possibly remember them. Impulsive actions like selling the old items, is also a sign of dementia. Impatience and annoyance such as with the servers is a common trait of old age as a person’s attention span wavers and they feel frustrated and take it out on others. A 45-minute mass? Maybe he can’t wait to go to the bathroom or has another medical condition. All these things are SERIOUS MEDICAL features of old age and sometimes also dementia.

I am NOT making fun of your priest. In fact, my guess is in his younger years he was very devoted, maybe even made a promise to serve until he dropped dead. There’s a shortage and he was not going to ask the Bishop to retire when he can still function. But what he does not see is he is not really functioning FULLY or WELL. He is hanging on by a thread. How you address this with the bishop requires extreme care, sensitivity, a committed small group, courtesy, respect…and documentation of mental/physical incapacity, which I believe you have.

Our pastor just retired at age 83. He barely made it. Into his 80’s he was still a bundle of energy, then suddenly little problems, falls, fatigue, and it was clear he is OK but declining and needs to retire.

A religious order in California just made a rule that any priest age 80 or more must retire. Before they would let individual health determine if they could teach or work. But now they realize 80 is old, the person is frail mentally and emotionally and physically.

Your priest is possibly more to be pitied that censured. This grumbling, nasty attitude is caused by stress, depression, fatigue, senility, or possibly even TIA’s or other medical problems undiscovered. If a wise, discreet group could analyze his weak areas and figure out how to address this respectfully, maybe he could retire or go somewhere as a part-time priest with light duties.
 
We have introduced ourselves to him. He doesn’t care who we are. If you asked him who we were or what our names were he couldn’t tell you and literally doesn’t care. He’s just there to do the service and leave. That’s pretty much it. Other people have reached out to him and he told them " Don’t tell me your name because I won’t remember it."

As for meeting up with everyone else. They aren’t making much headway with him. Its his way or the high way.
He’s not interested in what our congregation has to say.
My 8yr old ask why Jesus ( the processional cross) was in the back ( the sacrasity). He’s moved everything around. Taken out things , put statues away , and so forth. He doesn’t care what any of us have to say.
He has had meetings with people and they try and tell him and he says " Listen, I’m not your last priest. This is the way I do things."
and that’s the end of it.
 
Margie9 said:
Not to be mean, but IMHO, age 83 is by definition “incapacitated.” This poor man is too old, weary and irritable for the task of full-time pastor. He may be showing signs of senility/dementia.

For example, why does he “NOT WANT TO KNOW NAMES”? Maybe he realizes he could not possibly remember them. Impulsive actions like selling the old items, is also a sign of dementia. Impatience and annoyance such as with the servers is a common trait of old age as a person’s attention span wavers and they feel frustrated and take it out on others. A 45-minute mass? Maybe he can’t wait to go to the bathroom or has another medical condition. All these things are SERIOUS MEDICAL features of old age and sometimes also dementia.

I am NOT making fun of your priest. In fact, my guess is in his younger years he was very devoted, maybe even made a promise to serve until he dropped dead. There’s a shortage and he was not going to ask the Bishop to retire when he can still function. But what he does not see is he is not really functioning FULLY or WELL. He is hanging on by a thread. How you address this with the bishop requires extreme care, sensitivity, a committed small group, courtesy, respect…and documentation of mental/physical incapacity, which I believe you have.

Our pastor just retired at age 83. He barely made it. Into his 80’s he was still a bundle of energy, then suddenly little problems, falls, fatigue, and it was clear he is OK but declining and needs to retire.

A religious order in California just made a rule that any priest age 80 or more must retire. Before they would let individual health determine if they could teach or work. But now they realize 80 is old, the person is frail mentally and emotionally and physically.

Your priest is possibly more to be pitied that censured. This grumbling, nasty attitude is caused by stress, depression, fatigue, senility, or possibly even TIA’s or other medical problems undiscovered. If a wise, discreet group could analyze his weak areas and figure out how to address this respectfully, maybe he could retire or go somewhere as a part-time priest with light duties.
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I believe you bring up some very good points. That I think I need to address with others. I don’t think this priest is full capacitated at all. These odd behaviors really make me think that something is going on with him.
Even today, I told my husband, that I noticed his right hand was shaking a little when he was holding the ciborium . Thank you for bringing this up. This really does add to the puzzle.
 
fall_fox said:
TracyR;8377680:
Hello all. Its been a while since I’ve last posted on here. We were all recieved into the church this Easter Vigil (2011) and what a wonderful thing

fall fox

It must be a wonderful and rewarding journey to be an adult and go through the process of a search to find our Lord and His Church. Welcome, welcome, welcome, Try to involve yourselves as much as possible. Involve yourselves in your chirch festival, the Liturgy committee, you can sit in, even though you are not a member, it gives you a real feel of your Parish. You can ask to sit in on the Parish Council. Make yourself a person your Parish feels that they just can’t do without, a person they come to relie on.

About your Pastor. this is a tough situation. A Parish is not only a place of worship, a place to receive our Lord in the Holy Eucharist. Also a place of fellowship and learning, It is also a business to run and with debts to pay, Your Pastor is 83 years old and is running two businesses (Parishes). He is probably a guy that wants to retire but can not because of the shortage of Priests. He has no right though, to take it out on his parishiners.
Now if you are accurate in what you say, and I have no reason to doubt, I would suggest writing an e-mail to the Office of Worship in your Diocese, and discribe as you did here, the problems in your Parish. I don’t recommend going to another Parish, as you said the Parish and it’s people are not the problem.
Of course Pastors are people just like us and can become overwhelmed just like anyone else.
God bless and step carefully
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Its just been very tough this past month. I’ve been trying to give him a good chance because I always know what its like to be the ‘new guy’ in town.
His not retiring was not because he can’t. Its because he won’t. We were told he wanted to come out of retirement because he was bored. So he wrote a letter to the Bishop and asked to come out of retirement. Of course our Bishop is 75 yrs old himself. He just retired but has not been let go yet. Because he doesn’t want to. He is though of very good health so still has some time while a Bishop is being searched for.

Many people are right though. Something has got to be done to encourage young men to serve otherwise more and more of this is going to happen to other churches and I don’t think people are thinking of the future or long term.
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TracyR said:
Something has got to be done to encourage young men to serve…
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That “something” is that parents must live fully Catholic lives and raise their children with a strong Catholic identity. Parents must be open to the thought of their son being called to the priesthood and not assume that their son will marry. Parents and their children should be active in the parish, not just by attending Mass every Sunday, but also by participating in the spiritual and social activities of the parish. Catholicism must be a part of who the child is. If parents do these things, then the idea of priesthood has something to grow on.
 
For the last 20+ years we have only had one priest. Fortunately, we have had very good pastors, all three arrived here under the age of 40. And yet we have had to adjust to the way that each of them do things. When they take a needed vacation or go on retreat, we have a substitue priest. And usually the substitutes are retired priests used to doing things the way that they have always done them. They help out when needed at parishes other than ours. When they help out at our parish, most of them at least attempt to do things the way that we do them, meaning the correct way. But we are grateful to have these substitute priests. Without them, we would have no Mass. And having a priest to celebrate Mass and the sacraments is the most important thing. Some of the ladies go out of their way to feed them and make them feel welcome and tell them how much we appreciate having them with us.
 
TracyR said:
Hello all. Its been a while since I’ve last posted on here. We were all recieved into the church this Easter Vigil (2011) and what a wonderful thing it was.
In the process we had a wonderful priest. So kind, so laid back, had that ‘grandpa’ type of personality with the children of the parish. They all loved him.
As an adult he was the type of person that just you never wanted to disappoint. The two deacons of the church just seemed to mesh with him and they made a great ‘team’. Going to Mass was an enjoyable experience for us. We had finally felt like we found a church that we could settle down with. Our masses were a little longer than normal but were so meaningful. You could feel life in the church (one of many reasons we joined), Our priest would mention things going on in the community , those who were sick and needed prayer and so forth. I can’t explain it all here but we as a family felt at home. He had Mass every Friday for the children at the school and that was so enjoyable. He had such a way with the kids that they loved it and wished they could have Mass everyday. I would take my Friday mornings and go just to sit in and see what the kids would say.
That was until recently. Well sadly it was the end of 11 yrs of service, and was part of a transition of priests in the diocese this year. :<(
So we were not fortunate to have gotten to really enjoy having him as pastor for very long.

So along comes the new guy. Well, the new guy is 83 years old, and decides that he is going to change everything that the church had built up in one foul swoop. He blows through the mass, doesn’t like it when children make noise and has already insulted the director of music in our church (so today we no longer had music to sing at Mass). he is selling off things in the Parish that he feels he doesn’t need ( selling off historical items that were given to the church from other churches that had once existed). He is rude to the altar servers. Not telling the kids what he wants. Our priest had things a certain way and did them differently and so the kids, Euchristic ministers are so confused. My daughters are new to altar serving and they were just about in tears when serving with this guy because , one they were new, and two he would make faces if they didn’t do something he wanted when he wanted it done. But they have never been shown how he does things.
He doesn’t know us, doesn’t want to know anyone( has even mentioned that he doesn’t want to know names). We just have a quick 45 minute mass an its over. That’s it.
When we go now you can feel the sadness in the air. It feels like all of the happiness and life that was once there has all been sucked out of the church. My children no longer want to go to Mass and my husband no longer feels like its a place he wants to be, as well as I. Yet I do enjoy the families that are there.

Maybe we’ve been spoiled by the other priest we had. I don’t know. But really, I feel like we’re watching a church just implode on itself. Not to mention that the church also has a school which is really struggling right now ( with only 64 kids between prek-6th grade ) so the school itself is in danger of closing at any time.
Its just really sad. We haven’t seen the deacons at all since the new priest came in.
I hope I’m making sense here. Its just really difficult to go from having joined such a happy , wonderful, church to now a church where everyone looks like they don’t even want to be there. This priest is there for 6 yrs or until he becomes incapacitated. Which ever comes first.
I know that the Eucharist is the most important part of the Mass. But when you dread going to church. Do you still just go? It doesn’t seem right to do so though. Just putting up with someone until he either dies or becomes incapacitated.

Some would say go to another church. Well we only have two churches in our area, both ran by the same priest. The next closest one is 10 miles away. But on a really bad road in the winter time. The next closest is about 25 miles away. So its just like everyone is there, going through the motions. Its no longer the same church it once was.
What does one do in this situation? Being new to the Catholic faith I find myself not sure about any of this.
Has anyone gone through something similar? What do you do? I know other members have written to the Bishop and so forth. But its done no good. I just feel like things are going to continue to get worse and worse.
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Hang in there continue to go to Mass at our parish we had a priest who had a clique of well to do friends even made it clear that he only wanted to associate with them and he sold most of our statues and got us into several million dollars debt and only invited his well to do friends to the St Joseph feast dinner even had police at the doors to make sure us more common folks didn’t come in well we had to put up with him for 15 years when he retired we got one of the auxillary bishops that was elected and it was a major difference for the better The bishop has succeed in paying of about 1/4 of the debt we now have a St Joseph dinner that we are all invited to we are now working on a carnival that everyone can come to for a nominal fee our former priest only had it for the children of the friends in his clique and to make it even better we now have 2 assistant priest who are very down to earth very personable and teach the true Catholic faith so hang in there my prayers are with you
Our new pastor even loves dogs and said that he would love to have a petting zoo for Easter for the children in the parish and at the parish school.
 
You are brand new Catholics. I can only imagine how you must feel after going through RCIA and discernment with your former pastor and now having a new priest with a different personality as your new pastor. Let me just offer some observations and perhaps a small bit of advice.

First of all, I strongly suspect that your new priest is not officially your pastor, but is only a temporary administrator of the parish. I suspect as much solely on the basis of his age. I think that you should ascertain this priest’s status: whether he is an administrator or not. I am sure that one of your deacons could find out that particular piece of information, or you could contact your former pastor at his new parish and ask him.

An administrator has specific defined obligations under canon law. He is obligated to fulfill the needs of the parish community while the parish is without a resident pastor. However, he is not to do anything which would prejudice the new pastor once he is appointed. This would include disbursal of property or of initiating new programs which would require additional funding. The parish should exist status quo.

I am further concerned about the situation with your bishop. You have stated that he is 75 and has tendered his resignation as per canon law. Since no new bishop has been appointed as of yet, it may take some while before you do get a new bishop since the Apostolic Nuncio to the US has recently died and a new one has not been appointed. Vacant sees may be delayed being filled as a result.

I am very concerned about the status of your parish school. Having a school in such a small rural parish is very troubling. It would be a sizeable expense and it may well be that it cannot be self-sustaining for too much longer. That may be the reason why it has been difficult to get a new pastor appointed to your parish.

Things are not hopeless. The laity of the parish will have to step up to the challenge at hand along with the two deacons and come together to meet with the new priest and discern how the parish needs to move forward. Even if the new priest is indeed your new pastor (which I doubt), it is highly unlikely that he would be comfortable in remaining for a full term as pastor, much less two full terms. It would be to everyone’s best interests to meet as a group and decide how the parish is to move forward and to present this plan to your bishop so that he can have it at the ready for when he is replaced. Furthermore, the priests in the diocese, once they understand that the parish community is working together with a coordinated plan for a vibrant community, there will be more interest in men coming forward to be your shepherd.

I wish you the best and I shall pray for your success.
 
TracyR said:
I was told that no other priest would come out our way. But I was told or at least under the assumption that the Bishop placed the priests. That they went where he told them to go. So which is it?
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Yes and no. Yes the Bishop has the full authority on where to assign his priests. But no, he doesn’t do so without some form of consultation.
If a bishop were to assign a priest to a place that he 110% did not want to be then what good could possibly come from such an assignment? So its not that the bishop doesn’t have the authority to make whatever assignment he wants its just that its not always productive to do so.
None of it makes sense to me. We were under the impression that the priests go where they were told to go. I didn’t realize they chose where they wanted to go.
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While a priest might be able to “veto” a possible assignment that doesn’t mean he gets to choose whatever assignment he wants. At some point the bishop can tell him where to go (not sure if a pun is intended there or not)…
 
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