Church, Religious Orders after Vatican II

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Be certain to keep a skeptical eye open while watching Fr. Barrons’ series, he tends to have rather … “unconventional” views on certain subjects, such as this video found on youtube.

Note how he views Adam. Not exactly in line with the Church. 🤷
The Catholicism series has the nihil obstat and the imprimatur. They contain nothing contrary to the faith. Furthermore, there are multiple threads on the series on CAF. To prevent derailing this one any further than it is right now, I would ask you and others to please take discussion of Fr. Barron or his works, to one of them.

I’m not trying to be a jerk and I apologize for being direct, but up until today we have had a remarkably focused and interesting thread on the topic at hand. I would hate to see it shut down or spin off topic into never never land.

Peace,
 
The Catholicism series has the nihil obstat and the imprimatur. They contain nothing contrary to the faith. Furthermore, there are multiple threads on the series on CAF. To prevent derailing this one any further than it is right now, I would ask you and others to please take discussion of Fr. Barron or his works, to one of them.

I’m not trying to be a jerk and I apologize for being direct, but up until today we have had a remarkably focused and interesting thread on the topic at hand. I would hate to see it shut down or spin off topic into never never land.

Peace,
Really? Maybe you should read the OP again. I haven’t seen a relevant post in days…

…you guys sure are uptight tonight. 😛
 
Really? Maybe you should read the OP again. I haven’t seen a relevant post in days…

…you guys sure are uptight tonight. 😛
I have read the OP as I have been involved in the thread from the get go. Yes, it has spun a bit but it is still at least revolving around religious in more modern times. In that, it is close enough and about as good as one can hope for in any thread this long.

Is it an unreasonable request to take topics that are totally and completely different to a more appropriate thread? I thought I was fairly nice about it… 🤷
 
I have read the OP as I have been involved in the thread from the get go. Yes, it has spun a bit but it is still at least revolving around religious in more modern times. In that, it is close enough and about as good as one can hope for in any thread this long.

Is it an unreasonable request to take topics that are totally and completely different to a more appropriate thread? I thought I was fairly nice about it… 🤷
You were. It’s good. Let the thread return to its original topic. Sorry about the momentary diversion.

[EDIT: Actually, given that this is a thread about religious orders post V2, and we have been talking about the diversity of charisms, which is more evident because of the return to origins post-V2, this isn’t too far off topic as of just a few posts ago. Although the bit about videos and all that, well… Back to the topic. 🙂 ]
 
I have read the OP as I have been involved in the thread from the get go. Yes, it has spun a bit but it is still at least revolving around religious in more modern times. In that, it is close enough and about as good as one can hope for in any thread this long.

Is it an unreasonable request to take topics that are totally and completely different to a more appropriate thread? I thought I was fairly nice about it… 🤷
You’ll be fine, have a great night! 👍
 
We have to be very careful when we look at religious life before Vatican II, after Vatican II or after Vatican III.

There are some points that we have to keep in mind.

The first one being that none of us, including me, has been appointed by the Holy See to evaluate them, their performance of their achievements. That right belongs only to the Church. If they are communities of Pontifical Right, it belongs to the Holy See. If they are communities of Diocesan Right, it belongs to the bishop of their home diocese. The way that we speak can often sound authoritative. To the non-Catholic or the poorly educated Catholic such a way of speaking about something over which we have no authority may sound as if the Church is a free for all where all voices are equally authoritative and all opinions count. These folks don’t know that 99.999999% of what is said on these fora is of little to no concern to the Holy See.

This leads to the second point. The Holy See has made up its mind about these orders, their charism, their mission and their place in the Church. If a change is necessary, this happens through dialogue between the Holy See and the orders. They Council of Trent made it very clear that neither the bishops nor the laity have a voice in matters that concern the orders. It’s a free country. Everyone can express an opinion. However, everyone must also acknowledge that his or her opinion carries no weight in the Church. Even the opinion of an individual religious who belongs to one of these orders has no merit before the Church. The Church does not operate this way. The Church examines the mind of the founder, the rule and constitutions of the order, the deliberations of the general chapter, the decisions of the Major Superior and his/her council and the behavior of the orders.

My final point is that assessing the place and success of a charism is a major undertaking that takes years of observation, study, dialogue and discernment. Therefore, we have to be very careful that we don’t jump to post quick conclusions with a small amount of information. This is especially true when speaking about the spirituality and methods of people like St. Francis and Bl. Teresa of Calcutta. These two very unique individuals were given a vision that most of us can’t see. They were not called to be practical or even effective. They were called to go further than that. They were called to faithful.

In our 21st century mindset, we tend to focus on outcome and results. People like Francis and Teresa were not called to focus on either of those. They were called to go where Christ led and to leave the outcome to Him. Their sons and daughters strive to walk down the same pathway. This kind of detachment is the height of poverty. Apostolic poverty finds its expression in total dependence on Christ.

When asked about the outcome of their work, St. Francis and Mother Teresa always gave the same answer. In our language it would go something like this. “I don’t know. Ask God.” 🤷

I believe that the world needs this kind of detachment probably even more than it needs converts. The best conversions come from those who are drawn by love. We can use any religious family, but for the sake of this discussion, let’s just look at the Franciscans and the Missionaries of Charity. They not only converted great numbers of men and women, but many of their converts joined them. Just look at the rate of growth of these two families and others like them. If we read the writings of the Franciscans and the Missionaries of Charity the first thing they’ll tell you is how the holiness of their founders inspired them to follow the Gospel.

We need more men and women like them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
 
You were. It’s good. Let the thread return to its original topic. Sorry about the momentary diversion.

[EDIT: Actually, given that this is a thread about religious orders post V2, and we have been talking about the diversity of charisms, which is more evident because of the return to origins post-V2, this isn’t too far off topic as of just a few posts ago. Although the bit about videos and all that, well… Back to the topic. 🙂 ]
Cheers.
 
A little while ago in this thread, the topic came up about the role that the Order of Preachers played in the post-reformation as compared to that of the Jesuits. In the event that anyone is interested, I came across what appears to be a relatively rare book that discusses this exact topic. amazon.com/Friars-Frontier-Catholic-Christendom-1300-1700/dp/1409405958/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3MMYOBHPGA3CO&colid=2T70ZJYNJ8XOE

It is quite expensive so it will likely be some time before I am able to get a copy but I wanted to share anyway.

Peace, and have a blessed Christmas!
 
A little while ago in this thread, the topic came up about the role that the Order of Preachers played in the post-reformation as compared to that of the Jesuits. In the event that anyone is interested, I came across what appears to be a relatively rare book that discusses this exact topic. amazon.com/Friars-Frontier-Catholic-Christendom-1300-1700/dp/1409405958/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3MMYOBHPGA3CO&colid=2T70ZJYNJ8XOE

It is quite expensive so it will likely be some time before I am able to get a copy but I wanted to share anyway.

Peace, and have a blessed Christmas!
Awesome, thanks! 😃
 
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