Church Sanctioned Feasts

[Doreen]

I have a question that maybe someone out there can answer. In the past three months there have been three different fall fests put on by the local Catholic Diocese to raise funds for their school and church programs.

At each of these fests the first thing you walk by when you pay your entry fee is the beer tent. What I have witnessed all of my life is that one of the biggest money-makers for the parishes in this state is to hold several of these beer fests. They have games and other activities available, but the center of the event is the beer tent.

I even went to one church picnic and was asked to join in a volleyball game before the mass began. There was a keg on each corner of the volleyball court. Some indulged before mass, and then returned after mass to indulge some more.

If we are Christians, in the Catholic Church, we are instructed to put no stumbling block in our brother’s way. Many of the Catholic men (and women) in this state struggle with alcoholism, and yet their church supports this sin with a beer bash.

I have a problem with the message sent here. It’s almost like the church sees it as worth the risk of causing the parish member to fall, so that the finances of the church can thrive.

Perhaps you will say that this is uncommon. I can tell you, in this state and neighboring states, it’s FAR from uncommon. It is the norm. How is it that the Catholic administration would condone this kind of fundraising??

(I could say all the same about the weekly BINGO events…which is gambling, mind you. Again…putting a stumbling block in our brother’s and sister’s way. Many struggle with gambling…and our state now encourages it with a lottery and numerous casinos.)

If we are Christians, we are to encourage one another, and build each other up.

I could never return to my Catholic roots because I see this terrible contradiction in the Catholic Church’s practice.

Eager to hear your comments on this.
In His Grip!
D.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

I have a question that maybe someone out there can answer. In the past three months there have been three different fall fests put on by the local Catholic Diocese to raise funds for their school and church programs.

At each of these fests the first thing you walk by when you pay your entry fee is the beer tent. What I have witnessed all of my life is that one of the biggest money-makers for the parishes in this state is to hold several of these beer fests. They have games and other activities available, but the center of the event is the beer tent.

I even went to one church picnic and was asked to join in a volleyball game before the mass began. There was a keg on each corner of the volleyball court. Some indulged before mass, and then returned after mass to indulge some more.

If we are Christians, in the Catholic Church, we are instructed to put no stumbling block in our brother’s way. Many of the Catholic men (and women) in this state struggle with alcoholism, and yet their church supports this sin with a beer bash.

I have a problem with the message sent here. It’s almost like the church sees it as worth the risk of causing the parish member to fall, so that the finances of the church can thrive.

Perhaps you will say that this is uncommon. I can tell you, in this state and neighboring states, it’s FAR from uncommon. It is the norm. How is it that the Catholic administration would condone this kind of fundraising??

(I could say all the same about the weekly BINGO events…which is gambling, mind you. Again…putting a stumbling block in our brother’s and sister’s way. Many struggle with gambling…and our state now encourages it with a lottery and numerous casinos.)

If we are Christians, we are to encourage one another, and build each other up.

I could never return to my Catholic roots because I see this terrible contradiction in the Catholic Church’s practice.

Eager to hear your comments on this.
In His Grip!
D.

The Catholic church is a drinking organisation.
Yes, there are some who have problems with alcohol. Alcoholism is complex, and it is defined as much by social and personality problems as physical addiction to alcohol. We can’t run society for alcoholics, any more than we can ban shareholding because some play the stockmarket in a silly way.

My mother asked me why our parish club sold beers instead of teas and coffees. The anwer is quite simple. Charge 50p (about a dollar) for a cup of tea and a biscuit, and the old ladies will think they are doing you a favour by coming to the club and buying, because, after all, a cup of tea costs next to nothing to make at home. You need eight old ladies sipping cups of tea to equal one person buying two pints of beer at £2 a go. We had a healthy surplus which could be used for charity or to support parish activities.

 

[kage_ar]

No beer at a church event, because someone might sin by drinking too much.

No bingo at parish events because someone might sin by gambling too much.

Then we need to have:

No food at parish events, because someone might sin by eating too much.

No selling at parish events, because some struggle with spending addiction.

Men and women in separate parish events (wow, that would have to include Mass), because someone might sin by lusting. But then, what about those with same sex attractions, well - then guess it would have to be men who struggle with SSA and women only at one Mass, and women who struggle with SSA and the men at another Mass (gosh, one will need a flow chart to see what Mass to attend).

My point here, drinking beer in and of itself is not sinful.

It is sad that you would turn from the Real Presence and the fullness of Truth because the Parish expects adults to act in a responsible adult Christ-like manner when beer is offered.

 

[Teakafrog]

No beer at a church event, because someone might sin by drinking too much.

No bingo at parish events because someone might sin by gambling too much.

Then we need to have:

No food at parish events, because someone might sin by eating too much.

No selling at parish events, because some struggle with spending addiction.

Men and women in separate parish events (wow, that would have to include Mass), because someone might sin by lusting. But then, what about those with same sex attractions, well - then guess it would have to be men who struggle with SSA and women only at one Mass, and women who struggle with SSA and the men at another Mass (gosh, one will need a flow chart to see what Mass to attend).

My point here, drinking beer in and of itself is not sinful.

It is sad that you would turn from the Real Presence and the fullness of Truth because the Parish expects adults to act in a responsible adult Christ-like manner when beer is offered.

What a wonderful response.
Beer is not sinful. And one would not have to come to a parish event to find beer. It is there for those who choose to drink it responsibly. As the above poster said, you could find a ‘stumbling block’ for every single person at every single event the church holds. That is why we each need to be responsible for our OWN moral development, in knowing that if we have a tendency to a certain sin we should be praying about and seeking ways to overcome it.
So if your sin is, say, pride (refusing the legitimate authority of the Church Christ created) and judging others, what are you doing about it? Or are you waiting for someone else to fix it for you? Jesus said remove the beam from your own eye before looking for the splinter in your brother’s. Same idea.

 

[Damascus]

I have some more shocking news for you. The Church is made up of sinners.
Yes. I know this comes as a total surprise to some, but it must be said once and for all. Sinners. All of them. Even the ones who dont go overboard with beer. Yes. Rest easy knowing there are more sinners of so many different vices they fall into. How do you feel about the Obese? Maybe they should not be allowed to eat at any Church functions? And while we are at it, I say we ought to restrict anyone who has ever sinned. THey outta know better than to be in a Church! So now that I have cleaned up the Church for you, will you qualify to walk in now?

 

[mtk76]

Well if someone was drinking and then went to mass and received the Eucharist I’d say that is a problem. Think about there being a 1 hr fast for Latin rite Catholics before receiving there is no way should receive Christ himself after drinking.

 

[Damascus]

Well if someone was drinking and then went to mass and received the Eucharist I’d say that is a problem. Think about there being a 1 hr fast for Latin rite Catholics before receiving there is no way should receive Christ himself after drinking.

These senarios are so bizzare I really cant believe they are happening. I have never seen or heard of beer served before a Mass. I must be in the only somewhat normal parish in existance reading these posts. Its so ridiculous that I just ignore that part and respond to the bulk of the post.
That one small part of the post is so obviously wrong and no one would disagree with that.

 

[1ke]

These senarios are so bizzare I really cant believe they are happening. I have never seen or heard of beer served before a Mass. I must be in the only somewhat normal parish in existance reading these posts. Its so ridiculous that I just ignore that part and respond to the bulk of the post.
That one small part of the post is so obviously wrong and no one would disagree with that.

I would say it is perception in some cases rather than fact. For example, in my old parish (large, urban with lots of masses) the bazaar started at about 10 or 11 a.m., just after the “main” mass in the morning. But, there were still 2 more English and one Spanish mass after that. So, yes, technically people could come to the festival and then go to Mass. But, by having an all-day festival was the churh encouraging or condoning someone coming to the festival, having beer, and then going to Mass? Absolutely not. One would expect reasonable adults to be able to manage their own behavior and act appropriately. Did someone who has no sense do something like this? Likely, but that is on them. A person so irresponsible or compulsive could just as easily have stopped at the Quick Mart for a beer.

 

[Doreen]

The church is made up of sinners, but we are to be seeking toward the righteousness of Christ and helping our brothers and sisters to do the same. We don’t help them by encouraging them in their sin.

What’s so hard about having a picnic and not offering alcoholic beverages? What’s so hard about not providing opportunities for gambling? You seem to excuse it because “HELL, everyone is doing it…We’re ALL sinners!” So let’s give up the battle and live in our sin?

This is the kind of thinking/theology the devil loves for us to live out. “We are all sinners, there’s no hope for overcoming it.” That’s what it sounds like you are saying. Is that your theology?

What do we look to Christ for? What did he die for? Did he not die for our sins? Did he not die that we might live? Are we not commanded to abide in Him, making ourselves DAILY living sacrifices, that we might not stumble in this present age? If we give up aspiring for righteousness, do you not see, the devil wins?

What I hear most of you saying is just that…“We are all sinners. So it doesn’t matter how we then live.” “We have to expect our brother and sister to act responsibly…if they don’t, that’s their issue.” This is NOT what the scriptures teach us. Where’s the compassion, the accountability in that? Where’s true repentance?

Over-eating may be a weakness for some…and it can surely lead to sinfulness…seeking comfort in anything other than the Lord is sin. So, as you say, sure, providing food can be seen as putting a stumbling block in someone’s way…good point. So perhaps the smorgasbord isn’t a great idea for the church picnic? I don’t know.

I just know that when we live in a culture that is slipping further from respecting the commands of God, we don’t do each other any favors by throwing drunken, gambling parties for our brothers and sisters.

Are we not to be repentent sinners in the church?.. truly desiring to turn away from our sin? Aren’t we to be seeking God’s daily presence and power to keep us from evil?

Where’s the victory?

You seem to accept that we won’t see any. Is God not the Overcomer?

I’m not saying I am 100 percent victorious…but every moment I give to the Lord is the Lord’s…and in that moment, sin has no power over me. And areas of sin that used to trip me, no longer have power over me…because the Lord has brought victory there. As I give him my areas of weakness, he takes them, and brings me the ability to turn away. Isn’t that true for you, brothers and sisters?

Don’t we want that for all? So having these fests, to me, is not an encouragement to live as the Lord would have us to live. So to me, it is wrong.

D.

 

[1ke]

The church is made up of sinners, but we are to be seeking toward the righteousness of Christ and helping our brothers and sisters to do the same. We don’t help them by encouraging them in their sin.

What’s so hard about having a picnic and not offering alcoholic beverages? What’s so hard about not providing opportunities for gambling? You seem to excuse it because “HELL, everyone is doing it…We’re ALL sinners!” So let’s give up the battle and live in our sin?

This is the kind of thinking/theology the devil loves for us to live out. “We are all sinners, there’s no hope for overcoming it.” That’s what it sounds like you are saying. Is that your theology?

Doreen, you are beginning from the premise that drinking alcohol and gambling are sinful. They are not. They are morally neutral activities. Only their abuse is sinful. That is the same for food, money, sex, and any other human endeavor.

The crux of your issue is that you view these activities and inherently sinful, and Catholics do not.

Certainly all things should be in moderation, and therefore any event sponsored by the Church should include safeguards for moderation in consumption, checking IDs, offering a ride home if someone does have too much to drink.

And, if there is something truly out of line going on, then of course the priest of the parish and/or Bishop should be notified.

 

[geezerbob]

Doreen, did Jesus and the apostles sin by drinking wine at the last supper? Simple question. Please answer.

 

[Eden]

I really don’t understand this idea that alcohol, in its essence, is evil. Even scriptures tells us to enjoy alcohol, in moderation. I know St. Patrick had a brewery in Ireland. In fact, we have many examples of monks and their breweries in the earliest centuries of Christianity and the Middle Ages. It was the Cappucian monks who gave us another addictive drink (the Cappuccino), with the addictive ingredient caffeine.

Should we not serve coffee or tea because someone may have a caffeine addiction? Or soft drinks because overindulging causes cavities and obesity (not to mention the caffeine content in most soft drinks)? And what about diet soft drinks? Are those sugar substitutes really safe?

I think we should then ban funnel cakes, too. Since the oil used to cook them has dangerous trans-fatty acids that can lead to clogged arteries and heart attacks.

And what about those hotdogs? What is in those things? Well, I know they have nitrates, which have caused cancer in lab rats.

But really, if someone is a recovering alcoholic and finds the beer tent a tempting destination, then perhaps they should skip the Church festival. Church festivals are, above all, a social event. I think it’s unfair to people who do not have an alcohol addiction to be punished for another’s addiction.

 

[Doreen]

Doreen, you are beginning from the premise that drinking alcohol and gambling are sinful. They are not. They are morally neutral activities. Only their abuse is sinful. That is the same for food, money, sex, and any other human endeavor.

The crux of your issue is that you view these activities and inherently sinful, and Catholics do not.

Certainly all things should be in moderation, and therefore any event sponsored by the Church should include safeguards for moderation in consumption, checking IDs, offering a ride home if someone does have too much to drink.

And, if there is something truly out of line going on, then of course the priest of the parish and/or Bishop should be notified.

Gambling and drinking alcohol may be morally neutral…I don’t have a problem with that statement, but offering a couple glasses of wine, or a beer or two, at a social occasion is different than the festing I have witnessed for years.

I agree that things should be in moderation, and that there should be safeguards, (allow only two beer tickets per person or something like that)…but that’s not what happens.

D.

 

[Doreen]

I really don’t understand this idea that alcohol, in its essence, is evil. Even scriptures tells us to enjoy alcohol, in moderation. I know St. Patrick had a brewery in Ireland. In fact, we have many examples of monks and their breweries in the earliest centuries of Christianity and the Middle Ages. It was the Cappucian monks who gave us another addictive drink (the Cappuccino), with the addictive ingredient caffeine.

Should we not serve coffee or tea because someone may have a caffeine addiction? Or soft drinks because overindulging causes cavities and obesity (not to mention the caffeine content in most soft drinks)? And what about diet soft drinks? Are those sugar substitutes really safe?

I think we should then ban funnel cakes, too. Since the oil used to cook them has dangerous trans-fatty acids that can lead to clogged arteries and heart attacks.

And what about those hotdogs? What is in those things? Well, I know they have nitrates, which have caused cancer in lab rats.

But really, if someone is a recovering alcoholic and finds the beer tent a tempting destination, then perhaps they should skip the Church festival. Church festivals are, above all, a social event. I think it’s unfair to people who do not have an alcohol addiction to be punished for another’s addiction.

That you can put gambling and alcohol in the same package as caffeine use tells me that you don’t live in the same kind of world I grew up in…

Families are destroyed by gambling and alcohol use, friend. I don’t know of many families that have been largely affected by caffeine use.

While expecting the recovering alcoholic to be righteous and responsible, the church plans its “social event” around alcohol consumption. Not really a fair thing for that recovering brother or sister. The same is true for the recovering gambler who has finally gotten their financial house in order. I would think that if they had been convicted of the perils of gambling, they would have to then avoid church events. Seems sad, to me.

They should be “stronger”…but their Catholic brothers and sisters, even elders, seem to condone what has tripped them up and caused them terrible grief. They don’t want to be outside of the social group, so they attend, and they begin the mental battle with satan over it. “Why am I so weak?” “Why can’t I just go enjoy a few with the gang?” “It’s not such a big deal, right?” “Sure, it’s not like it’s a sin to drink!” …

Same person, next day…“Why didn’t I quit after a few?” “I knew I couldn’t handle it!” “What was my problem?” “I’m such a jerk” Various regrets of the night come back to mind (if they can recall it at all)…the devil now convicts them, throws them into turmoil and self-condemnation…

Sure laying the responsibility on everyone to avoid their besetting sins is reality. We have to be responsible ultimately to work out our salvation with fear and trembling…but to not even be able to attend a church-sanctioned event because it is a dangerous place…that’s a problem. The church should realize it is a problem…and consider family-friendly, healthy activities. That’s all.

 

[Damascus]

Go Islam if it is a real issue for you. Enjoy.

 

[Doreen]

Doreen, did Jesus and the apostles sin by drinking wine at the last supper? Simple question. Please answer.

Jesus didn’t hand out bottles of wine and encourage drunkeness. If you read at all about drunkeness, you find that Jesus spoke out against it.

I realize the consumption of a glass of wine is not a problem. Jesus’ stance on this was clear…the apostles knew his stance, and they respected it. I don’t see any stories of them getting blitzed…not that they never did…but surely they did not if they were abiding in the presence of Christ.

The problem rests on the church being the responsible elder in the matter, and that isn’t what I have witnessed. Of all the Catholics I grew up with, a large percentage of them still battle with alcoholism. Drinking may not be sin, but it’s a powerful tool of the devil. Gambling, too.

The church does too little to ward against the dangers of overindulgence…to the point of throwing beer parties. Sad to say, but it’s what is reality in these parts.

 

[1ke]

Jesus didn’t hand out bottles of wine and encourage drunkeness.

Yes, he did. At the Wedding at Cana. He not only made bottles of wine, he made huge, giant vats of it.

If you read at all about drunkeness, you find that Jesus spoke out against it.

You are correct, and no one is advocating drunken debauchery.

The problem rests on the church being the responsible elder in the matter, and that isn’t what I have witnessed. Of all the Catholics I grew up with, a large percentage of them still battle with alcoholism. Drinking may not be sin, but it’s a powerful tool of the devil. Gambling, too.

And, of all the people I know who are alcoholics only one are two are Catholics. I grew up in a household of Protestant alcoholics.

The church does too little to ward against the dangers of overindulgence…to the point of throwing beer parties. Sad to say, but it’s what is reality in these parts.

“The church” doesn’t throw beer parties. A festival that has beer at the event is not a “beer party”. If there are individual parishes that have a problem, the proper channel is to report the issue to the Bishop.

Not every Catholic parish has alcohol at its festival. Our was last weekend, and we did not have alcohol. We did, however, have games of chance for prizes.