Church Statistics (LDS and Catholic)

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A Mormon posted on another thread something that was off topic, so I brought it here. He said that only 25% of Catholics attend Mass.

I have always believed that stats don’t mean anything, especially off polls, because you can manipulate the data too easily to obtain a desired outcome.

But, Since it was brought up, I thought, why not, let’s discuss it.

I have seen a poll that supports what Todd said, only 25% of Catholics attend Mass. I also saw one that said 48% attend Mass. I dunno which is more accurate, but I know that around here, the Catholic Parishes are full. The closest parish, St. Cecila, has 5 Masses each Sunday and one on Saturday and they are all full. That is how most of the parishes are around here. The local LDS branch would be a ward if all the inactive members would attend.

Anyway, I started looking at stats and it seems the LDS is in trouble in this country…growth has slowed to 2.8%. That is really low. One person posted on a LDS Board that 67% of all leaders are over 50. Once they leave, the Church is in trouble because the younger folks simply are not as active.

Another post talked about the fact that most LDS members now reside out of the USA. It went on to discuss that huge percentage of LDS converts out of the USA, especially in third-world countries, are inactive. I would agree with this based on my experience in Honduras. I served as a missionary 1984-1986. In 1992-1993, I was back in Honduras as part of Joint Task Force Bravo during my time in the Army. Almost all of the people who had been baptized when I was there were back to the Catholic Church or some other denomination.

One Mormon stated that 75% of Mormons worldwide were inactive.

It is also fair to note that religious activity in the USA is down in all denominations except Muslim.

Young people are more religiously synical. I have attended Church all my life. My son, 23, believes in God, but does not lie organized religion. He is like many young people.

Our youth are brought up listening to the News tell us God does not exist and you can;t wear religious stuff to school and the Ten Commandments are prohibited, and religious folks are protrayed as nuts on TV and movies. Is it any wonder attendance is down?
 
I’ll post this study, it’s very interesting and the stats apply to reverts (of which I am one).

trushare.com/83APR02/AP02LOW.htm

“Influence of men on church attendance”

"Switzerland released a study in 2000 which concluded that the religious practice of the father of the family that, above all, determines the future attendance at or absence from church of the children.

If both father and mother attend regularly, 33 percent of their children will end up as regular churchgoers, and 41 percent will end up attending irregularly. A quarter of their children will end up not practicing at all.

If the father is irregular and mother regular, 3 percent of the children will subsequently become regulars themselves, while a further 59 percent will become irregulars. Thirty-eight percent will be lost.

If the father is non-practicing and mother regular, 2 percent of children will become regular worshippers, and 37 percent will attend irregularly. Over 60 percent of their children will be lost completely to the church.

In short, if a father does not go to church, no matter how faithful his wife’s devotions, only one child in 50 will become a regular worshipper.

If a father does go regularly, regardless of the practice of the mother, between two-thirds and three-quarters of their children will become churchgoers (regular and irregular).

If a father goes but irregularly to church, regardless of his wife’s devotion, between a half and two-thirds of their offspring will find themselves coming to church regularly or occasionally.

A non-practicing mother with a regular father will see a minimum of two-thirds of her children ending up at church.

In contrast, a non-practicing father with a regular mother will see two-thirds of his children will not go to church. If his wife is similarly negligent that figure rises to 80 percent.
 
P.S. My Mom and Dad attending Mass each week and at each Holy Day.

My Dad was cradle Catholic, my Mom was a non-practicing Protestant who converted to Catholism.

They raised 5 children. We all are baptised and confirmed Catholics.

My brother and youngest sister are nonattending. My oldest sister attends Catholic but …, my next older sister married in the Church and left after the multiple occurances of sexual abuse uncovered in Ohio.
 
Just to keep all in perspective, the Catholic stat was requested after an off topic LDS bash. No LDS poster has criticized the RCC or claimed superiority on service attendance. CARA at Georgetown has been conducting research since at least 1965 on issues of Catholic faith. They have stats on a global level

From the page: Frequently Requested Church Statistics RCC weekly mass attendance in the US has been stable at 22% since 2000 (+/-1%)
I would expect that number jumps significantly if one measured religious holidays instead of weekly. I always recall Easter & Christmas service to be especially full.

I don’t have an authoritative stat on LDS, but STM 'heard" we are equally, with 25% active.

I would love to see attendance stats for LDS and other religions, if someone has the link! 👍

Please let’s not get into a schoolyard peeing match on “my church attendance is better than yours” We’re just sharing info that has a multitude of causal factors and inconsistent methods of delivery or questioning.
 
SirThomasMore said:
A Mormon posted on another thread something that was off topic, so I brought it here. He said that only 25% of Catholics attend Mass.

I have always believed that stats don’t mean anything, especially off polls, because you can manipulate the data too easily to obtain a desired outcome.

But, Since it was brought up, I thought, why not, let’s discuss it.

I have seen a poll that supports what Todd said, only 25% of Catholics attend Mass. I also saw one that said 48% attend Mass. I dunno which is more accurate, but I know that around here, the Catholic Parishes are full. The closest parish, St. Cecila, has 5 Masses each Sunday and one on Saturday and they are all full. That is how most of the parishes are around here. The local LDS branch would be a ward if all the inactive members would attend.

Anyway, I started looking at stats and it seems the LDS is in trouble in this country…growth has slowed to 2.8%. That is really low. One person posted on a LDS Board that 67% of all leaders are over 50. Once they leave, the Church is in trouble because the younger folks simply are not as active.

Another post talked about the fact that most LDS members now reside out of the USA. It went on to discuss that huge percentage of LDS converts out of the USA, especially in third-world countries, are inactive. I would agree with this based on my experience in Honduras. I served as a missionary 1984-1986. In 1992-1993, I was back in Honduras as part of Joint Task Force Bravo during my time in the Army. Almost all of the people who had been baptized when I was there were back to the Catholic Church or some other denomination.

One Mormon stated that 75% of Mormons worldwide were inactive.

It is also fair to note that religious activity in the USA is down in all denominations except Muslim.

Young people are more religiously synical. I have attended Church all my life. My son, 23, believes in God, but does not lie organized religion. He is like many young people.

Our youth are brought up listening to the News tell us God does not exist and you can;t wear religious stuff to school and the Ten Commandments are prohibited, and religious folks are protrayed as nuts on TV and movies. Is it any wonder attendance is down?
Click to expand...
The parish I went to experienced similar problems, and it is the largest Roman Catholic parish west of the Mississippi (5,000+ families). It was largely sustained by old Italians, Croatians, and Filipinos, and younger immigrants from Latin America. For the majority of the parishes here in L.A; this is the case, in my experiece. Of my grandparents 8 grandchildren, all baptized and confirmed, only 4 attend Mass with any regularity, and of their 5 children, only 1 attends Mass regularly, and no, it is not my father. Of my other grandparent’s children, 1 out of 3 attends Mass regularly, again, not my mother, and of 4 grandchildren, only I attend at all. So out of my immediate family, out of 20 people, 4 attend. Seems about normal, unfortunately. In my wife’s 3rd generation Mexican family NONE out over 50 attend Mass AT ALL. The local parish youth groups lost 100% of their active members after 1 year of college, and 50% of it numbers drop each year of high school, until and handful are left Senior year. Of the 95 classmates of my Catholic high school, less than 12 attend Mass at all, and we had an excellent Norbertine education!

This is what I know of my local situation, and it is not pretty. I cannot speak for the rest of the country. The handful of active people I know of my age are extremely conservative, including myself, so this may be the face of the Church in 20 years, very small, very conservative, but maybe better?🤷
 
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
  • 2 Thess 2:2-4
 
It just goes to show that we (somewhat) catechized Catholics have to roll up our sleeves and work really hard to bring the others along.

It’s not about numbers here on earth, but about souls spending eternity in Heaven.

We have to make sure the poorly catechized do not go like lambs to the slaughter and fall victim to the wolves!

St. Patrick…pray for us!
St. Francis of Assisi…pray for us!
 
We need to immunize our young against the insidious false doctrines that lead people away from the church. Teach them how to recognize the tactics that the enemy uses. Teaching them the Marian doctrines. The nature of the Trinity and God. The good things the Church has been responsible for. The ways in which the Church has gone off track, the reasons, and the corrections. Understanding the perils of substance abuse, which often leads to unchaste behavior. and on and on.
 
When I was going to the LDS church regularly, I was told if enough inactive singles came every Sunday there would be enough to start a singles ward. I guess most of them dropped out for one reason or another. Some told the church not to contact them again.

I’m reading the Mormon Murders right now and it mentions the low weekly attendance in many wards, also there’s a good number of so called faithful Mormons who don’t even read the Book of Mormon and find it dull and boring. I’m very close friends with an LDS woman who just got her PHD, so she’s smart enough to read. She’s in her upper 40’s. She joined as a teen. In all those years she said she never read the Book of Mormon all the way through and was just now listening to an audio version of it. I asked her if she can read other books then why not the BoM. She gave some lame excuse, her brain just can’t understand it or something.

When I went to my first Stake Conference the topic was missionary work and the Stake President urged people to read the Book of Mormon. He said - at least read it once, and after that read it again and again. He also told the future missionaries they need to read the Book of Mormon before they go on a mission. When I heard that I asked myself - uh, haven’t all missionaries read the Book of Mormon dozens of times in the past and have it all memorized? Why the need to even mention it?

So, I don’t think LDS are as hardcore Christians I as once thought they were.
 
Todd520 said:
Just to keep all in perspective, the Catholic stat was requested after an off topic LDS bash. No LDS poster has criticized the RCC or claimed superiority on service attendance.
Click to expand...
You realize that not everything posted about the lds church on these threads is a “bash” right?

I think its interesting that if a Catholic poster says something, it is a “bash”, but if an lds poster says something it is a criticism.

Maybe you should rethink some of these word choices.

You seem to enjoy using bash, slander, and several other inflammatory words at the drop of a hat, as has been demonstrated on other threads where you have posted.

You very well could have used a non volatile statement like “the Catholic stat was requested after an off topic lds criticism, (or, off topic statement)”.
 
SirThomasMore said:
A Mormon posted on another thread something that was off topic, so I brought it here. He said that only 25% of Catholics attend Mass.

I have always believed that stats don’t mean anything, especially off polls, because you can manipulate the data too easily to obtain a desired outcome.

But, Since it was brought up, I thought, why not, let’s discuss it.

I have seen a poll that supports what Todd said, only 25% of Catholics attend Mass. I also saw one that said 48% attend Mass. I dunno which is more accurate, but I know that around here, the Catholic Parishes are full. The closest parish, St. Cecila, has 5 Masses each Sunday and one on Saturday and they are all full. That is how most of the parishes are around here. The local LDS branch would be a ward if all the inactive members would attend.

Anyway, I started looking at stats and it seems the LDS is in trouble in this country…growth has slowed to 2.8%. That is really low. One person posted on a LDS Board that 67% of all leaders are over 50. Once they leave, the Church is in trouble because the younger folks simply are not as active.

Another post talked about the fact that most LDS members now reside out of the USA. It went on to discuss that huge percentage of LDS converts out of the USA, especially in third-world countries, are inactive. I would agree with this based on my experience in Honduras. I served as a missionary 1984-1986. In 1992-1993, I was back in Honduras as part of Joint Task Force Bravo during my time in the Army. Almost all of the people who had been baptized when I was there were back to the Catholic Church or some other denomination.

One Mormon stated that 75% of Mormons worldwide were inactive.

It is also fair to note that religious activity in the USA is down in all denominations except Muslim.

Young people are more religiously synical. I have attended Church all my life. My son, 23, believes in God, but does not lie organized religion. He is like many young people.

Our youth are brought up listening to the News tell us God does not exist and you can;t wear religious stuff to school and the Ten Commandments are prohibited, and religious folks are protrayed as nuts on TV and movies. Is it any wonder attendance is down?
Click to expand...
SirThomas More - I know I have asked these questions on another thread but never got an answer. Since you, as a former Mormon, may know I will ask you. However, I would appreciate an answer from our LDS posters as well.

When Mormons baptize dead non-members, do they count these people in their membership?
Do LDS have to be baptized (at least 7 years old) to be counted as members? -or-
Are children younger than 7 (not yet baptized) counted as members?
Are non-tithing Mormons who have left the church but are not officially off the roles counted as members?
What does one have to do to be considered a member?
 
Here is a source for readers Gallup survey

Attend religious services at least monthly (looser than CARA)
79% Mormon (reverse of what STM was told)
53% overall US population

Note that Gallup is self reported.
 
Todd520 said:
Please let’s not get into a schoolyard peeing match on “my church attendance is better than yours” We’re just sharing info that has a multitude of causal factors and inconsistent methods of delivery or questioning.
Click to expand...
Try not to speak out both sides of your mouth. Your stats are misleading. I have told you how it is in my area, Catholic Parishes have 5 or 6 Masses a day each and all are full while the LDS Branch can;t be a Ward due to inactivity. Most of LDS memberships are now in other countries because the LDS Membership growth in the US has slowed to a very slow crawl. The problem is, inactivity in the other countries in at about 70%.

My OP was directed at all denominations, though I mentiuoned only Catholics and Mormons. Read the last paragraph, it is for everyone.
Click to expand...
 
SirThomasMore said:
Try not to speak out both sides of your mouth. Your stats are misleading. I have told you how it is in my area, Catholic Parishes have 5 or 6 Masses a day each and all are full while the LDS Branch can;t be a Ward due to inactivity. Most of LDS memberships are now in other countries because the LDS Membership growth in the US has slowed to a very slow crawl. The problem is, inactivity in the other countries in at about 70%.

My OP was directed at all denominations, though I mentiuoned only Catholics and Mormons. Read the last paragraph, it is for everyone.
Click to expand...
STM, I know different locactions are ‘rocking’ with their activity and I’ve tried to help the disucssion by providing links to the source data.

The Gallup link has better breakdowns for other faiths on idealogy, but not attendance.
 
Todd520 said:
STM, I know different locactions are ‘rocking’ with their activity and I’ve tried to help the disucssion by providing links to the source data.

The Gallup link has better breakdowns for other faiths on idealogy, but not attendance.
Click to expand...
no…the Gallup link is all self reported.

Like I said…I dislike stats and polls of any kind because the data is too easily manipulated. I can only tell you what I see with my own eyes.
 
SirThomasMore said:
no…the Gallup link is all self reported.

Like I said…I dislike stats and polls of any kind because the data is too easily manipulated. I can only tell you what I see with my own eyes.
Click to expand...
Then pray tell, why did you
  • make statistical claims about mormon inactives in another thread
  • open this thread titled Church Statistics
Yes statistics can be misleading but with good methodology they can be quite instructive. Gallup has very identified error margins, they’ve been at it for quite some time.
 
lax16 said:
SirThomas More - I know I have asked these questions on another thread but never got an answer. Since you, as a former Mormon, may know I will ask you. However, I would appreciate an answer from our LDS posters as well.

When Mormons baptize dead non-members, do they count these people in their membership?
Click to expand...
No
Do LDS have to be baptized (at least 7 years old) to be counted as members? -or-
Are children younger than 7 (not yet baptized) counted as members?
Click to expand...
LDS children are normally baptized at age 8, at which point they are considered members. Prior to that, they are on the rolls as “children of record”. I believe they are included in membership statistics.
Are non-tithing Mormons who have left the church but are not officially off the roles counted as members?
Click to expand...
Yes, until they are known to be dead or reach age 110, at which time they are presumed dead and removed from the active rolls. Tithing is not required to remain on the rolls, but a non-tithing member is not “in good standing” and may not hold teaching or leadership positions and is not allowed to attend the temple.
What does one have to do to be considered a member?
Click to expand...
Anyone baptized by LDS priesthood authority is considered LDS until they die or have their names removed from the membership rolls.
 
Todd520 said:
Then pray tell, why did you
  • make statistical claims about mormon inactives in another thread
  • open this thread titled Church Statistics
Yes statistics can be misleading but with good methodology they can be quite instructive. Gallup has very identified error margins, they’ve been at it for quite some time.
Click to expand...
in response to YOUR post on another thread about stats.

lol…The Gallup folks are the ones who admitted polls can be manipulated. Can you truly not see that?
 
SirThomasMore said:
in response to YOUR post on another thread about stats.

lol…The Gallup folks are the ones who admitted polls can be manipulated. Can you truly not see that?
Click to expand...
So are you saying the Georgetown CARA stats are of no use, or are you saying you don’t like them and will discredit all stats, until you find ones you like.
 
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