Church swap with Mormons

[Jack_726]

Stay away from this cult. I had a Mormon business partner for several years. He was a “bishop”. In his efforts to convert me I found out the following about the LDS church: They teach that the Roman Catholic Church is “apostate”. That the Christian Bible is full of lies concocted by the RC Church. The “book of Mormon” is the true scripture. The cross is a “satanic” symbol (you never see a cross in or on a Mormon “church”). God lives on the planet “Kolob” with his several wives. God came down from Kolob and had sexual intercourse with Mary and she conceived Jesus. Jesus and Lucifer are brothers by different mothers. Jesus had three wives, Mary Magdalene and Mary and Martha the sisters of Lazarus. Jesus had several children by his three wives. Jesus is not God.
Mormon men can have more than one wife in the eyes of the “church” (My business partner had 3). Business fraud is OK as long as the “church” gets 10% as a “tithe”. In the “latter days” . . . at the end of the earth . . . God will send space ships down from Kolob to carry living and resurrected Mormons to the “highest celestial realm” to live with God on Kolob. Non-Mormons will stay on earth and be consumed by fire. I found that gaining material wealth . . . by hook or crook . . . is a Mormon’s principal goal in life. You never see a Mormon “missionary” in a poor part of town.

 

[Jack_726]

Stay away from this cult. I had a Mormon business partner for several years. He was a “bishop”. In his efforts to convert me I found out the following about the LDS church: They teach that the Roman Catholic Church is “apostate”. That the Christian Bible is full of lies concocted by the RC Church. The “book of Mormon” is the true scripture. The cross is a “satanic” symbol (you never see a cross in or on a Mormon “church”). God lives on the planet “Kolob” with his several wives. God came down from Kolob and had sexual intercourse with Mary and she conceived Jesus. Jesus and Lucifer are brothers by different mothers. Jesus had three wives, Mary Magdalene and Mary and Martha the sisters of Lazarus. Jesus had several children by his three wives. Jesus is not God.
Mormon men can have more than one wife in the eyes of the “church” (My business partner had 3). Business fraud is OK as long as the “church” gets 10% as a “tithe”. In the “latter days” . . . at the end of the earth . . . God will send space ships down from Kolob to carry living and resurrected Mormons to the “highest celestial realm” to live with God on Kolob. Non-Mormons will stay on earth and be consumed by fire. I found that gaining material wealth . . . by hook or crook . . . is a Mormon’s principal goal in life. You never see a Mormon “missionary” in a poor part of town.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Mormons make no attempt to defend the prophecies of Joseph Smith or his sucessors. No attempt to defend whether the Garden of Eden is in Western Missouri, no attempt to defend the many historical fallicies and inconsistancies of the Book of Mormon.

Actually, that is incorrect. There is a multitude of books, articles, websites, videos, forums, etc created by Latter-day Saints aimed at defending the beliefs, practices, etc. of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Stay away from this cult. I had a Mormon business partner for several years. He was a “bishop”. In his efforts to convert me I found out the following about the LDS church: They teach that the Roman Catholic Church is “apostate”. That the Christian Bible is full of lies concocted by the RC Church. The “book of Mormon” is the true scripture. The cross is a “satanic” symbol (you never see a cross in or on a Mormon “church”). God lives on the planet “Kolob” with his several wives. God came down from Kolob and had sexual intercourse with Mary and she conceived Jesus. Jesus and Lucifer are brothers by different mothers. Jesus had three wives, Mary Magdalene and Mary and Martha the sisters of Lazarus. Jesus had several children by his three wives. Jesus is not God.
Mormon men can have more than one wife in the eyes of the “church” (My business partner had 3). Business fraud is OK as long as the “church” gets 10% as a “tithe”. In the “latter days” . . . at the end of the earth . . . God will send space ships down from Kolob to carry living and resurrected Mormons to the “highest celestial realm” to live with God on Kolob. Non-Mormons will stay on earth and be consumed by fire. I found that gaining material wealth . . . by hook or crook . . . is a Mormon’s principal goal in life. You never see a Mormon “missionary” in a poor part of town.

Fascinating!

 

[Marie5890]

Stay away from this cult. I had a Mormon business partner for several years. He was a “bishop”. In his efforts to convert me I found out the following about the LDS church: They teach that the Roman Catholic Church is “apostate”. That the Christian Bible is full of lies concocted by the RC Church. The “book of Mormon” is the true scripture. The cross is a “satanic” symbol (you never see a cross in or on a Mormon “church”). God lives on the planet “Kolob” with his several wives. God came down from Kolob and had sexual intercourse with Mary and she conceived Jesus. Jesus and Lucifer are brothers by different mothers. Jesus had three wives, Mary Magdalene and Mary and Martha the sisters of Lazarus. Jesus had several children by his three wives. Jesus is not God.
Mormon men can have more than one wife in the eyes of the “church” (My business partner had 3). Business fraud is OK as long as the “church” gets 10% as a “tithe”. In the “latter days” . . . at the end of the earth . . . God will send space ships down from Kolob to carry living and resurrected Mormons to the “highest celestial realm” to live with God on Kolob. Non-Mormons will stay on earth and be consumed by fire. I found that gaining material wealth . . . by hook or crook . . . is a Mormon’s principal goal in life. You never see a Mormon “missionary” in a poor part of town.

Sounds like your experience was with a fundie apostate member and not the member of the LDS church.

 

[NewSeeker]

We believe that everyone existed eternally.

As Fr. Rob pointed out, Mormonism denies the eternal divinity of Christ, not that Christ is eternally existent. In the LDS view, pre-spirit, eternal intelligences are not divine. Christ was first an eternally-existing, non-divine intelligence, then a created divine spirit. Mormonism does deny the eternal divinity of Christ.

 

[twopekinguys]

Stay away from this cult. I had a Mormon business partner for several years. He was a “bishop”. In his efforts to convert me I found out the following about the LDS church: They teach that the Roman Catholic Church is “apostate”. That the Christian Bible is full of lies concocted by the RC Church. The “book of Mormon” is the true scripture. The cross is a “satanic” symbol (you never see a cross in or on a Mormon “church”). God lives on the planet “Kolob” with his several wives. God came down from Kolob and had sexual intercourse with Mary and she conceived Jesus. Jesus and Lucifer are brothers by different mothers. Jesus had three wives, Mary Magdalene and Mary and Martha the sisters of Lazarus. Jesus had several children by his three wives. Jesus is not God.
Mormon men can have more than one wife in the eyes of the “church” (My business partner had 3). Business fraud is OK as long as the “church” gets 10% as a “tithe”. In the “latter days” . . . at the end of the earth . . . God will send space ships down from Kolob to carry living and resurrected Mormons to the “highest celestial realm” to live with God on Kolob. Non-Mormons will stay on earth and be consumed by fire. I found that gaining material wealth . . . by hook or crook . . . is a Mormon’s principal goal in life. You never see a Mormon “missionary” in a poor part of town.

Even I have to say that alot of what you have here is not what mormons ultimately believe.

Either you may have misunderstood what your friend said, or he didn’t know exactly what he was talking about.

There is a 3rd possibility. He may have been pulling your leg to get you wound up,

 

[RebeccaJ]

Stay away from this cult. I had a Mormon business partner for several years. He was a “bishop”. In his efforts to convert me I found out the following about the LDS church: They teach that the Roman Catholic Church is “apostate”. That the Christian Bible is full of lies concocted by the RC Church. The “book of Mormon” is the true scripture. The cross is a “satanic” symbol (you never see a cross in or on a Mormon “church”). God lives on the planet “Kolob” with his several wives. God came down from Kolob and had sexual intercourse with Mary and she conceived Jesus. Jesus and Lucifer are brothers by different mothers. Jesus had three wives, Mary Magdalene and Mary and Martha the sisters of Lazarus. Jesus had several children by his three wives. Jesus is not God.
Mormon men can have more than one wife in the eyes of the “church” (My business partner had 3). Business fraud is OK as long as the “church” gets 10% as a “tithe”. In the “latter days” . . . at the end of the earth . . . God will send space ships down from Kolob to carry living and resurrected Mormons to the “highest celestial realm” to live with God on Kolob. Non-Mormons will stay on earth and be consumed by fire. I found that gaining material wealth . . . by hook or crook . . . is a Mormon’s principal goal in life. You never see a Mormon “missionary” in a poor part of town.

Hello Jack, if your business partner had 3 wives, he wasn’t a member of the mainstream Mormon church; also called LDS. He is a member of a fundamentalist group. These groups have a wide range of beliefs. Their commonality, including with the LDS group, is believing Joseph Smith to be a prophet and the Book of Mormon to be scripture.

 

[Katzpur]

Catholics and LDS do not mean the same thing when they refer to The Only Begotten Son of God. Just FYI.

Interesting. Maybe you could tell me what Catholics mean by it, and I could tell you what Mormons mean (as opposed to your speaking on behalf of both groups ).

 

[Katzpur]

Do you believe Jesus is the “bread of life” and that he gives us his resurrected body and blood in the Eucharist? From John 6.

“unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is food indeed and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him.’”

Here is a good explanation of the institution of the Eucharist by Jesus in scripture. The new Passover meal that was immediately understood in the early church and continued for 2000 years.

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/euchc2.htm

We do believe that Jesus is the bread of life and that it is only through Him that we may be reconciled to God. We don’t believe in Transsubstantiation or Real Presence, if that’s what you’re getting at, but then neither do many, many Protestants.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur,
Thank you for posting. I know its hard not to take this personally. I know you have a devotion to Jesus Christ as your faith tradition allows. (Romans 10:2) And I know from my former days in the LDS Church, that you faith is deep and sincere. Thank you for your courage in posting to this forum.
Both our faith communities use many of the same terms – God, Jesus Christ, heaven, salvation, eucharist/sacrament. But, as you know, we have completely different definitions of those same terms. The challenge then is to look at each of those terms, compare our respective beliefs, and see which ones withstand the scriptural and historical test. If you are interested, I would love to send you my story sometime of how I reached my conclusion that Jesus is more than a created being, more than the exalted second member of the Godhead, more than just one of many gods. Instead, He is God come in the flesh – Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. He is the Alpha and Omega of identified in the very last Book of Revelation. If you and I can agree on who Jesus is, then we truly can fellowship with one another. Until then, when it comes to worship, we must sadly go our different ways. I do appreciate that the LDS and Catholic communities came together for some fellowship. It is helpful to us all that we learn to understand one another better. You may find this hard to believe from an ex-Mormon, but I LOVE the LDS people – even more so since leaving the church. I love being around them and talking to them. I admire their devotion to their faith, which far surpasses many of my Catholic brothers and sisters. God bless you and may He lead you to the only God that even God Himself (all-knowing) is aware of (see Isaiah 44:8) See also, Isaiah 42:8 and 43: 10.11.

Actually, Gene, I have never once in my 64 years as a Mormon heard any LDS leader say that Jesus is “a created being” or that He is “just one of many gods.” I have, however, heard Him described as the “Creator of our universe,” as the “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” and as “the firstfruits of them that slept.” At any rate, I do appreciate your respectful attitude and wish you all the best in your spiritual journey.

 

[Katzpur]

Stay away from this cult. I had a Mormon business partner for several years. He was a “bishop”. In his efforts to convert me I found out the following about the LDS church: They teach that the Roman Catholic Church is “apostate”. That the Christian Bible is full of lies concocted by the RC Church. The “book of Mormon” is the true scripture. The cross is a “satanic” symbol (you never see a cross in or on a Mormon “church”). God lives on the planet “Kolob” with his several wives. God came down from Kolob and had sexual intercourse with Mary and she conceived Jesus. Jesus and Lucifer are brothers by different mothers. Jesus had three wives, Mary Magdalene and Mary and Martha the sisters of Lazarus. Jesus had several children by his three wives. Jesus is not God.
Mormon men can have more than one wife in the eyes of the “church” (My business partner had 3). Business fraud is OK as long as the “church” gets 10% as a “tithe”. In the “latter days” . . . at the end of the earth . . . God will send space ships down from Kolob to carry living and resurrected Mormons to the “highest celestial realm” to live with God on Kolob. Non-Mormons will stay on earth and be consumed by fire. I found that gaining material wealth . . . by hook or crook . . . is a Mormon’s principal goal in life. You never see a Mormon “missionary” in a poor part of town.

Man, talk about uninformed. You really take the cake. I wonder how you would respond to my saying, “Catholics believe…” followed by a bunch of nonsense that Catholics don’t believe. You don’t need to worry about my doing that, by the way. I would get no satisfaction out of stooping so low.

 

[Katzpur]

As Fr. Rob pointed out, Mormonism denies the eternal divinity of Christ, not that Christ is eternally existent. In the LDS view, pre-spirit, eternal intelligences are not divine. Christ was first an eternally-existing, non-divine intelligence, then a created divine spirit. Mormonism does deny the eternal divinity of Christ.

That’s incorrect. We believe that Jesus is “God,” that He has always been “God,” and always will be “God.” We do not, however, believe that He is the same individual as His Father. We are in complete agreement with John 1:1-2, which states, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.”

If you can find anything in the LDS “Standard Works” which states that Jesus Christ began as a “non-divine intelligence,” I would absolutely love to see it.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Interesting. Maybe you could tell me what Catholics mean by it, and I could tell you what Mormons mean (as opposed to your speaking on behalf of both groups ).

The Son is the ONLY one begotten by the Father, He is eternally begotten of the Father. “He came down from heaven and by the power of the Holy Spirit was made incarnate of the Virgin Mary”. No heavenly mother involved.

Please do explain how “only begotten son” works in LDS thought when we are all literally sons and daughters of heavenly father.
And hopefully someone else will come along and give a better explanation of Catholic teaching for you.

 

[RebeccaJ]

That’s incorrect. We believe that Jesus is “God,” that He has always been “God,” and always will be “God.” We do not, however, believe that He is the same individual as His Father. We are in complete agreement with John 1:1-2, which states, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.”

If you can find anything in the LDS “Standard Works” which states that Jesus Christ began as a “non-divine intelligence,” I would absolutely love to see it.

Katzpur, Mormons always forget to leave off the “a” before your statements of “Jesus is God”. Please, don’t equivocate. Mormon doctrine is clear the Jesus is A God. One among many gods, and don’t forget your goddess who you call Heavenly Mother. Also one among many.

That aside, here’s the thing with your notion of an eternally divine Jesus…do you believe that you yourself were once an “intelligence”? What then is the difference between you and Jesus? You believe you will become a god? When did your Jesus become a god?

 

[Porknpie]

We do believe that Jesus is the bread of life and that it is only through Him that we may be reconciled to God. We don’t believe in Transsubstantiation or Real Presence, if that’s what you’re getting at, but then neither do many, many Protestants.

Katzpur -

If you do not believe in the real presence then your understanding Jesus being the bread of life is in error and your statement below is not true

We Mormons believe every word that the Bible has to say about Jesus Christ. Yes,

So in Luke 10:16, part of what the disciples were hearing from Jesus was about the Eucharist.

16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”

We know its true because it is both scripturally true and the early church fathers wrote about it. No where does the early church write about the real presence being symbolic. It continued to be held true without question for 1500 years. Just two of many ECF quotes below.

“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished,** is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.**” Justin Martyr, First Apology, 66 (c. A.D. 110-165).

“Having learn these things, and been fully assured that the seeming bread is not bread, though sensible to taste, but the Body of Christ; and that the seeming wine is not wine, though the taste will have it so, but the Blood of Christ; and that of this David sung of old, saying, And bread strengtheneth man’s heart, to make his face to shine with oil, ‘strengthen thou thine heart,’ by partaking thereof as spiritual, and “make the face of thy soul to shine.”” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, XXII:8 (c. A.D. 350).

To not believe in the Eucharist is to believe in a false gospel. Galatians 1 warns us (my insert on Moroni)

8 But even if we, or an angel (Moroni) from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Praying for you.

 

[Jack_726]

Even I have to say that alot of what you have here is not what mormons ultimately believe.

Either you may have misunderstood what your friend said, or he didn’t know exactly what he was talking about.

There is a 3rd possibility. He may have been pulling your leg to get you wound up,

My business partner was President of his “stake” and a bishop. He was on several church committees in SLC. I suggest you read the biography of Joseph Smith “No Man Knows My History” by Fawn Brodie, who was a tenured professor at UCLA and a former Mormon. Also google to “Kolob”. Another part of your education about Mormons is to prowl a Deseret Book Store and read the vicious attacks on the Catholic Church including the story of the female pope who gave birth to a “demonic creature” through a hole cut in the seat of her throne. Mormons are devious and unscrupulous in their efforts to convert others to their cult. Also, keep your hand on your wallet when dealing with them.

 

[twopekinguys]

My business partner was President of his “stake” and a bishop. He was on several church committees in SLC. I suggest you read the biography of Joseph Smith “No Man Knows My History” by Fawn Brodie, who was a tenured professor at UCLA and a former Mormon. Also google to “Kolob”. Another part of your education about Mormons is to prowl a Deseret Book Store and read the vicious attacks on the Catholic Church including the story of the female pope who gave birth to a “demonic creature” through a hole cut in the seat of her throne. Mormons are devious and unscrupulous in their efforts to convert others to their cult. Also, keep your hand on your wallet when dealing with them.

First of all, lets talk about Kolob. According to what I can find from mormon sources, Kolob is a star.

According to them, god lives on a planet close to Kolob. Big difference.

With that little tid bit out of the way, it kind of pokes a hole in some of your other claims, as many have already pointed out.

There are anti-Catholic authors and books, and there are anti-mormon authors and books. Your statement about Deseret doesn’t hold water I’m afraid.

Back in your original post, why would the god in the Book of Mormon need spaceships to come get people. Wouldn’t a god be able to just move them?

I will admit right here and now that I am not a fan of the mormon church, but several of your claims are off base, and out of left field, as several have already pointed out.

Either your source was wrong, you misunderstood it, or he was playing you.

 

[Katzpur]

I’ve got to say, this isn’t the most welcoming forum for non-Catholics. No hard feelings. I just can’t get into discussions when people try to tell me what* I* supposedly believe. You guys have a nice day. I’ll see you in, say, maybe a year or so.

 

[twopekinguys]

I’ve got to say, this isn’t the most welcoming forum for non-Catholics. No hard feelings. I just can’t get into discussions when people try to tell me what* I* supposedly believe. You guys have a nice day. I’ll see you in, say, maybe a year or so.

You have to realize a few things. Forums like this are for discussion.

You make a statement or a claim, and someone else offers the opposing view. You cannot honestly expect as a mormon to come to a Catholic forum, and not receive a bit of “resistance” to your claims/statements.

Several posters here have first hand knowledge of the mormon faith, as they are former mormons.

I hate stereotypes, but, you seem to be stepping right into one. Many mormon posters on this forum, when faced with facts or statements they cannot refute, they simply pick up their marbles and go home instead of trudging on. Either that, or the persecution card is played.

I’m not saying any of this to be mean, just simply stating what I’ve seen and experienced.