Church teaching is ruining my marriage

[jmcrae]

PS: People speak of the breakdown of the family as if it were a recent thing. But God’s design for the family is not that Mom stays home by herself with the kids all day while Dad takes on the entire financial burden at work. Rather, it seems to me that God envisions whole families - grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, parents, and kids all living in close proximity to each other, and helping each other both in business and at home - we are not designed to take on these tasks all by ourselves.

As you’ve already noticed, this is an incredibly stressful situation - and the reason it’s stressful is because we as human beings were not designed with this set-up in mind.

Ever since the Industrial Revolution, the family has been breaking down - fathers became absent from the home during working hours, and young couples were moved away from their parents to where the work is, such that, when the kids came along, the grandparents were too far away to reach easily.

I believe that it will become possible for people to become open to life in the way that God asks of us, when we leave aside the idea that Mom and Dad have to raise the kids all by themselves.

Now, we can’t go back to the old way - it’s gone forever - or at least for the rest of our lifetimes. But we can recognize our need for help, and figure out ways to get it. Who around us can be “Grandma,” Grandpa," “Aunty”, “Uncle” or “cousin” to your five kids, and help to relieve the stress that you are under right now?

 

[dulcissima]

Dulcissima… concerning your first few lines… I find your words so condescending and utterly void of charity and empathy… I’d almost say you need some good spiritual purification for such prideful talk…

Trust me Grace, God has been offering me plenty of spiritual purification in my life.

My comment was an attempt to get him to look at it from a different perspective. He and his wife have been going to great lengths to avoid pregnancy, and yet they have been very fruitful, almost as if by a miracle. These children are not failures of NFP. These are the children that God meant for them to have. This is their vocation. This is their path to sanctity. He needs to see that he and his wife were meant to have each and every one of those children. His marriage is blessed. It is not ruined. A tubal ligation and the attitude that children are not welcome are what will ruin a marriage.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

**While my hubby and I are not in your shoes, we could be. We had our first blessing 19 months ago and due to serious health reasons we do not feel able or ready to have another one yet. So that has meant A LOT of abstinence. We have made love 3 or 4 times since she was born.

BUT although contraception/sterilization sounds good in certain moments, both of us realize that we would not deliberately go against Church teaching. We pray for strength all of the time. It is SO HARD. I can’t even imagine your situation. You and your wife especially must be very faithful, strong Catholics. Many people would have given up after the first NFP “failure”.

But you know in your hearts that NFP cannot fail. That is the true beauty of the teaching. It is a way for us to have a say in delaying or postponing conception while still allowing God to have the final say. NFP is the ultimate test in faith.

If hubby and I were to be granted another blessing (or 4) we would try our hardest to trust that God knows what he is doing. I would look to couples such as yourselves to see that it is possible. You can be such a bright shining light in today’s society of darkness. Please don’t lose faith now! Satan is trying so hard to get you to finally turn your back on our Lord. He sees how strong your faith is and how you could be an inspiration to many other struggling Catholic families. He wants you to fail. Because that would be a true failure…a failure to remain faithful to the One who LOVES us the most.

I wish I had practical suggestions on how you and your wife could make this situation easier on yourselves, but I am struggling with only one child. I won’t even pretend to tell you what will work. All I can keep thinking is that God has chosen you for a very special purpose. Please hear Him. Please trust Him.

I will say a special prayer just for your family tonight. I don’t know why I am feeling so passionate about your situation. I can only hope it is the Holy Spirit using me to help you. You represent such great hope to me. I can’t let you lose faith. please.**

 

[jmcrae]

We already do that. If we didn’t have that, she’d already be in a mental institution.

Good, that’s an excellent start.

 

[kevinsgirl]

Well, after trying to use the Creighton system under strict guidance by our Creighton councelor, she was VERY upset, scared, and angry, when we found out she was pregnant with our 3rd child, who was then born 18 months later.

We were very distraught, and were doing everything we could to hold her and our marriage together (we were not able to be physically intimate hardly at all by now, due to fear of pregnancy).

My wife cried for days when our 5th child was conceived 15 months later…it didn’t matter how supportive I was in telling her it was going to be o.k., that God was going to provide. She COULD NOT go through pregnancy again, much less try to take care of 4 children under the age of 5, along with a newborn!

Please help…we are distraught, depressed, and angry.

Keep in mind, I never said that we experienced “horror” at the arrival of each child. We can’t imagine our lives without any of them, and for you to say that our “reaction” does not seem loving is extremely un-empathetic. We have embraced the blessing of our children just like anyone else would.

However, your last statement above is very important…(you are not in our shoes.) You don’t know what it’s like for a woman to go through 45 months of pregnancy within 7 years, much of the while trying to care for other infants and little ones who all demand 100% of your attention.

Horror? Never said that. Fear, anger that God won’t give her a break, frustration at our marriage suffering instead of benefiting spiritually? Yes.

My wife is about to have a full-fledged mental and physical breakdown. This is not horror, this is a VERY real (and reasonable) reaction to our situation.

Oh, and yes…we’ve tried ALL of your suggestions.

I’m sorry if you got offended by my choice of words, however the quotes that I have marked seem to show a great deal of anger at God for sending you your children. Crying out of frustration with the problems of pregnancy, childbirth, or childcare is reasonable. Crying for days because of a positive pregnancy test is not. However, you are right, I should have worded it more charitably.

As far as me not being in your shoes–I am on the opposite side of the spectram from you. I have been trying to conceive for almost 9 months and suffered the pain of miscarrying our first child in October. God sends us each different crosses, but regardless of which cross we have, we can’t put our wishes above God’s laws. I know if I can’t conceive a child naturally that IVF is out. But I do know that I can help my friends and family with their little ones and perhaps adopt someday. Likewise, you know that your situation does not exempt you from God’s rules either. You have to follow Church teaching because that is what being Catholic is.

I think the PP’s have some great suggestions about helping with childcare and trying to give your wife a break. Without getting too in depth, maybe you could shed more light on just how “out there” your relations when you conceived were. There are lots of NFP pros on here that might be able to help you work out a plan for NFP in the super strict form.

God bless and I really hope everything works out for ya’ll.

kevinsgirl

 

[Sina]

Good point in that we cannot chose our crosses Kevinsgirl. Everyone has one, some more difficult than others.

I have extreme sympathy for all crosses. Pray for strength.

I know there are people on CAF who share the same cross as the OP.

 

[leonie]

I have a friend who didn’t have sex with her husband for almost a year because of fear of pregnancy. Then, they went to one day a month. Then as time went on, they added days only in phase three.

now, eight years later, they feel that they are open to life, but she’s 44 and is not conceiving.

Observing my friend go through those years of heroic sacrifice, I am feeled with admiration. She and her husband have a very strong marriage. I know that those years weren’t easy, to say the least.

To have five children under eight is very difficult. And, to spend much of the time pregnant and feeling badly can lead to anxiety and depression. I am so sad for your wife. I do want to reassure you that it gets **much, much easier **as they get older and help out more in the home.

As a person who live with anxiety, I hope your wife isn’t too proud to get medical help to deal with anxiety. My friend who was afraid to become pregnant was dealing with extreme anxiety for years–probably post traumatic stress syndrome. She took some anxiety medication, but looking back, she thinks it would have been helpful to have behavioral cognitive therapy as well.

I also think it would be helpful to have some household help if you can afford it. This isn’t an option for most families, but if you can swing even a couple mornings of a mother’s helper (try a college student or a homeschooled high schooler), it would make a big difference.

I know as a husband, you don’t want to see your wife suffer, but please be more concerned for her eternal soul than this suffering. Be very loving, physically affectionate (without being arousing–whoa, that’s not easy, I know), and prayerful. Also, surround yourself with likeminded Catholics.

God bless, I’m praying for you today.

 

[Xander]

I have been reading this and another thread that is a cousin to this one (dealing with large families) and I have so much sympathy for the OP. My fiance and I are getting married in 1 month and are talking about having our first child, and just the thought of the strain that having that many children in that short of a span is mind boggling. Most of the people posting here don’t seem to completely grasp what the OP is saying, his wife is on the verge of a mental breakdown from all the stress of constantly being pregnant and of the stress of none of the NFP methods working for them. That if anything is a moral reason to avoid pregnancy, and also I cant imagine the financial strain that this has put on them, my fiance and I have been saving up for the one child we want soon (we want to a total of 2 or 3, but want to space them out) and I cant begin to imagine what a strain that 5 is. Also the OP comes across as a loving husband and father, but this is putting a strain on his marriage. After going to pre cana and to our pre marriage counseling sessions, your wife / husband comes first always. And finally could any of you imagine going over a year with your spouse afraid to be intimate with you for fear of pregnancy, that in and of itself could tear a marriage apart. To the OP you are in my prayers that you find a way to work through this, there has to be a way you and your wife can avoid any further pregnancy and yet still be intimate together. I know many of you will disagree with me, but I had to chime in.

 

[Ramalama]

God bless you and your family, SFP. My family is not at all like yours. My second wife has not had children of her own. After we got married, one-by-one my four children moved in with us. They weren’t young and difficult, they were teenagers. (gulp!)

Things were pretty tough for a time. One of the things that helped us greatly was from a psychologist. He said, “Remember, this situation is self limiting. It will end.” Maybe that will be of some help to you. In just a couple years more of your children will be in school. As they age they will also be more able to take care of themselves and help care for the smaller ones.

I know this doesn’t solve your problem, but I hope it helps. My wife and I, now empty nesters, will pray for you. (I sure wish one of the kids would move back in for a while.)

God bless you.

 

[dixieagle]

We already do that. If we didn’t have that, she’d already be in a mental institution.

I am so very sorry for the situation you are experiencing. Though we didn’t have as many children (3 early miscarriages, 2 beautiful daughters) we struggled mightily with NFP, and I can honestly say that it drove a wedge into our relationship, as well. Dh just HATED the idea that, after waiting so long, sex even after marriage was a fairly rare event! (I have a mild heart condition exarcerbated by pregnancy, not that you need a physical infirmity to “justify” using NFP; that is your business entirely.)

I have joked (sort of) that if they ever modify the Church’s teaching allowing only NFP, then members of the Church hierarchy better stay away from me! Thankfully, I had an early (43) menopause which was greeted with great relief.

I am concerned by your statement about the mental institution; could there be deeper emotional and mental issues in the mix here? I would pursue that avenue, if you haven’t already.

All you can do is pray, study, form your conscience and follow it. No one can do any more. I wish I could be of more help.

 

[sfp]

…the quotes that I have marked seem to show a great deal of anger at God for sending you your children. …

Thank you for responding in a more compassionate way. First, we never said we were angry “for sending us our children.” We are blessed and grateful. We were angry that He couldn’t have spaced them apart more…right or wrong, that’s what we struggled with.

We love our children dearly, and consider them blessings. PLEASE get this straight.

…I am on the opposite side of the spectram from you. I have been trying to conceive for almost 9 months and suffered the pain of miscarrying our first child in October…

This would explain your initial hostility. We are VERY compassionate about those who cannot or have trouble conceiving, in fact we have two very close friends who struggle with this. We go to sleep every night feeling guilty for feeling the way we do, for exactly that reason. We know that there are others who would LOVE to be in our shoes, and this is a burden in itself…knowing that our feelings are selfish.

…There are lots of NFP pros on here that might be able to help you work out a plan for NFP in the super strict form.

We are now working with THE expert at the Pope Paul VI institute…the doctor who developed the Creighton system. They can even provide an analysis of her blood EVERY month to tell her whether or not she actually conceived, based on the hormone levels in her blood. Apparently, it is 100% effective in telling you whether or not you are naturally infertile until your next menstrual cycle. However, the key is that last sentence…she can get pregnant DURING her menstrual cycle, and sperm can last up to 3 days I believe, in optimal conditions. (we believe our last child was conceived during her cycle) Plus, there is SO much more to this…

The pressure my wife feels in “having” to be in the mood or mindset during a “specific” time period of the month. And the fact that the use of NFP to avoid goes completely against God’s design. By choosing to try to avoid, we have to abstain during the time of month when she is most interested in relations!

And someone above was right, God never intended for the current “family” lifestyle. Years ago, it was not uncommon for families to have 10+ kids, but they also had lots of family around to help Me personally, I WANT 10+ kids, but I have to be empathetic to my wife’s mental and physical capabilities, as well.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I’m surprised more people have discussed the topic of depression and anxiety that leonie brought up…

SFP - are you and/or your wife seeking medical attention for your depression and anxiety?
If not, this is an avenue that may bring some peace into your lives. You have mentioned several times your distraught and depressed feelings… those can be signs of a medical issue…

Good luck and God bless…

 

[sfp]

Trust me Grace, God has been offering me plenty of spiritual purification in my life.

My comment was an attempt to get him to look at it from a different perspective. He and his wife have been going to great lengths to avoid pregnancy, and yet they have been very fruitful, almost as if by a miracle. These children are not failures of NFP. These are the children that God meant for them to have. This is their vocation. This is their path to sanctity. He needs to see that he and his wife were meant to have each and every one of those children. His marriage is blessed. It is not ruined. A tubal ligation and the attitude that children are not welcome are what will ruin a marriage.

I’ve tried to say over and over, that we love our children, we KNOW that each one was given as a blessing from God, and that God meant for us to have them. It still doesn’t change the fact that my wife is struggling very hard just to stay mentally stable.

 

[sfp]

…She took some anxiety medication, but looking back, she thinks it would have been helpful to have behavioral cognitive therapy as well…

We’ve done both…still on medication (both of us)

 

[IrishAm]

First, let me add my voice to those expressing empathy for the many personal levels to this issue, and reiterate that no one should begin to chastise you for your discouragement. You came and looked for (name removed by moderator)ut on a website that is fairly conservative and traditional in its approach; I’m sure you know you and your wife could find many a priest who would assure you that, taking into account the emotional well-being of your family members, a non-aborticide birth control would be within the framework of the church’s teaching. I am equally certain many members of this website would strongly disagree with very good cause.

But you live in a society where you do have choices, choices you may feel you can live with and choices you may feel you cannot. Sometimes just acknowledging that there *are *choices makes it easier to follow even the strictest interpretations of the teachings of our faith. In fact, maybe the only way we can legitimately follow those strict interpretations is to acknowledge that we do not have to do so.

You and your family are in my prayers.

 

[CuriousInIL]

I’m looking for sincere comments. Truth is welcome and requested, but not pious arrogance.

I am quite sincere in this comment that I am about to make and hope you will find in it truth and not pious arrogance.

It seems to me that one aspect of this all that is making things harder for the two of you is an unspoken assumption that the use of contraception of one form or another would have resulted in marital relations being a much more common occurrence while simultaneously having a “guarantee” (for lack of a better word) that you would have had fewer children. Neither of those assumptions are true and thus I suggest that you might find it easier if you don’t compare/contrast your life with a potentially incorrect assumption about what that life would have been like with the addition of contraception.

If you had acted differently, like many contracepting couples, you may well have found yourself with several children, divorced, and much worse off on a spiritual basis.

 

[tiggeriffic]

Although many families had large numbers of children in years past - there are many contributing factors to consider. As another poster said - they often had large extended families around to help. The economy was different and mothers could afford to stay at home to raise the children and so on. You have obviously been open to the blessings of children and have been blessed five times over. What a wonderful blessing that is. HOWEVER, (please understand this is my opinion) I hear your concern for your wife’s mental and physical health, the health of your marriage and concerns about providing for these children, much less a 6th or 7th. Considering you have been open to children and have the number of children you feel you can financially and emotionally support - I say let your wife have her tubes tied and support her in that. I think it would be a greater sin to continue to have children that you can not support financially or emotionally. And for that matter, I do not feel you and your wife should have to stop all intimacy because of that. I know what I have said is contrary to church teaching and some will think I am horrible for saying it - but it is just my opinion in response to the OP request for advice.

Blessings to you and your family and know you are in prayer.

 

[Vanny]

PS: People speak of the breakdown of the family as if it were a recent thing. But God’s design for the family is not that Mom stays home by herself with the kids all day while Dad takes on the entire financial burden at work. Rather, it seems to me that God envisions whole families - grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, parents, and kids all living in close proximity to each other, and helping each other both in business and at home - we are not designed to take on these tasks all by ourselves.

As you’ve already noticed, this is an incredibly stressful situation - and the reason it’s stressful is because we as human beings were not designed with this set-up in mind.

Ever since the Industrial Revolution, the family has been breaking down - fathers became absent from the home during working hours, and young couples were moved away from their parents to where the work is, such that, when the kids came along, the grandparents were too far away to reach easily.

I believe that it will become possible for people to become open to life in the way that God asks of us, when we leave aside the idea that Mom and Dad have to raise the kids all by themselves.

Now, we can’t go back to the old way - it’s gone forever - or at least for the rest of our lifetimes. But we can recognize our need for help, and figure out ways to get it. Who around us can be “Grandma,” Grandpa," “Aunty”, “Uncle” or “cousin” to your five kids, and help to relieve the stress that you are under right now?

JMCRAE
Excellent, Excellent post- and so ,so true-
To the OP- I hear you and don’t blame you for your fears
Do you still use the Creighton model?
Is there any way you could possibly determine when your wife ovulated for sure by one of these methods, and then have intercourse only in the 2 weeks AFTER she ovulated?
In this way- at least you could be intimate for two weeks in the month instead of never!
I thought I remembered reading somewhere about someone with a life threatening situation doing this- the wife could not risk pg- but they waited until a few days AFTER ovulation, just to be sure…
I was going to suggest daycare/babysitters, ect but someone beat me to it!
Maybe you are already doing this, but could you help her out even more, with the childcare,housework, ect so she’s not going it alone?

 

[mchale]

Sfp,
With respect, while you might love all of your kids, your very post indicate at the very least conflicted feelings about them.

I am not married, I am have only just gotten engaged, so I haven’t experienced your particular position. That being said, my future wife and I intend to practice NFP and I think we understand some of your concerns. On the flip side though, we both come from families where many children were the rule not the exception (My Dad is one of 9, Mom one of 6, her mother is one of 8 her father is one of 6). So while its tough, it is certainly doable. In fact, while I have two brothers, I sometimes envy the large families my parent’s have and love to hear them tell stories of when they were growing up.

Your wife’s mental state is certainly the issue here, and the question is, have you tried to address that in any method other than just not having any more children?

One of the hardest things anyone has to do is to submit to God’s will for their life. Even Jesus wanted to avoid his fate when he was in the Garden but he submitted. My personal opinion is that we need to ultimately learn to surrender control to God. We can’t say we accept God’s will for our life and then get angry at him because it didn’t turn out the way we wanted it. As Catholics, we cannot simply use NFP as a method of birth control, or of obeying the Church’s teaching, we must use it as a method of saying yes to God’s plan for our lives.

One final thought, when practiced properly, the failure rate of Natural Family Planning is comparable to the failure rate of artificial birth control. Now obviously, your failures may have nothing to do with how you practiced NFP, but you might have used artificial means and still have had all 5 of your children.

–
Bill

 

[StratusRose]

• **I say **let your wife have her tubes tied and support her in that. I think it would be a greater sin to continue to have children that you can not support financially or emotionally. And for that matter, I do not feel you and your wife should have to stop all intimacy because of that. I know what I have said is contrary to church teaching and some will think I am horrible for saying it - but it is just my opinion in response to the OP request for advice.

Blessings to you and your family and know you are in prayer.

A greater sin to have more children. Wow.

It doesn’t matter what you think or feel what is right, it’s what God thinks and feels what is right. I would never allow my husband to mutilate his body so that we could have unlimited sex. And I know for a fact that he wouldn’t ask me of this either. Love demands mutual respect of the spouses, not making functional parts of our bodies defunct.