Church teaching is ruining my marriage

[tiggeriffic]

A greater sin to have more children. Wow.

It doesn’t matter what you think or feel what is right, it’s what God thinks and feels what is right. I would never allow my husband to mutilate his body so that we could have unlimited sex. And I know for a fact that he wouldn’t ask me of this either. Love demands mutual respect of the spouses, not making functional parts of our bodies defunct.

You misquoted me. I said a greater sin to have more children they could not support. Also, while I appreciate your response, my comments were for the original poster.

 

[sfp]

…If you had acted differently, like many contracepting couples, you may well have found yourself with several children, divorced, and much worse off on a spiritual basis.

We recognize this…I believe the proximity of our wonderful children are the cross and the saving of our marriage.

 

[jmcrae]

If you had acted differently, like many contracepting couples, you may well have found yourself with several children, divorced, and much worse off on a spiritual basis.

True - if she has the ability to get pregnant during her period, then I can’t even imagine what form of birth control would have worked for her, since (as I understand it) most forms of birth control aren’t designed for use during one’s period. (I think the manufacturers assume that people don’t have sex at that time of the month, or else that most women are infertile at that time.)

 

[StratusRose]

You misquoted me. I said a greater sin to have more children they could not support. Also, while I appreciate your response, my comments were for the original poster.

You are splitting hairs. If you wanted your comments to be for the original poster, then send him a private message if you don’t want others to read/comment on it.

To the OP: I feel great sympathy for you and your wife. I hope that the people you are working with can help figure out your wife’s cycles. Did you mention that she can conceive while on her period? I know that it happens, but is it common? I am guessing she has short cycles. Anyway…I hope you can get it all figured out. I can imagine that she is going bonkers with 5 young children.

 

[leonie]

We recognize this…I believe the proximity of our wonderful children are the cross and the saving of our marriage.

I think you are operating on a false premise: that having a sterilization or using abc would save your marriage. How can be totally cut off from God’s Grace save your marriage?

Do you have a good priest who can counsel you on this matter?

 

[jmcrae]

We recognize this…I believe the proximity of our wonderful children are the cross and the saving of our marriage.

Perhaps it would help to look forward to the day when they all leave for college and/or work at the same time.

 

[23eagle23]

WOW, i have read this whole string and I am amazed at how perfect everyone on this site is…good for you all

SFP, your wife and you need to make a discision that is best for your family, and are willing to stand in front of GOD to answer too…

Pray, yes, talk to your priest, yes

But you have to answer for your actions…

I am trying to say what no one else will say…

and yes I am a cradle to grave Catholic.

When I met the Lord the chruch will not be standing with me, I will be the one answering/ asking for fogiveness of my earthly actions…

 

[mschrank]

sfp: Are you saying that the reason why NFP is not working for you is because you keep having sex during your wife’s period?

 

[mchale]

WOW, i have read this whole string and I am amazed at how perfect everyone on this site is…good for you all

With respect, I am sure that no one here is claiming perfection, we are simply advocating doing one’s best to follow the teachings of the Church. Lord knows I have slipped in countless ways and that I will continue to slip in countless ways. But ultimately, I don’t blame the teaching of the Church, or try to justify my slips.

SFP, your wife and you need to make a discision that is best for your family, and are willing to stand in front of GOD to answer too…

Pray, yes, talk to your priest, yes

But you have to answer for your actions…

I am trying to say what no one else will say…

and yes I am a cradle to grave Catholic.

When I met the Lord the chruch will not be standing with me, I will be the one answering/ asking for fogiveness of my earthly actions…

If I understand you correctly, that is a dangerous position you are staking out. How can the best choice for yourself and your family be one that you will need to ask forgiveness for? We can’t embrace sin and at the same time accept God’s forgiveness. We must do our best to overcome the sin, confess the sin and thus we will receive God’s forgiveness.

–
Bill

 

[allhers]

Perhaps this would be a good idea for a lot of us who are in the position to do so —Go to our Pastors and offer to babysit (perhaps somewhere in the Parish, in a large group setting with plenty of adults around), who volunteer their time whenever they can, a few hours daily, daily, one day a week, whatever we can do. That way, perhaps some of these women could go to the grocery store, go to confession, go to lunch with a friend, the library, for a walk in the park, whatever errands they need to run, etc…
I’m sure it must be doable (is that a word?) Afterall, you have to get fingerprinted for everything else you do so why not submit to this too? Just a suggestion. A lot of Parishes have room for this and the one’s who don’t could help at the one’s that do.

 

[GraceDK]

I think you are operating on a false premise: that having a sterilization or using abc would save your marriage. How can be totally cut off from God’s Grace save your marriage?

Oh… so you now decide who gets cut off from God’s Grace? Come on Leonie…

 

[Seatuck]

SFP

It seems that both you and your wife have good just reason for long term abstaining from the marital act. But no you do not have a just reason to contracept/sterilize as difficult at that might be.

You are in my prayers. I have pity for your and your wife’s suffering.

 

[mschrank]

Oh… so you now decide who gets cut off from God’s Grace? Come on Leonie…

LOL, I think the Church does decide. If it doesn’t, then lets stop wasting our time on this “Catholic” nonsense and become Protestants.

After all, it doesn’t mention NFP in the Bible. (sarcasm)

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Oh… so you now decide who gets cut off from God’s Grace? Come on Leonie…

**
She is stating the Church’s teachings, not her opinion. When we sin we turn away from God. WE choose this.

This thread is denigrating into personal opinions, advice contrary to Church teaching, attacks, bickering… is this really the example we want to be? Is this really helpful to the OP and his wife?

**

 

[sfp]

…I say let your wife have her tubes tied and support her in that. I think it would be a greater sin to continue to have children that you can not support financially or emotionally.

Thanks so much for your prayers. Your reply reminds me of the direction that this thread has taken. I probably wasn’t clear in my OP, but just so we’re clear…

I don’t believe that any immoral act can be justified, no matter how good the intentions are. Here is what I was really asking…

1. Any advice in coping with our struggles?
2. I am aware of the ordinary magesterium’s teachings on voluntary infertility. However, is my pastor correct?..( in saying that since the Church has never made an infallible statement from the chair, that we should rely on the Holy Spirit’s guidance for “our” particular circumstances.)
3. Advice, not admonishment. (not directed at you, tigger)

 

[jmcrae]

Oh… so you now decide who gets cut off from God’s Grace? Come on Leonie…

Yeah, Leonie’s such a big bad meanie, because, hey, where does she get off reminding people of the Church’s teachings?

(Oh, wait - that’s the first Act of Spiritual Mercy - instructing the ignorant.)

 

[dulcissima]

Oh… so you now decide who gets cut off from God’s Grace? Come on Leonie…

Grace, Sin cuts us off from God’s grace…that is what sin is. The Church defines sin for us. Leonie is not claiming to have the deciding vote on what will cut someone off from God’s grace, she is encouraging this couple to stay close to God through the teaching of the Church.

Is it possible that you are reading too much into people’s intentions who post advice here?

I am hopeful that this couple can stay true to Church teaching. I failed at it myself, and I am paying the consequences of my failure. I don’t think that you are understanding what is in my heart or what is behind my advice…or the advice of some of the other posters who want this couple to do a very difficult thing…and stay true to the teachings of the Church.

 

[mschrank]

sfp: Are you saying that the reason why NFP is not working for you is because you keep having sex during your wife’s period?

Nudge nudge… is this the case, because otherwise I do not understand why NFP is not working for you.

 

[sfp]

JMCRAE
…intercourse only in the 2 weeks AFTER she ovulated?
In this way- at least you could be intimate for two weeks in the month instead of never!
I thought I remembered reading somewhere about someone with a life threatening situation doing this- the wife could not risk pg- but they waited until a few days AFTER ovulation, just to be sure…

We would be very happy with just 2 weeks…even 1 week, even once or twice a month! Each time is a possibility, there are no guarantees that even during that two weeks it is safe (99%, not 100%)

 

[sfp]

Sfp,
With respect, while you might love all of your kids, your very post indicate at the very least conflicted feelings about them.​

Bill

Lot of nerve coming from someone with no kids. I have NO conflicting feelings about my kids…they are the reason we go on trying. My posts show that we are frustrated and fearful due to the PROXIMITY of our kids…not our kids themselves!