Church teaching is ruining my marriage

[BeeSweet]

sfp, I am sorry you and your wife are having such a difficult time right now. God bless you for all your efforts! I only have one son who is 22 months, NFP has worked real well for us. We’re not intimate near as often as we were when we practiced ABC, but neither have we gone through the periods of abstinence you describe you and your wife have suffered through in your marriage. I have no doubt of the serious strain this is putting on your marriage. If I were to give you any advice, the first thing that comes to mind is make absolutely sure your wife is taking care of herself, and not just her responsibilities. It’s way too easy to forget to make time for yourself and start out each day running to catch up and dreading the sunrise. I have to get myself up two hours before my son wakes so I can feel like I’m ready for the day. Does your wife have any personal time each day for prayer and recuperation? If not, serious effort needs to be made to make such time for her, even if that means the laundry lay on the floor and the dishes sit for a while. Is she an over acheiver (as your fertility seems to be ? )? I wonder, since it seems really drastic that a married couple go without intimacy for a whole year, that’s over achievement in my estimation! Sometimes it’s the pressure we put on ourselves that weighs the heaviest rather than our actual responsibilities. I’m only suggesting this as something to consider, obviously I don’t know either of you.

The other thing that comes to my mind is about your practice of NFP. Do you all monitor her cervix symptom? I’ve found my cervix symptom to be fairly definitive in establishing phase III infertility. I wondered if you found NFP failing you even when you had a definitive phase III cervix symptom.

I pray God keeps you sane through all His many blessings!

 

[catherineajt]

sfp,

My heart goes out to you and your wife, and I haven’t read every single reply in this thread, so please excuse me if I repeat any advice/ideas others have already given.

My thoughts:

1. My husband and I have used NFP since we were married 8 years ago. We started using a ClearPlan ovulation monitor after our first son (a honeymoon baby) was born. Because of this, I know that not a cycle has gone by that I have not ovulated. If we hadn’t practiced great restraint in between our three kids (ages 7, 3 and 14 months), we would have as many or more kids as you do, I think! It IS hard on a marriage to abstain from sex–however there are many other physical, loving things a couple can do that are not against the teachings of the Church. The priest who prepared us through pre-Cana advised us to give each other massages, foot rubs, et cetera–those are perfectly fine and quite enjoyable.

One of the lessons of marriage is to learn that there are other ways of showing love and affection than through sexual intercourse. Sex occurs on a continuum–from holding hands at one point to the whole tamale at the other end, so to speak.

1. Has your wife spoken to her doctor about possible post-partum depression? If she hasn’t had a long enough break in between children, it can get worse with each child, and I would not be surprised at all if she had at least some degree of PPD. I did, and it made mothering very difficult. Even with my husband helping out, emotionally it was very hard.
2. You mentioned that you and your wife are music ministers at your parish. You will not like what I have to suggest, but I would suggest stepping back or resigning from your duties there and focusing instead on your family. Music ministry is a wonderful vocation, but as you said, there is no child care at the parish for that mass, so I imagine that adds another dimension of stress. If you could both of you step back, you could give each other a break so the one could attend Mass with just the oldest children while the other stays at home with the little ones, and take turns.

I know it’s hard; when I started having kids I wanted to keep up my “outside” duties and volunteer positions, but God made it clear that my duty was to focus on my family while the children were young. I will have many more years once they are older to focus my attention outward.

These are simply my thoughts, and you may take them or discard them as you wish.

 

[mchale]

This is the problem…everyone gives verbal support, but no one in the Church feels it is necessary to help out those who try to follow this Church teaching. I mean…

1. There is NO child care at our 5:30 evening mass on Sunday (we both provide the music at this mass).

Just a thought, but perhaps it is time to reevaluate this activity? Single people and people with older children have time to do this sort of thing, parents with young children do not. Unless it is a source of income, I would suggest you pare down the volunteer activities you commit too.

–
Bill

 

[GraceDK]

With respect, the two are one in the same. If your kids had been conceived at a time different from when they were, they would be very different people than the ones who are your kids today.

I am not saying you don’t love your kids, but there is conflict in your heart in how you view them. You say you love all your kids, but you wish they had not come so fast. Think about that, let say they were separated by 3 years; would that be enough for you? If it is, you are now wishing that some of your kids had not been born yet!

I may not know what it is like to be a parent, but you can’t say I don’t know what it is like to love and be loved. If someone told me they loved me but wished I wasn’t around yet, guess which thought would stick more in my mind?

Bill

Bill cut the c*** and give the guy a break… for crying out loud!

 

[sfp]

…there is conflict in your heart in how you view them. You say you love all your kids, but you wish they had not come so fast. Think about that, let say they were separated by 3 years; would that be enough for you? If it is, you are now wishing that some of your kids had not been born yet!

Ridiculous…completely ridiculous and incorrect “observation.” Nothing could be further from the truth…I don’t see my kids that way, and have embraced them. You clearly have no idea (or interest) of what we are going through.

…If someone told me they loved me but wished I wasn’t around yet, guess which thought would stick more in my mind?

Would never say that, or think it.

…Also, why does my not having kids disqualify me from having a valid opinion? You going to use the same reasoning with respect to an observation coming from a priest?

You do have an opinion…but your opinion is based on a false observation, so I’m correcting you.

…Ultimately, you posted on this forum asking for advice, don’t get angry because people are not simply giving you sympathy.

Advice does not necessitate admonishment, especially when I am clear that we want to follow Church teaching. And it is completely inappropriate to suggest that I have “mixed feelings” about the kids that we “have” been blessed with.

 

[Belle10]

If someone told me they loved me but wished I wasn’t around yet, guess which thought would stick more in my mind?

I’m sure the OP doesn’t say this to his children, and I don’t think it’s what he meant.

To the OP: I’ve read this entire thread, and all I can say is that you know that following the Church’s teaching regarding sexuality and marriage is the right thing, and you are to be commended for doing so. God will reward you for your faithfulness (perhaps He already is, but it’s hard to see?).

We only have one child (so far) but I know how tired we are with just her, so I can only image how tiring it is for you and your wife. However, we also know the immeasurable joy we have because of our child, as I’m sure you do too (even if it’s often overshadowed by exhaustion, etc.).

It seems like you are trying your best to find ways to figure out your wife’s cycle, you’re in (or seeking?) counseling, etc. I would encourage you to share your situation with family and friends and ask them to help out here and there – cook a meal, watch the kids for a few hours, etc. I know there are bigger issues you are working on (as far as NFP to figure out her cycles) but even these small things can make a difference in daily life, as I’m sure you know. If family and friends have often mentioned they’ll help, put them on the spot now and ask them specifically.

Perhaps when the two of you are having a really down-in-the-dumps day, you can offer up your exhaustion, frustration, and all for the sake of those who are infertile, that their suffering be lessened a bit at that moment. I know it’s not a “fix” for anything, but it’s something that, with time and Jesus’ help, can make a difference.

God bless your family, and I’ll pray for you. :hug1:

PS - do you live in upstate NY? I’ll help you out if you do.

 

[catherineajt]

You are incorrect. We didn’t have sex “during” her menstrual cycle. Ever since our third child, we took a VERY conservative approach to all of our methods. We are well aware that her cycle is considered “fertile” time.

We had sex the night BEFORE her cycle. We did not expect her cycle to come so early. We believe the sperm stayed alive long enough for conception to occur.

But thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt before you preached. (sarcastic)

In some women, intercourse can actually stimulate ovulation. I know it has in me–my third child was a result of this. Also, not every woman’s cycle is the same every month. Some are blessed with a very regular cycle, some aren’t.

 

[sfp]

Why are you providing the music at the Mass? Seriously, man. You’ve got five kids under the age of 6 - you have no duty to do volunteer work at this stage in your life.

Five kids and your paying job that you do during the week are all the work you need, right now. Let the retirees and the single people take on the Church stuff.

We are not volunteers. This is part of our income. My wife is the music director at our church.

I don’t make enough on my own, so we need money to help pay for the “help” during the day that so many of you are suggesting.

 

[sfp]

sfp,

My heart goes out to you and your wife, and I haven’t read every single reply in this thread, so please excuse me if I repeat any advice/ideas others have already given…

Yes, a lot of your comments, although welcome, have been talked about earlier.

1. You mentioned that you and your wife are music ministers at your parish. You will not like what I have to suggest, but I would suggest stepping back or resigning from your duties there and focusing instead on your family. Music ministry is a wonderful vocation, but as you said, there is no child care at the parish for that mass, so I imagine that adds another dimension of stress. If you could both of you step back, you could give each other a break so the one could attend Mass with just the oldest children while the other stays at home with the little ones, and take turns.

1. As I mention in another recent post, my wife IS the music director at our church. This is almost half of our income.
2. My mother-in-law is wonderful…she watches 3 of them in the pews, while our part-time nanny watches our two little ones at home during this time. and I am with the kids during the morning masses when she is directing choir.

 

[Zelie_Louis]

The lack of charity in this thread is extremely disappointing. Some of you might benefit from reading our charity expectations here.

This thread is now closed.