Church Teaching on Homosexuality

[goofyjim]

Hi all,

Nobody is born gay(people who claim it is is a blasphemer),but as soon as you know how to distinguish between good and bad you’re able to sin as we inherit Adam’s sin.
And about why homosexuality does exist we can read from the letters of St.Paul to Romans : Rome 1:18-32

Beatus vir qui timet Dominum - Blessed the man who fears God

Certainly noone is born into a behavior. But one might very well be born with an innate attraction even if it is a disorder. Mental disorders are often inherited and noone disputes that.

 

[nikkoo]

Certainly noone is born into a behavior. But one might very well be born with an innate attraction even if it is a disorder. Mental disorders are often inherited and noone disputes that.

Yes, I agree with that. I also admire your ability to be faithful to what the Catholic Church teaches on this matter; it has very strong, authentic, witness-value to a person such as myself, who is charged with teaching our faith. It’s interesting that Jesus was unable to help people even in His own time because they simply had no faith in Him. The real question for us today is: Do we believe Jesus still has the power to change our minds and hearts? In the Gospel, Jesus says that there are some things we need to pray for incessantly,and I firmly believe that purity of heart is one of those things, especially given the sex-saturated age in which we live. But by purity of heart, I don’t simply mean staying pure sexually. To be sure, purity of heart, according to Jesus includes sexual purity but it is more definitively, a much broader and more profound concept than just that: it has to do with the singleness of intention,mind and heart that Jesus is talking about when He says:" My food is to do the will of My Father." We need to ask ourselves that question often:" Is my food to do the will of My Father?“As such, purity of heart has to do with living” a righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and the pharisees", a righteousness that seeks to actively do justice to God, ourselves, and our neighbor at every moment of our lives.The hallmark of this kind of existential faith is a new mode of being- in- the- world ( A Being-in -Love) which is central to what Jesus is calling us to , indeed this represents Jesus ’ understanding of what the Kingdom of God is all about: a Kingdom of LOVE. Hope this helps…

 

[emily47017]

i am also attracted to members of the same sex, and am just beginning my journey with chastity. i firmly believe i was born this way, and am grateful that my human soul and human free will allow me to act or not, as i choose.

there is a growing body of evidence suggesting that homosexuality is biologically determined, though not necessarily genetically. so the “gay gene” debate is misnamed… it might more accurately be called the “gay amniotic sac” debate.

thanks for initiating this thread, nikkoo! it’s wonderful to read such a supportive and love-affirming thread on this topic. judging from what you’ve written here, i am so glad that the learning of our young ones has been entrusted to you! blessings to you!

 

[nikkoo]

i am also attracted to members of the same sex, and am just beginning my journey with chastity. i firmly believe i was born this way, and am grateful that my human soul and human free will allow me to act or not, as i choose.

there is a growing body of evidence suggesting that homosexuality is biologically determined, though not necessarily genetically. so the “gay gene” debate is misnamed… it might more accurately be called the “gay amniotic sac” debate.

thanks for initiating this thread, nikkoo! it’s wonderful to read such a supportive and love-affirming thread on this topic. judging from what you’ve written here, i am so glad that the learning of our young ones has been entrusted to you! blessings to you!

Hi There:
I appreciate your kind response ! As Christian men, it’s important that we support one another in our faith journey.That kind of support is hard to come by in the real world, which is why forums like this can make such a profound difference.
God Bless!

 

[nikkoo]

i am also attracted to members of the same sex, and am just beginning my journey with chastity. i firmly believe i was born this way, and am grateful that my human soul and human free will allow me to act or not, as i choose.

there is a growing body of evidence suggesting that homosexuality is biologically determined, though not necessarily genetically. so the “gay gene” debate is misnamed… it might more accurately be called the “gay amniotic sac” debate.

thanks for initiating this thread, nikkoo! it’s wonderful to read such a supportive and love-affirming thread on this topic. judging from what you’ve written here, i am so glad that the learning of our young ones has been entrusted to you! blessings to you!

Hi Emily:
OOPS, did I say Christian men?? I meant Christian people…LOL
The reason I started the thread was because I want to be able to present the Church’s teaching on the issue of same sex attraction in the most loving way possible. Being strident and overly judgemental with regard to another person’s character is the wrong way to go on this issue and in point of fact, mis-represents the Catholic Church’s philosophical and theological stance on this issue. Just look at the example of Christ, and how He was mocked for choosing to associate with social outcasts. Truly, we are our sister’s and brother’s keeper.
God Bless!!

 

[blessedtoo]

The reason I started the thread was because I want to be able to present the Church’s teaching on the issue of same sex attraction in the most loving way possible. Being strident and overly judgemental with regard to another person’s character is the wrong way to go on this issue and in point of fact, mis-represents the Catholic Church’s philosophical and theological stance on this issue.

Since truth and love can never contradict one another, this should not be as complicated as we often make it. Because you are teaching High School students, you have been given a glorious opportunity to impress upon them the truth, compassion, and sound reason behind the Church teaching on homosexuality. Kids this age are still forming their consciences and need all the help they can get. While it is important to make the distinction between people and their sins (love the sinner, hate the sin), it is equally important to present the unvarnished truth without getting tangled up in the politically correct rhetoric of the day. Teenagers today are bombarded with the message that “anything goes”. To combat such an assault on morailty, one must present a message that carries at least as much weight as the pervading cultural attitudes.

 

[nikkoo]

Since truth and love can never contradict one another, this should not be as complicated as we often make it. Because you are teaching High School students, you have been given a glorious opportunity to impress upon them the truth, compassion, and sound reason behind the Church teaching on homosexuality. Kids this age are still forming their consciences and need all the help they can get. While it is important to make the distinction between people and their sins (love the sinner, hate the sin), it is equally important to present the unvarnished truth without getting tangled up in the politically correct rhetoric of the day. Teenagers today are bombarded with the message that “anything goes”. To combat such an assault on morailty, one must present a message that carries at least as much weight as the pervading cultural attitudes.

Hi Thanks:
I agree with what you’re saying in terms of the objectivity of moral norms. There is such a thing as right and wrong when it comes to how we conduct ourselves sexually. I consider myself a Neo-Thomist in this regard. I don’t teach the kids about safe -sex, I teach them about chastity. All I’m saying is that HOW something is taught (compassion, sensitivity, and insight) is just as important as WHAT is taught ( authoritative church teaching.) with regard to how that teaching is accepted and further appropriated by the students. But your point is well taken: teachers need to teach the Church’s teaching in an unambiguous and unapologetic manner… after all, Church teaching is ultimately about a Person, namely: Christ Who really is the Truth who will set us free.

 

[quiet52]

Any sexual behaviors outside of marriage is a sin. God’s gift to married couples is so awesomely beautiful. I have “opposite sex attraction” – I’m not married, so with God’s grace I’ve avoided caving in to my desires for quite a long time. I have had to pray thousands of times “Dear Jesus, show me how to love you rather than love this desire.” Through the Eucharist and much prayer, God has strengthened me to act on His graces and not on my impulses. God has presented me with many opportunities to love Him and others and forget these desires.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

**I teach the faith in a local Catholic High School. The Church says that people experience a same sex attraction through no fault of their own and that we are to avoid all forms of discrimination toward them. Is the Church saying that people may in fact, be born with a homosexual orientation or that it is more a product of how these people were raised? I know the Church calls everyone to the practice of chastity, but it seems to me that if the Church is leaning more toward the genetic/biological genesis of homosexuality, the teaching of the practice of chastity is somewhat compromised: i.e., Why should gay people remain chaste if God created them to be this way? I’m not homosexual myself, I just want to be able to present the Catholic Church’s teaching on this matter in the most authentic way possible.
Thanks!!

**

For the same reason that all person inclined to non-genitive, non-marital relaions are called to chastity.

In love and obedience to God, we may joyfully participate as co-creators through HIS grace and participation in a new soul. To use our sexuality for pleasure - to the exclusion of an openess to His graceful operation and co-operation in the creation of new life is to usurp His perogative in being the creator.

Even married persons are called to refrain from sexual acts that skew this idea and concept of the genitive and life giving nature of marital initmacy.

To be blunt, if not crude, even married persons are not given “free reign” in the pursuit of sexual pleasures that could never possibly result in an openess to life. It may be pleasurable, but if that pleasure is sought at the rejection of including God in His right to enter the marriage through pro-creation it is off limits.

Homo-genital acts can NEVER allow for God to use us as stewards for His creation.

 

[Proletarian]

**I teach the faith in a local Catholic High School. The Church says that people experience a same sex attraction through no fault of their own and that we are to avoid all forms of discrimination toward them. Is the Church saying that people may in fact, be born with a homosexual orientation or that it is more a product of how these people were raised? I know the Church calls everyone to the practice of chastity, but it seems to me that if the Church is leaning more toward the genetic/biological genesis of homosexuality, the teaching of the practice of chastity is somewhat compromised: i.e., Why should gay people remain chaste if God created them to be this way? I’m not homosexual myself, I just want to be able to present the Catholic Church’s teaching on this matter in the most authentic way possible.
Thanks!!

**

I myself have a natural inclination towards violence (in spite of a non-violent and loving childhood); perhaps I should embrace my congenital dispassion? because after all, that’s how God made me.

 

[Proletarian]

I was brought up in a Catholic home, Catholic schools, and I chose never to act out. Please explain how any of these three that you mentioned play into my attraction. Certainly I had no upbringing to say try being homosexual. And the environment was a healthy, suburban family who never even discussed the topic. While I chose to remain abstinent I did not choose the attraction. There are more factors to explain it than just genes. Noone has ever explored chromosomal theories but there are those who have an extra chromosome. I have already stated my agreement that it is immoral behavior but the jury is still out on whether or not one is born with the attraction.

First of all, God bless you mate! I very rarely hear of a person choosing The Church over their own sexual inclinations.

After studying sociology for many years (too many ) I’ve always wondered what effect deviance has upon sexual attraction and orientation. I have often speculated that deviance is genetic (we all have it to some degree), but that in some individuals this social deviance is expressed through a sexuality contrary to the social norm. In other words, one is not born homosexual but rather subconsciously orientates himself against the social norm.

Id love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers…

 

[goofyjim]

First of all, God bless you mate! I very rarely hear of a person choosing The Church over their own sexual inclinations.

After studying sociology for many years (too many ) I’ve always wondered what effect deviance has upon sexual attraction and orientation. I have often speculated that deviance is genetic (we all have it to some degree), but that in some individuals this social deviance is expressed through a sexuality contrary to the social norm. In other words, one is not born homosexual but rather subconsciously orientates himself against the social norm.

Id love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers…

This would still imply that one deliberately chooses even same sex attraction. The attraction was there in me as early as I can I rmember. There was no way I could have consciously or subconsciously chosen it. It just was. But a good upbringing allows one to control behavior.

 

[Proletarian]

The attraction was there in me as early as I can I rmember. There was no way I could have consciously or subconsciously chosen it. It just was.

This has always made me curious. I’m not sure when you began feeling this way, but I have heard others speak of these feelings long before sexual maturity. Sexual attraction may indeed be genetically determined but sexual identity is certainly a social construct. The fact that homosexual people report feeling “different” before sexual maturity would suggest a condition that is defined in terms of social norms rather than actual sexual attraction.

 

[goofyjim]

This has always made me curious. I’m not sure when you began feeling this way, but I have heard others speak of these feelings long before sexual maturity. Sexual attraction may indeed be genetically determined but sexual identity is certainly a social construct. The fact that homosexual people report feeling “different” before sexual maturity would suggest a condition that is defined in terms of social norms rather than actual sexual attraction.

But then we drill in those social norms, like “Do you have any girlfriends?” and the social norms make the individual feel guilty just over the attraction. I will never advocate homosexual relations but I think we can all take a chill pill over having to reverse the attraction. It may very well be inborn but there are so many who want to shut down this possibility and say the whole thing is environmental.

 

[nikkoo]

But then we drill in those social norms, like “Do you have any girlfriends?” and the social norms make the individual feel guilty just over the attraction. I will never advocate homosexual relations but I think we can all take a chill pill over having to reverse the attraction. It may very well be inborn but there are so many who want to shut down this possibility and say the whole thing is environmental.

LOL, I like what you said about the “chill pill.” If we learn anything from Christ in terms of morality, surely it is this: We are not what we claim to be/how we self-identify, WE ARE WHAT WE DO as in Matthew 7 :21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the ONE WHO DOES the will of my Father in heaven.

12 “Everyone who LISTENS to these words of mine and ACTS on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock.
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The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock.
26
And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand.
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The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined.”
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13 When Jesus finished these words, the crowds were astonished at his teaching,
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14 for he taught them as one having authority, and not as their scribes. "

You see, more than anything else, we are accountable for what we actually do, which in turn depends on how we think. Jesus alludes to this in saying it’s not what goes into a man that makes him prone to sin, but rather what comes out of a man/ man’s heart: Matthew 15:10: It is not what enters one’s mouth that defiles that person; but what comes out of the mouth is what defiles one." How can we be more in control of our thinking? Prayer, spiritual reading( an often neglected aid), the Eucharist, Confession, Rosary, Liturgy of the Hours… any and all of these are excellent ways to live in the conscious presence of our God. And it’s not about repressing our thoughts or feelings but rather sublimating them to God’s presence by the power of the Holy Spirit. In other words we need to open ourselves to God’s loving gaze/ glance if we are to recover our true nature as a Child of God. It is precisely this loving glance that has the power to heal us and restore us to sanity even today.