Church Veil Reactions

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JKirkLVNV said:
No, the Church isn’t going against Tradition (with a big “T”) because the Church can’t go against it. The Church has dispensed with A tradition (small "t’) as it has the authority to do.

You still haven’t responded to this. If what Saint Paul said about veiling or covering is an immutable (that means “unchanging”) truth, then what are we to make of our Lord’s admonition to “call no man father?” Wouldn’t THAT also be an immutable truth, out of the mouth of the Savior Himself? Yet, as I’ve said, we call our priests “father,” we call the Pope “Holy Father.” If it’s a matter of discipline, the Church has the authority to change it, alter it, dispense with it.

You really need to read up on some of the basics of Catholicism.
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A poster already touched up on your issue about calling priests “Father” on page 3 of this thread. I agree with that poster. Read it for your answer.

By the way, telling me I need to “read up on some of the basics of Catholicism” is ad hominem. I have read so many Catholic books and articles it’s incredible. Again, how do you think I know so much about what happened at Vatican II? It’s called research.
 
The Church never got rid of the covering of the heads of women. Why is it always about getting by with what we can as long as its not a sin? What about the attitude of what can we do for God? I am tired of hearing a bunch of “I thinks.” Its not about what we think. It is about what our teachings and traditions and scriptures say. You have to look at the whole picture. The whole 2000 years worth of picture.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Well, you ought not be attending upon what an excommunicate like LeFebreve said, esp. as it relates to the Church, much less attending an illicit SSPX service, but you shouldn’t feel afraid to wear your veil to Mass. Some women wear the veil at my parish and no one gives them a hard time. I don’t know what to say about your husband. I can’t imagine any man giving a woman a hard time about something she felt strongly about, but then again, it was St. Paul who had something to say about veiling AND submission to husbands by wives.
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Just wanted to clarify that I was a visitor at the SSPX service, I do not belong there or show any allegiance with LeFebreve. I belong to an ordinary Catholic Church that truly does not have that much life in it, and I was happy to see some people excited about what they were doing. I think the issue with my husband is that as I learn more about our faith, he is getting uncomfortable, because he knows he is doing some things he shouldn’t be and doesn’t want to admit that to himself. He absolutely goes nuts when anyone confronts him with the church’s sexual teachings. So, I think the more religious I get, the more he worries about what he doesn’t want to admit to himself. And if I am causing a stir in church with my head covered, he can’t ignore that. He can ignore my rosary, daily readings, going to confession, etc. I am not wanting to judge him, I used to be just like that and then I woke up. I really wish he could wake up to, but I pray for him everyday. Hopefully Our Mother will wake him up soon. Our faith is so beautiful if you understand it, and I wish everyone did. Thanks for all of the interesting points you all have brought up.
 
SpiritusSanctus said:
A poster already touched up on your issue about calling priests “Father” on page 3 of this thread. I agree with that poster. Read it for your answer.

By the way, telling me I need to “read up on some of the basics of Catholicism” is ad hominem. I have read so many Catholic books and articles it’s incredible. Again, how do you think I know so much about what happened at Vatican II? It’s called research.
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You haven’t apparently read things that are in harmony with the Magisterium (which is what matters and is true). If you’re getting your information from people who are distorting the truth, then you’re going to get distorted information.

The poster didn’t answer my question. The poster said the question has been answered, but never gave the answer. I ask again. One command from St. Paul, “traditionalists” insist on. A similar command from our Blessed Lord they ignore? Reconcile the two.
 
nurselisa99 said:
Just wanted to clarify that I was a visitor at the SSPX service, I do not belong there or show any allegiance with LeFebreve. I belong to an ordinary Catholic Church that truly does not have that much life in it, and I was happy to see some people excited about what they were doing. I think the issue with my husband is that as I learn more about our faith, he is getting uncomfortable, because he knows he is doing some things he shouldn’t be and doesn’t want to admit that to himself. He absolutely goes nuts when anyone confronts him with the church’s sexual teachings. So, I think the more religious I get, the more he worries about what he doesn’t want to admit to himself. And if I am causing a stir in church with my head covered, he can’t ignore that. He can ignore my rosary, daily readings, going to confession, etc. I am not wanting to judge him, I used to be just like that and then I woke up. I really wish he could wake up to, but I pray for him everyday. Hopefully Our Mother will wake him up soon. Our faith is so beautiful if you understand it, and I wish everyone did. Thanks for all of the interesting points you all have brought up.
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Oh, my dear friend…YOU are going to save your husband’s soul (or God is through you)! Do you not see, he’s already kicking against the goad! Keep up your quiet witness! Like St. Monica, you’ll make your husband a saint.
 
Famule said:
The Church never got rid of the covering of the heads of women. Why is it always about getting by with what we can as long as its not a sin? What about the attitude of what can we do for God? I am tired of hearing a bunch of “I thinks.” Its not about what we think. It is about what our teachings and traditions and scriptures say. You have to look at the whole picture. The whole 2000 years worth of picture.
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Not “got rid of” in the sense of issuing a decree. Allowed a choice, ended a discipline, etc, it amounts to the same thing.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Not “got rid of” in the sense of issuing a decree. Allowed a choice, ended a discipline, etc, it amounts to the same thing.
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It never changed anything on it. It never addressed it officially.
 
Famule said:
It never changed anything on it. It never addressed it officially.
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On the contrary, it has clearly and officially addressed it when it called it a matter of discipline. It’s been allowed to lapse.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
On the contrary, it has clearly and officially addressed it when it called it a matter of discipline. It’s been allowed to lapse.
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Oh, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. What is the document you quoted?
 
Boy the back and forth argument about liturgical custom is just amazing. I am a man, but I take one look at any statue of Mary, our mother, and she is always wearing a veil.

So many women see a head covering, and the associated teachings of St. Paul, as anti-woman. “I don’t need that veil (and all they think it represents) to be just a respectful as anyone else”. While the legal requirement to wear a veil is not “on the books” in the 1983 code, the reasoning for wearing a veil and the request of St. Paul and the example set by Mary has not changed and never will.

Women who choose to wear a veil out of obedience to St. Paul’s teachings or to immitate our Blessed Mother are honoring both by their choice. Those women who choose not to veil because it is “not on the books”, and this is just my opinion, are loosing out on the extra honor that they can show to our Lady through their immitation of her.

I, as a man, really like to see the veil being used. It just seems proper. If you have a calling to wear a veil then please do so. You are at Mass to worship our Lord and participate in his sacrifice and attone for your sins. Anything that we can do to make ourselves more disposed to more perfectly participate will only be pleasing to God and all in heaven.

Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus.
 
onegreenclover said:
So I just wore a mantilla to mass this morning. It was pretty scary at first and I’m not sure what to think about my experience.

What are some other people’s experiences either wearing one or seeing someone wear it? (not that it matters what other people think but just curious)

Thanks!
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At my parish - some women wear them, some don’t. Some are young, some are old. No one stares and no one (to my knowledge) has anything to say about it one way or the other. 😉
 
moon1234 said:
Boy the back and forth argument about liturgical custom is just amazing. I am a man, but I take one look at any statue of Mary, our mother, and she is always wearing a veil.

So many women see a head covering, and the associated teachings of St. Paul, as anti-woman. “I don’t need that veil (and all they think it represents) to be just a respectful as anyone else”. While the legal requirement to wear a veil is not “on the books” in the 1983 code, the reasoning for wearing a veil and the request of St. Paul and the example set by Mary has not changed and never will.

Women who choose to wear a veil out of obedience to St. Paul’s teachings or to immitate our Blessed Mother are honoring both by their choice. Those women who choose not to veil because it is “not on the books”, and this is just my opinion, are loosing out on the extra honor that they can show to our Lady through their immitation of her.

I, as a man, really like to see the veil being used. It just seems proper. If you have a calling to wear a veil then please do so. You are at Mass to worship our Lord and participate in his sacrifice and attone for your sins. Anything that we can do to make ourselves more disposed to more perfectly participate will only be pleasing to God and all in heaven.

Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus.
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No one questions the RIGHT of women to wear veils for devotional purposes. The objection is that some say that it is necessary, which the Church has essentially said isn’t true. And Saint Paul said nothing about veiling in honor of the Blessed Mother. She wore a veil because that was the custom of her time. A woman could be in perfect accord with our Lady, in perfect immitation of Her, and never wear a veil.
 
All right, just want to say…

Isn’t Vatican II a real, valid Church Council? And if they said veils are unnecessary, they aren’t.

I’m a bit ignorant on this subject, so these are genuine questions, not bait questions. I’d really appreciate answers.

First of all I’m Catholic and I’ve never heard of this, but now I’ve seen St. Paul’s scripture verse. My question is, why are men not asked to wear a covering of some sort? Why only women? I have to say that, at first notice, it DOES sound a bit disrespectful to women from my point of view, though I’m sure that I’m simply looking at it the wrong way.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
All right, just want to say…

Isn’t Vatican II a real, valid Church Council? And if they said veils are unnecessary, they aren’t.

I’m a bit ignorant on this subject, so these are genuine questions, not bait questions. I’d really appreciate answers.
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Vatican II said, as far as I know, absolutely nothing whatsoever about headcoverings.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
All right, just want to say…

Isn’t Vatican II a real, valid Church Council? And if they said veils are unnecessary, they aren’t.

I’m a bit ignorant on this subject, so these are genuine questions, not bait questions. I’d really appreciate answers.

First of all I’m Catholic and I’ve never heard of this, but now I’ve seen St. Paul’s scripture verse. My question is, why are men not asked to wear a covering of some sort? Why only women? I have to say that, at first notice, it DOES sound a bit disrespectful to women from my point of view, though I’m sure that I’m simply looking at it the wrong way.
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The argument is about the code of Canon Law being silent about the wearing of Head Coverings. Many previous laws in the 1917 code were simply codified customs that had been practiced in the church; some for over 1000 years (such as head coverings).

When changes were made to the law and some of the previous codified customs were no longer on the books, the people who made this change wanted the people to personally make the choice to follow the immemorial custom instead of it being a law. In this way the people would be doing it for the greater glory of God and of themselves and not just because it was a codified law. Many, including myself, think that this was a poor decision. Especially in this modern legalistic society.

What happened though was many modern people in western society looked at this change and said “Ohh, it is no longer on the books therefore I don’t have to do it anymore”. This was the opposite intent of what the people making the changes intended.

Even Annabelle Bugnini, the imafmnous prelate who suggested/made many of the VII liturgical changes, came out after the council when many feminists in the western world were throwing off their veils and declared that this custom was still in force.

Many modern people do not want to see/respect the hierachical system that Christ setup for the Christ and that St. Paul teaches. The husband is the head of the family and so to veil his head would be to disrepect his position as head of the family. (Just as Christ is the head of the Church.) Women are to veil their heads out of respect of the head of the family/church.

Mary’s veiling is not simply a “custom of the time”, but a respect of the system that Christ/God created for his people on earth.

Look at what has happened with the requirement to not eat meat on Friday. This requirement is STILL in force during the WHOLE year. The only difference now is that the church allows some other type of pennenace to be substituted in place of not eating meat on Friday’s outside of Lent. What actually happened though is many Catholic abandoned ANY type of pennance at all. The other unintended consequence is that the secular world no longer sees all Catholics eating fish on Fridays. They no longer see a witness to their faith. The same could be said for the use of the chapel veil by women.

The fact that many women see themselves equal to men today is part of the problem. We all have the same dignity as human persons, but we are called to perform different roles in this world. Western secular society seeks to destroy the unique position each sex is called to.

Traditional customs are not just nice, antiquated things we look back on and then dismiss as no longer needed. Customs exist for a reason. Their practice unites us with all \previous and present Catholics. They should not be just dissmissed as no longer necessary or proper.
 
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