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tafan
Guest
Sorry, confessions and weddings are both sacraments. Confessionals have to be heated and lighted. You don’t charge for sacraments.
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Lorelei12
Guest
People can get married during a regular Mass if they want. If they are asking the church, priest, and others to spend more of their time and resources outside of normal church use, it’s not an unreasonable expectation. It’s not “charging for a sacrament”, it’s asking for a donation to cover additional time and expenses.
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VivienneJ
Guest
Quite, it’s not paying for the sacrament, it is paying for the use of the building by a large group of people and preventing any other activities taking place in the building at that time.
Just for example, sacristans setting up for the regular Mass have to take the time of the wedding into account. Normal cleaning and preparation for a regular Mass may have to be done at a different time than usual.
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Xantippe
Guest
“Most churches will work with a couple that truly has difficulty paying the fees. But how is it scandalous to ask for a few hundred dollars from a couple having a reception costing at least a few thousand?”
Think about all of the couples that will be too embarrassed to ask.
Charging for a reception space is totally OK, but charging for the wedding itself is not. I would suggest just charging for extra bells and whistles (and be as creative as you like), but the basic wedding should be free. It is, however, totally acceptable to ask that those free basic weddings be at particular times that are convenient to the parish.
And it doesn’t make sense to ask to be recompensed for marriage prep when that is a requirement for a Catholic wedding. Couples are not demanding marriage prep (although they probably should)–that is something that the Church requires of us.
Think about all of the couples that will be too embarrassed to ask.
Charging for a reception space is totally OK, but charging for the wedding itself is not. I would suggest just charging for extra bells and whistles (and be as creative as you like), but the basic wedding should be free. It is, however, totally acceptable to ask that those free basic weddings be at particular times that are convenient to the parish.
And it doesn’t make sense to ask to be recompensed for marriage prep when that is a requirement for a Catholic wedding. Couples are not demanding marriage prep (although they probably should)–that is something that the Church requires of us.
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maryjk
Guest
They aren’t being charged for the sacrament.
If they were willing to have their wedding during Mass, with no additional services, there wouldn’t be a charge.
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Catholic_775
Guest
** A Catholic totally destroys the protestant arguments in this recent Youtube debate. Here is the link…
youtube.com/watch?v=Qn1vC1Ez-OI **
youtube.com/watch?v=Qn1vC1Ez-OI **
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YADA
Guest
As others have said - you are not paying for the Sacrament … These accusations are common - especially as they relate to weddings … I find them a real injustice to the Church and the people who serve their parish communities - whether ordained or lay.
… as if couples have the right to order up a wedding like its Burger King [have it your way] and then skip out on the responsibilityWhen a couple wants to have the Church opened and used - yes to receive a Sacrament - but also for an exclusive guest list, specific time, etc … additional costs outside the normal parish operations are incurred … and not merely on the day of the “Sacrament” …
The couple can profess their vows during the normal - regularly scheduled Mass with all their guests and whomever else is in attendance … with the music and readings for that Mass … I have witnessed this in Guatemala - though I was merely a person there to participate in the Mass as a person who just happened to be there … It was very interesting and special in its own way … I am thankful for having been there …
Our parish charges $100 cleaning fee … because the parish organist/music minister works with the planning for music, rehearsing with the Cantor etc all of which is performed outside of the regular work schedule - the cost is $150 …
A stipend of $100 is suggested for the Cantor - a trained volunteer from our parish choir [though expect you could have an outside cantor that would work with our organist … liturgically this all has to be in accordance with good liturgy … as I guess would be true for the musicians - but they would still have to work and plan with the organist/music minister …
The marriage preparation with the parish staff and the priest is all provided … the Marriage Encounter Weekend and Natural Family Planning [required] are provided outside the parish and there are fees to cover cost of materials, retreat lodging and meals.
Several of our priests have informed us that stipends are a past practice - the means by which priests supported themselves before the Church was required to pay them a salary in addition to the housing and utilities [and also before they were covered by social security] and as such they should not be offered nor will they accept a stipend
I tried to give the priest a stipend when my daughter got married - this priest returned it to me and told e to write another check - in the name of the couple [and since he had been assigned a new parish across the state - he incurred expenses to travel back to the parish to perform her marriage - which meant a lot to my daughter].
Our Deacons because they are not paid by the parish can accept stipends. However - the one who has been ordained the longest would not take anything from me for officiating at my spouse’s vigil service - nor the planning - though I did pay a stipend for the Cantors [Vigil and Funeral] … the funeral was on Friday during the work week thus the organist was paid their normal salary … As for our newly ordained deacon -
… it has not ever come up *** a remote possibility / opportunity
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white_sheep
Guest
I’ve never heard of that option, nor seen it exercised.
It is basically charging for a sacrament. There is a rather circular argument around it. We aren’t charging for the wedding, just the building, and the only place you are allowed to get married is in our building. Let’s not mince words or play mind games here, they’re charging you for the wedding.
Now I understand that most people spend quite a hefty sum on their wedding and asking for an extra grand doesn’t seem like a big deal, but that doesn’t change the facts any.
We paid $1070 not including the fees for classes which was about $150. $570 went to use of the facility, $250 was required to pay the organist whether or not you use him, and we gave a $250 stipend to the deacon. It was apparently a magnet church in the area for weddings, being all traditional and nice and normal looking and not a modern office building looking church. They don’t usually marry non-parishioners at all. The secretary tried to run me off but I wouldn’t have it. I was, after all, a registered parishioner there, and my fiance was in RCIA there at that time.
We got married as cheaply as we could and I think spent $4,000 or less in addition to the $1200 we gave the church. So, yes, that was a bit painful.
If it bothers you, just take it out of the 10% you tithe every month until you’re evened back out. Of course this is just like baptism classes, just something you have to deal with because of all the bad Catholics out there. If there weren’t so many bad Catholics they wouldn’t have to use baptism class to try to straighten everyone out, and if everyone tithed some amount closer to 10% than 0% they wouldn’t have to charge for weddings.
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tafan
Guest
Letting people know they have a general obligation ( under pain of mortal sin) to support their parish is fine. Asking for a donation , in a specific amount, specifically for a wedding is the same as having a fee. As for having a wedding at a normally scheduled mass, that is something not normally done in this country. I am skeptical if most parishes would allow that. Should a priest charge a fee or ask for a donation if some wants to schedule an appointment for confession outside of regularly scheduled time?
What part of " don’t charge for sacraments" do people not understand?
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Xantippe
Guest
“As for having a wedding at a normally scheduled mass, that is something not normally done in this country. I am skeptical if most parishes would allow that.”
Yeah–think about the practicalities involved when 100-400 extra people show up at a normal mass. On a Sunday or a Holy Day, it would be standing room only. On a normal weekday, there would be room, but the regular daily Mass goers would probably be very annoyed if their normal 30 minute lunchtime Mass regularly doubled in length when they still need to squeeze in lunch before heading back to work.
That just doesn’t make sense as an option.
“Should a priest charge a fee or ask for a donation if some wants to schedule an appointment for confession outside of regularly scheduled time? What part of " don’t charge for sacraments” do people not understand?"
Yep.
As a parishioner who normally writes a several hundred dollar check to our parish (and sometimes two parishes) every month, I would be royally ticked off to be charged for the church at my home parish. In fact, if I knew they did that, and they did not stop, it would probably cease to be my home parish. (I note that we normally make a gift to the celebrant of somewhere between $100 and $150 for baptisms. As I may have mentioned upthread, I think we gave the parish where we got married $150–which was about a quarter of our wedding budget at the time.)
Squeezing people harder does not make them more generous or holy. It’s also a very bad witness.
Yeah–think about the practicalities involved when 100-400 extra people show up at a normal mass. On a Sunday or a Holy Day, it would be standing room only. On a normal weekday, there would be room, but the regular daily Mass goers would probably be very annoyed if their normal 30 minute lunchtime Mass regularly doubled in length when they still need to squeeze in lunch before heading back to work.
That just doesn’t make sense as an option.
“Should a priest charge a fee or ask for a donation if some wants to schedule an appointment for confession outside of regularly scheduled time? What part of " don’t charge for sacraments” do people not understand?"
Yep.
As a parishioner who normally writes a several hundred dollar check to our parish (and sometimes two parishes) every month, I would be royally ticked off to be charged for the church at my home parish. In fact, if I knew they did that, and they did not stop, it would probably cease to be my home parish. (I note that we normally make a gift to the celebrant of somewhere between $100 and $150 for baptisms. As I may have mentioned upthread, I think we gave the parish where we got married $150–which was about a quarter of our wedding budget at the time.)
Squeezing people harder does not make them more generous or holy. It’s also a very bad witness.
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Xantippe
Guest
I’ve never seen a wedding at a regularly scheduled Mass in the US. Baptisms yes and probably some confirmations and a renewal of vows, too, but never a wedding.
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tafan
Guest
Yea, I doubt seriously if any parish has that as a “free wedding option” as a previous poster implied.
Now, I did see it once at a Saturday morning mass I attended in Mexico. So it may not be that uncommon in other parts of the world.
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YADA
Guest
Just because you have never heard of the alternative - does not mean that it does not exist …
You definitely did not pay for the Sacrament … you could have been married - exchanged your vows in about minutes … you did not need to have music nor exclusive us of the parish outside of the norm hours of operations … you did not need cantors or any of that …
I was on a medical mission trip to Guatemala in 2007 … the weekend before we flew home to the states we spent in a upscale coastal resort area near the airport …at the regularly scheduled - Saturday Vigil Mass - a couple was married … the only way to tell the wedding guests from the normal parishioners and tourists like me - was that some wore a lapel flower - though I am not sure that all guests did … they had a small band that played during the Mass - that was for the wedding - but they performed the liturgical music … before Communion - the priest had the couple profess their vows - the Mass continued … after Mass - before the recessional the priest introduced the couple … the wedding party recessed out with the priest … it really was very nice - what a witness to the Church parish community at large …
Since it was a tourist area - there were also people wandering through the Church looking at the art and architecture - which I found less endearing …
Here in the States - we want private events - that is the norm - exclusive guest lists - music and readings specifically for the couple, the church decorated to fit the taste and color scheme of the couple not for the liturgy or the parish etc … I believe that the practice I witnessed in Guatemala was probably common in times past …
You may not have wanted to use the musician or cantors from the parish - and your guests may have behaved impeccably … but - in truth - the preparation for your wedding, the clean-up and use of the church with the liability … is a real cost …
Now perhaps if we supported our parishes more generously - the added cost burden of this individualized event could be absorbed …
That said if one your guests pukes all over the floor in the bathroom or the flower girl flushes her flowers down the toilet and plug it up - I want the parish to be able to get the repairs and cleanup made … if a still inebriated guest falls over the gift table and sues the church - I want the insurance premium paid so the church can remain open if some crazy jury hands out an award that would put the parish in bankruptcy …all of these types of events have happened at weddings - sad as the thought can be
No one pays for the Sacrament … … its the trappings that people demand, desire …
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maryjk
Guest
They offered it to us.
We didn’t have a large guest list. And we ended up having our ceremony in the chapel.
No one is saying that to be married you have to invite 400 of your closest friends. Or that you have to have 5 attendants. Or that you have to have the church opened 2 hours before the wedding so the florists can deliver truckloads of flowers.
THAT is why people are charged. They aren’t charged for the wedding. They are charged because they want the fairy tale. And guess what? The fairy tale costs money.
We spent much less than that. And we weren’t asked to pay anything to the church.
But as I said, we were married in the chapel.
Probably true.
Churches are always looking for money to pay the bills. If everyone donated 10%, pastors would have a much easier job.
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Allegra
Guest
I’ve seen a wedding done immediatly after Mass on a Sunday. I don’t think it’s that uncommon.
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Xantippe
Guest
YADA said:
“You definitely did not pay for the Sacrament … you could have been married - exchanged your vows in about minutes … you did not need to have music nor exclusive us of the parish outside of the norm hours of operations … you did not need cantors or any of that …”
And we did not have a cantor. I think we had the priest, the organist (should have tipped her–I’ll remember for my daughters’ weddings) and the parish secretary who served as a witness. And nobody asked us for money.
“at the regularly scheduled - Saturday Vigil Mass - a couple was married … the only way to tell the wedding guests from the normal parishioners and tourists like me - was that some wore a lapel flower - though I am not sure that all guests did … they had a small band that played during the Mass - that was for the wedding - but they performed the liturgical music … before Communion - the priest had the couple profess their vows - the Mass continued … after Mass - before the recessional the priest introduced the couple … the wedding party recessed out with the priest … it really was very nice - what a witness to the Church parish community at large …”
How do you pack 100 guests into an already full church? That only works if normal attendance is low and there’s lots of room.
“You may not have wanted to use the musician or cantors from the parish - and your guests may have behaved impeccably … but - in truth - the preparation for your wedding, the clean-up and use of the church with the liability … is a real cost …”
We had ourselves and a literal handful of guests (I can’t quite recall at the moment, but it was less than half a dozen people) and no decorations at all. Why should we have had to pay the big bucks?
“That said if one your guests pukes all over the floor in the bathroom or the flower girl flushes her flowers down the toilet and plug it up - I want the parish to be able to get the repairs and cleanup made … if a still inebriated guest falls over the gift table and sues the church - I want the insurance premium paid so the church can remain open if some crazy jury hands out an award that would put the parish in bankruptcy …all of these types of events have happened at weddings - sad as the thought can be”
That sounds like reception type stuff, rather than wedding ceremony stuff (except the flower girl). Charge all you like for reception space, but don’t charge for the wedding.
“You definitely did not pay for the Sacrament … you could have been married - exchanged your vows in about minutes … you did not need to have music nor exclusive us of the parish outside of the norm hours of operations … you did not need cantors or any of that …”
And we did not have a cantor. I think we had the priest, the organist (should have tipped her–I’ll remember for my daughters’ weddings) and the parish secretary who served as a witness. And nobody asked us for money.
“at the regularly scheduled - Saturday Vigil Mass - a couple was married … the only way to tell the wedding guests from the normal parishioners and tourists like me - was that some wore a lapel flower - though I am not sure that all guests did … they had a small band that played during the Mass - that was for the wedding - but they performed the liturgical music … before Communion - the priest had the couple profess their vows - the Mass continued … after Mass - before the recessional the priest introduced the couple … the wedding party recessed out with the priest … it really was very nice - what a witness to the Church parish community at large …”
How do you pack 100 guests into an already full church? That only works if normal attendance is low and there’s lots of room.
“You may not have wanted to use the musician or cantors from the parish - and your guests may have behaved impeccably … but - in truth - the preparation for your wedding, the clean-up and use of the church with the liability … is a real cost …”
We had ourselves and a literal handful of guests (I can’t quite recall at the moment, but it was less than half a dozen people) and no decorations at all. Why should we have had to pay the big bucks?
“That said if one your guests pukes all over the floor in the bathroom or the flower girl flushes her flowers down the toilet and plug it up - I want the parish to be able to get the repairs and cleanup made … if a still inebriated guest falls over the gift table and sues the church - I want the insurance premium paid so the church can remain open if some crazy jury hands out an award that would put the parish in bankruptcy …all of these types of events have happened at weddings - sad as the thought can be”
That sounds like reception type stuff, rather than wedding ceremony stuff (except the flower girl). Charge all you like for reception space, but don’t charge for the wedding.
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Lorelei12
Guest
When we met with our priest, he gave us a sheet of costs that outlined what they normally ask people to pay. On the sheet were costs for the organist, marriage prep program, church donation, and so forth. For the church donation part, he told us “This is a list of what we ask of couples, but if you don’t think you can afford it, we’ll be happy to accept whatever amount you think you can afford”. We figured that if we can afford a cake, dress, reception, and flowers, we can certainly afford what they were asking.
In the case of a couple that would be embarrassed, they wouldn’t have had to ask, because he made it clear that it was really more of a “guide” than a “if you don’t pay this, you don’t get married”. If a couple is struggling financially and wants to be married, I would imagine that most parishes would be like ours.
I just don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for a donation when a couple is asking to reserve the entire church for a block of several hours, require the office staff to handle paperwork and coordinate, organize the readings, intentions, and so forth. Most weddings are not small affairs and parishes are willing to work with those who can’t afford it. By and large though, it takes a lot of work on the part of the parish to coordinate a wedding, and they deserve financial support for that whenever possible.
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YADA
Guest
Many times the groom and grooms men are still hungover from the bachelor party … now many times the bride and bridesmaid are too [as more and more brides are having similar party nights - go figure - I guess that is part of the equality that was necessary between the sexes
] … so yes - puking at the ceremony is not unheard of … not to mention - just plain nerves … flowers, etc … not to mention the rehearsal and planning aspects … the wedding ceremony is not merely just the event …250 people all using the facilities - toilet paper, water consumption - flushing, etc … photographers taking pictures before the wedding and after … not just during … heating or air conditioning, the lights … someone to open and close the church … the clean-up before the next scheduled use - a Saturday PM wedding is typically followed by the weekend Vigil … or the Masses on Sunday AM … perhaps even another wedding - who knows …
The couple is not paying for the Sacrament - but the niceties that they want to make the day 'special, their own, etc" …
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Corki
Guest
You’ve just explained why it’s appropriate to charge for the wedding. The fee is for the privilege of reserving and using the space for 100-400 people.
It’s done all the time. There are also lower key options for couples who are having a marriage ceremony without a Mass.
Are you advocating charging for Confession?
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Xantippe
Guest
Corki said:
“Are you advocating charging for Confession?”
No–advocating for not charging for weddings. Or baptism. Or confirmation. Or last rites. Or ordination. Or anointing of the sick.
If it’s such a huge headache to hold weddings in church, maybe we need to unbend and start having Catholic weddings outside the actual church building.
“Are you advocating charging for Confession?”
No–advocating for not charging for weddings. Or baptism. Or confirmation. Or last rites. Or ordination. Or anointing of the sick.
If it’s such a huge headache to hold weddings in church, maybe we need to unbend and start having Catholic weddings outside the actual church building.
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