Church without kneelers

[Colorfast_Bear]

I am returning to the Catholic faith, having been away for over sixteen years. I now live in a new city and am attending a new parish. I know things change, but I was shocked to find no kneelers in the entire church. Both before and after Communion (even after confession), the parishioners just stay seated. Even if I tried to kneel (appearing “odd” in the crowd), there’s not enough room between the rows to kneel. Is this a new policy in the Church or perhaps now just an option?

It makes me feel very uncomfortable. Am I just out of step with “new” church policies?

 

[Oshiego_Rod]

I am returning to the Catholic faith, having been away for over sixteen years. I now live in a new city and am attending a new parish. I know things change, but I was shocked to find no kneelers in the entire church. Both before and after Communion (even after confession), the parishioners just stay seated. Even if I tried to kneel (appearing “odd” in the crowd), there’s not enough room between the rows to kneel. Is this a new policy in the Church or perhaps now just an option?

It makes me feel very uncomfortable. Am I just out of step with “new” church policies?

First, welcome back and God bless you.

About the missing kneelers. It is not a new policy in the Church and it all depends on the facilitating Priest. You can bring up your concerns to your Bishop or look for another Parish. If you feel like kneeling then by all means kneel.

 

[Walking_Home]

I am returning to the Catholic faith, having been away for over sixteen years. I now live in a new city and am attending a new parish. I know things change, but I was shocked to find no kneelers in the entire church. Both before and after Communion (even after confession), the parishioners just stay seated. Even if I tried to kneel (appearing “odd” in the crowd), there’s not enough room between the rows to kneel. Is this a new policy in the Church or perhaps now just an option?

It makes me feel very uncomfortable. Am I just out of step with “new” church policies?

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No — the Church did not implement a policy to remove the kneelers. This happened as a result of un-authorized changes done to our churches. You may want to listen to what Card. Arinze --the prefect for the Congregation of Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments says on this issue.

the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2008/06/classic-arinze.html

 

[Sam_Maloney]

I sit on an outside aisle, and kneel anyway.

Possibly the only time in my life when I serve as a good example.

 

[rjs1]

If you feel like kneeling then by all means kneel.

We should not just kneel if we happen to feel like it. We should kneel before the God of Heaven and Earth. St Paul even talks about bowing the knee at the name of Jesus. How much more when He is physically present in the Blessed Sacrament.

Those peole who have designed new Churches without kneelers are going to get a shock when they appear before God on the Day of Judgement. There they will find that kneeling is just the normal action when we face our Almighty God.

 

[Mike_Dye]

Kneeling during the Consecration is not optional or at the discretion of the pastor. It is mandated in the General Instructions of The Roman Missal. We should kneel even if no kneelers are present if at all possible. I, like you have been in situations where it was not physically possible to kneel, my moms nursing home for example; wall to wall wheelchairs, but this the exception, not the rule.

 

[KateD]

Personally, before you get too invested in the parish, my advice is to look for another one. My parish does not have kneelers, just chairs (and a horrible design to boot), and I can tell you there is much less reverence during many of our Masses, despite the best efforts of some of our priests. People chat like they’re at the movies, and no one but a few folks kneel (interestingly, the daily Mass has a much larger percentage of people who kneel).

 

[Oshiego_Rod]

We should not just kneel if we happen to feel like it. We should kneel before the God of Heaven and Earth. St Paul even talks about bowing the knee at the name of Jesus. How much more when He is physically present in the Blessed Sacrament.

Those peole who have designed new Churches without kneelers are going to get a shock when they appear before God on the Day of Judgement. There they will find that kneeling is just the normal action when we face our Almighty God.

Humbly corrected.

In fact we should be kneeling most especially during the Consecration of the Eucharist. At Latin Masses there is plenty of kneeling. But you are right when we should be kneeling not because of a feeling but because God is present.

 

[NeedImprovement]

As Mike Dye indicated: The Roman Missal approved by the National Conference of Bishops - USA ,stipulates kneeling from the end of the Sanctus [Holy, holy, holy…] (also called the beginning of the Eucharistic Prayer) right through to the grand Amen following the Memorial Acclamation (per ipsum -“Through Him ,with Him, in Him…”).

Nothing wrong with your instincts (kinda makes it difficult to tell who’s actually been away, doesn’t it? )

ps. Great username - Colorfast Bear

 

[Colorfast_Bear]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my question. I finally worked up enough nerve to call the archdiocese and ask for the name(s) of some reasonably close traditional parish(s), those that had kneelers, with a Crucifix behind the Altar, and with Stations of the Cross, etc. Thank God they gave me several.

I’ve been told by some trendy Catholics that they find tree branches twisted into the shape of a Cross less depressing than the Church’s old-fashioned Crucifix. Then there are other parishioners who find a Holy Water mini-fountain :sad_yes: (at the back of the Church), for making the Sign of the Cross or for baptisms, a relaxing sound during Mass. But I’m one Catholic that prefers to be in a Church lingering of incense, surrounded by statuary of the Holy Family and the Saints with hand-portrayed Stations of the Cross on walls between love-crafted stained glass windows punctuated by God’s Heavenly rays of Sun :bowdown2:.

May the Peace of God be with you all.
Colorfast Bear

 

[JulianN]

The baptismal font is supposed to have flowing water – this is the “living” water mentioned in Scripture.

 

[WestonGrant]

Ugh. This drives me crazy. I mean come on, what is up with these people?

Sorry you have to put up with it. Is there another parish around you.

 

[Frosty]

Regarding kneelers and pews in Catholic Churches, here is a bit of history that you might endeavour to think about. For the first 1200 years in the history of the Catholic Church, there was no seating at all. If people wished to sit, they sat either on the bare floor or on mats they would bring with them. The rest of the time they stood in the nave or knelt on the bare floor. Around about the 13th Century, in some churches, stone benches were placed along the walls, mainly for the elderly and infirm. In the 15th C, some churches placed wooden seating in the nave, usually long and narrow benches. No kneelers. People still knelt on the bare floor.
Then came the Reformation and the establishment of various Protestant sects. Because of the shift in emphasis from the altar to the pulpit, all their churches were built with pews so the congregation could sit for the long sermons from the pulpit. The Catholic churches gradually adopted this practice of inserting pews over a period of time. But still no kneelers. This idea of kneelers is a more recent practice. The Church I grew up attending did not have kneelers until after WW1 and it was built in 1827. Those kneelers were plain wooden ones, not drop down padded ones.
Many of the grand European Cathedrals and older churches still do not have pews or kneelers. Perhaps we have become too comfortable in some of our Western churches. It is not an abuse or some evil machination of VII enthusiasts if they are not present. We don’t need kneelers to kneel before the Lord.

 

[Walking_Home]

Regarding kneelers and pews in Catholic Churches, here is a bit of history that you might endeavour to think about. For the first 1200 years in the history of the Catholic Church, there was no seating at all. If people wished to sit, they sat either on the bare floor or on mats they would bring with them. The rest of the time they stood in the nave or knelt on the bare floor. Around about the 13th Century, in some churches, stone benches were placed along the walls, mainly for the elderly and infirm. In the 15th C, some churches placed wooden seating in the nave, usually long and narrow benches. No kneelers. People still knelt on the bare floor.
Then came the Reformation and the establishment of various Protestant sects. Because of the shift in emphasis from the altar to the pulpit, all their churches were built with pews so the congregation could sit for the long sermons from the pulpit. The Catholic churches gradually adopted this practice of inserting pews over a period of time. But still no kneelers. This idea of kneelers is a more recent practice. The Church I grew up attending did not have kneelers until after WW1 and it was built in 1827. Those kneelers were plain wooden ones, not drop down padded ones.
Many of the grand European Cathedrals and older churches still do not have pews or kneelers. Perhaps we have become too comfortable in some of our Western churches.** It is not an abuse or some evil machination of VII enthusiasts if they are not present. We don’t need kneelers to kneel before the Lord.**

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While it is true that we don’t need kneelers to kneel --we cannot deny that with the “Spirit of Vat II” revolution – kneelers and Altar rails were ripped out of many churches. The Church never authorized the removal of the kneelers/Altar rails. And as kneelers were done away with – so was kneeling itself in places. It seems the Pope and Card. Arinze have realized this has had a negative affect on the Church.

 

[Frosty]

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While it is true that we don’t need kneelers to kneel --we cannot deny that with the “Spirit of Vat II” revolution – kneelers and Altar rails were ripped out of many churches. The Church never authorized the removal of the kneelers/Altar rails. And as kneelers were done away with – so was kneeling itself in places. It seems the Pope and Card. Arinze have realized this has had a negative affect on the Church.

I was not talking about the removal of altar railings or the fact that kneeling is an important part of our worship. I was simply trying to explain that the absence of kneelers does not make a parish or the builders of new churches disobedient to Rome. They are there for the comfort of the parishoners. Period.

 

[PKinsale]

I was not talking about the removal of altar railings or the fact that kneeling is an important part of our worship. I was simply trying to explain that the absence of kneelers does not make a parish or the builders of new churches disobedient to Rome. They are there for the comfort of the parishoners. Period.

Yes, but … you will find that those parishes without kneelers do not have them for a reason. And the reason is *not *to encourage kneeling on the stone floor!

 

[Walking_Home]

I was not talking about the removal of altar railings or the fact that kneeling is an important part of our worship. I was simply trying to explain that the absence of kneelers does not make a parish or the builders of new churches disobedient to Rome. They are there for the comfort of the parishoners. Period.

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All things considered —Rome does not seem “happy” with the removal of kneelers.

 

[Tsuwano]

I think it is important to remember that kneeling as a sign of respect and subservience is particular to culture. Perhaps this is why the Church I attend here in Japan doesn’t even have kneelers, and never has. In fact, I’ve been to one church that didn’t even have pews, but tatami mats, and parishoners removed their shoes at the front door. Most folks stand during the prayers and offer bows at the consecration. In the western European context, If you feel you must kneel at certain points during the mass then, as others have suggested, kneel, but kneeling in and of itself does not automatically mean respect, and may have no meaning at all.

 

[Roza]

This reminds me of 2 things…

1. I did attend a Protestant church as a member for 3 yrs before coming back to a Catholic Church, I remember feeling awkward not seeing kneelers and a few times I remember seeing other members kneel anyway w/out them.
2. Speaking about older Churches, I remember seeing a movie based on a Henryk Sienkiewicz novel that in English was The Deluge (I believe it had the shrine of Our Lady of Czestochowa {e with the hook} in it) and no pews, no kneelers.

These days, yeah, I’d ask for the kneelers back. Still hoping and praying I’ll someday sync in again being back. It’s been over a year and still out of place, miss the Missalettes. Got to stop giving in to being stressed, I know that will help.

 

[TLM08]

I am returning to the Catholic faith, having been away for over sixteen years. I now live in a new city and am attending a new parish. I know things change, but I was shocked to find no kneelers in the entire church. Both before and after Communion (even after confession), the parishioners just stay seated. Even if I tried to kneel (appearing “odd” in the crowd), there’s not enough room between the rows to kneel. Is this a new policy in the Church or perhaps now just an option?

It makes me feel very uncomfortable. Am I just out of step with “new” church policies?

You are not out of step with the Holy Catholic Church, but you are out of step with demons who are actively destroying all that is sacred in your parish. Welcome home!