Church won't marry us

[1ke]

I did regular Mass after confession. My Catholic friends said I didnt need to do first communion or confirmation because I was an adult,They already have my baptism certificate, but I was baptized in a non catholic church as an infant

Wow, your friends are seriously ignorant of all things Catholic.

Registering at the parish doesn’t make you Catholic. Making a profession of faith and receiving the Sacraments of Initiation do.

I am sorry you never asked anyone about this. It is not the responsibility of the church office staff to contact you about this. Many people who are not Catholic do register in a parish-- such as spouses of Catholics. It would be your responsibility to ask for the Sacraments.

And, I think that if you let this lead you away from the Church you really need to reconsider this relationship. I can’t imagine putting my wedding day ahead of my husband’s spiritual well-being.

 

[Linnyo]

I don’t understand this at all. I married my husband before completing RCIA and, in actual fact, I would still have been able to marry him without becoming a catholic. Just book a different church. They can’t stop you.
Is your fiance a catholic? I just presumed he was but if he isn’t then that would be why.

They won’t let me get anything recorded(confirmation) until after I finish RCIA. So I have to wait all the way till April 2008…And my fiancee refuses to do that…so Im forced to go to her pastor…

 

[1ke]

I don’t understand this at all. I married my husband before completing RCIA and, in actual fact, I would still have been able to marry him without becoming a catholic. Just book a different church. They can’t stop you.

Is your husband a Catholic? His fiancee is NOT Catholic. To be married in the Catholic Church one of the parties must be a Catholic.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, I know it is tempting to rely on one’s friends, but one really has to make sure of things on one’s own. That’s why I am going to tell you to talk to your priest as well to make absolutely sure that he knows the situation and can give you the ‘real advice’. Even though I am fairly certain, from my own knowledge, of the facts regarding marriage of non Catholics, what ‘makes a Catholic Catholic’, it is possible that there are further circumstances in your case to consider, so please DO talk to your priest; try to get some documentation if you are even the least bit confused, and even try to talk to a priest in another parish just to make sure you have the same advice.

And God bless you and your fiancee! I hope that you -and eventually she as well-- will be joining the Catholic Church in the future.

 

[Renton405]

No, you are not being FORCED to go to her pastor. You are choosing not to be obedient to what your pastor says you must do. Your fiancee “refuses” to help to do the right thing for your faith. Hmmm… bad start to a marriage.

Well my fiancee has prepared for almost a year for this date. We have all the suits, the cake, the reception, the Djs, and the invitations all sent out…theres no turning back now…

The CC won’t re-baptize me because Im already baptized in the trinitarian formula(Lutheran)…

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Is your husband a Catholic? His fiancee is NOT Catholic. To be married in the Catholic Church one of the parties must be a Catholic.

If neither party is Catholic, there seems no reason they must be married in the Catholic Church.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Don’t worry, Ike’s advice would be valid only if you were a baptized Catholic not marrying in the church, not a baptized non-Catholic marrying in a non-Catholic Church. As a baptized Lutheran, you can marry in a Lutheran or other Protestant church (or even other places, I’m not sure if JPs are accepted, I think they are but cannot say so authoritatively), go through RCIA as you apparently desire, and then have your valid marriage convalidated in the Catholic church once you have been received into the Catholic Church.

Sometimes our love might look tough–but the majority of the posts here, maybe every single one indeed–are truly rooted in love and caring.

 

[1ke]

Don’t worry, Ike’s advice would be valid only if you were a baptized Catholic not marrying in the church, not a baptized non-Catholic marrying in a non-Catholic Church. As a baptized Lutheran, you can marry in a Lutheran or other Protestant church (or even other places, I’m not sure if JPs are accepted, I think they are but cannot say so authoritatively), go through RCIA as you apparently desire, and then have your valid marriage convalidated in the Catholic church once you have been received into the Catholic Church.

Sometimes our love might look tough–but the majority of the posts here, maybe every single one indeed–are truly rooted in love and caring.

Yes, at first I did not understand properly, as I had not rea further down where he says he was not baptized Catholic and had not begun the process of converting at all.

And, actually, there would be no need for convalidation at all. Two non-Catholic marry validly when they contract a marriage civilly or in their own denomination.

 

[Renton405]

Well it very disheartening because of all the penances I have done and all the communions I went to even if I was feeling bad…I thought the governing factor of what makes a person truely Catholic was belief in Christ, the sacraments, penance and belief in the apostolic church. Are all the penances I have done null??

 

[1ke]

If neither party is Catholic, there seems no reason they must be married in the Catholic Church.

Well, the first couple of posts were very confusing as to his status, Sacraments, etc. When he said he’d “joined” the Church.

 

[1ke]

Well it very disheartening because of all the penances I have done and all the communions I went to even if I was feeling bad…I thought the governing factor of what makes a person truely Catholic was belief in Christ, the sacraments, penance and belief in the apostolic church. Are all the penances I have done null??

You need to talk to your priest about this, but I would say “no”.

You do receive Reconciliation before you receive Confirmation and Eucharist when going through RCIA, so clearly those two Sacraments of Initiation are not required for the recepiton of the others. The only Sacrament required to receive the other Sacraments is Baptism-- and yours is valid.

As for what makes one Catholic officially, as an adult it is your profession of faith *and *reception into the Church via the Sacraments of Initiation.

 

[Renton405]

Yes, at first I did not understand properly, as I had not rea further down where he says he was not baptized Catholic and had not begun the process of converting at all.

And, actually, there would be no need for convalidation at all. Two non-Catholic marry validly when they contract a marriage civilly or in their own denomination.

Yea but after I finish RCIA I will have to convalidate our marriage in order for it to be fully valid correct??

 

[1ke]

Yea but after I finish RCIA I will have to convalidate our marriage in order for it to be fully valid correct??

No. Marrying in the Catholic form of marriage is only required for Catholics. Non-Catholics marry validly when the marry in their own denomination or in a civil ceremony.

You are a non-Catholic. She is a non-Catholic. You marry validly (presuming there are no impediments like prior marriages or something like her being your first cousin ).

When you become Catholic there is nothing to do. Convalidation is only required when a CATHOLIC marries invalidly and seeks to have their marriage validated. Yours will already be valid when you become a Catholic.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

No, actually your marriage as Protestant Christians will indeed be valid. If you want to rather ‘renew your vows’ once you have become Catholic (hopefully when BOTH of you are Catholic) you can CHOOSE to do so but you will not HAVE to do so. So, you will not need to convalidate at all, but again, if you want to renew your vows in front of a Catholic priest, just as any other validly married couple often chooses to do for a special anniversary or occasion, you may.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Im in an extremely difficult problem. Apparently me and my fiance were getting ready to get married in my church, we took the pre-Cana retreat, the focus test, counseling, etc. Now about a month before the date I find out that I cannot get married because I didn’t take RCIA and I have to complete it before they will marry us(I don’t have the records of confirmation). So now Im enrolled in RCIA and I find out that I won’t be finished with it until April of 2008 even though our marriage date is set for September 2007. My fiancee refuses to wait that long so she is going to get a pastor to marry us(she is non-catholic) and then said we could re-new our vows in the church once I finish RCIA(if the church will even let us do this). I am very angry because I feel very rejected by the church and they made me feel as if im not an “Official” Catholic because I haven’t taken RCIA(I felt my faith was being insulted and it was demeaning), and it says nowhere in the Code of Canan law or the Cathecism that I absolutly HAVE to take RCIA in order to be fully Catholic…

You were Baptized Catholic as an infant and received your First Holy Communion, but have not been Confirmed is what I’m hearing. If you were Confirmed the record would be at the parish church where you were Confirmed and also at the parish church where you wer Baptized. Check with them. If you know you have not been Confirmed. Canon Law says that if possible you should be Confirmed before receiving the Sacrament of Marriage. I assume to discover this at this late date is an error by the parish where you are preparing for Marriage. My opinion would be that you should contact the diocese and explain that you notified the parish 6 months before the anticipated date, have been preparing for Marriage as required by attending the pre-Cana retreat, the focus test, counseling, etc. And have now one month before the expected date had this come up. You do not belong in RCIA and should not be required to attend RCIA. You need to attend an adult Confirmation class and be Confirmed. You do not have to wait until Apr. of 2008 to be confirmed.

 

[mtr01]

Ok, I’m going to throw this out here because I’m not completely knowledgeable about this area and maybe someone could correct me. Also, the last thing I want to do is confuse Renton, so please understand this is conjecture.

In Renton’s case, he was validly baptized, but not in the Catholic Church (it’s still valid). He was given bad advice and thought by registering at a parish he would become Catholic. So, for the past two years, he’s been living like a Catholic and believing like a Catholic, and I assume he believes everything he is required to believe. My question is, wouldn’t it be possible to accepted into the Church with just a profession of faith (without the need for RCIA - which was designed for non-Christian converts)? If so, he could make his profession and then be admitted to confession and communion. I would imagine this could be done relatively quickly (especially concerning his situation). Further, I understand that it is not completely necessary to be confirmed before being married, so once the wedding has taken place he could attend adult Confirmation classes.

If the above is possible, it is certainly preferable than changing plans at the last minute to accommodate another church and minister.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Actually, I think it’s a common misconception that RCIA was designed for adult non Christians. Many ‘cradle, practicing Catholics’ attend RCIA classes (though not, of course, winding up at Easter being received into the Church) simply because in a good RCIA program they get the Catholic education that they might have missed.

Just think for a minute – do you honestly feel that if you were a Protestant, with who knows what history of attendence at that liturgy and who knows what knowledge of Catholicism (and not to cast stones but Renton himself did not realize what was involved in ‘joining the church’ and neither did his Catholic friends; this is simply an acknowledgement of what happened without casting any blame)–that ‘going to Mass’ (no instruction on what the Mass is, no instruction on the Catechism and the articles of belief for Catholics in all aspects of life, etc.)–that you could simply ‘profess a faith’ and be fully Catholic?

It’s one thing for somebody who may have not only gone to the Mass, studied the Mass, studied the Catechism and is able to articulate and formally profess a belief in ALL Catholic teachings to just ‘profess faith’; it is far different to expect somebody who really does not know the entirety of what is involved in being Catholic to ‘join’ just on a verbal profession with no other preparation needed.

 

[TraditionalCath]

I didn’t have anything recorded. Thats what the problem is. And they won’t take my word. I was baptized as an infant, thats the only record I have…When I joined the church I did confession and then I started going to Mass regularly after that…

as far as i know, if you can prove your a Catholic , which you can, have you recieved First Holy Communion yet? if so then you can asked to be confirmed as soon as possible. but if you have not received First Holy Communion, then you must go to RCIA before you can be confirmed. you can only be confirmed after you receive First Holy Communion. you should do as the pastor suggests, and not get married until next year. it is worth the wait. i think you can convince your fiance to try to wait because it is worth the wait. anything worthwhile is worth the wait. ask her to reconsider and wait. april is not that far off you know. time goes by really fast.
please stick with your rcia and take the advice of the priest. i think you should speak to the priest about this too. tell him what is going on. be honest, and be charitable

 

[RevDrNorth]

As long as your baptism was trinitarian then that part if likely okay (if documented). Your problem is that you were not RCC, were not confirmed and just began attending Mass (etc?) but had never gone through RCIA (which you must). You are not really a Catholic (ie Roman Catholic). It is most unfortunate that the Church did not follow up with you. This is the sad part about many large RCC’s (many parishioners and not enough Priests). You lack the individual touch of a Pastor checking up on you and so on (not really the Priest’s fault in a sense if they are really understaffed).

From my point of view I understand why you are upset but it is the RCC ball field, rules and equipment. You have to play by the rules and that is fair. Your options are to wait OR to go ahead and marry and then have it recognized in the church. I must say that this can be frowned on. A RCC Priest friend of mine got ticked about a couple planning a large recognition of their marriage. His attitude was they had their shot and now this is just a simple recongition of the marriage in the Church and he meant emphasis on simple.

RCIA was enjoyable. I went through it. Could not get into much of the Marian dogma BUT the well respected guy leading the class told me it was not mandatory so not to worry about (after experience here I can see there would be a difference of opinion and Mother Angelica would likely have kicked some butt). I enjoyed the classes, learned a lot and became Catholic (obviously eventually left)

Good luck. Don’t give up on the faith you love over this issue!!!

Rev North

 

[rwoehmke]

Just to sum things up as there has been a lot of confusion here. Renton was baptized in the Lutheran Church, basically walked into and registered in a Catholic Parish. Thought he was then Catholic and acted accordingly.

Acting so does not make it so. He is not yet Catholic and neither is his fiancee. If neither was previously married they can be validly married anywhere they choose except in a Catholic Church. The marriage will be valid and not need convalidation later.

If either one has been previously married and divorced, their marriage will not be recognized by the Church, nor can he complete RCIA without an annullment from the Church

After completing RCIA, receiving the sacraments of reconciliation, eucharist and confirmation, he will be a Catholic. Till then if he wishes he may still attend Mass, but is not obligated to do so. He should not receive any of the sacraments until he is received officially into the Church.

Renton, I am sure God does not hold it against you for acting in good faith. I am not sure whether the confessions you made were valid. As a baptized person I expect you did validly receive the sacrament, but a priest should be able to give you a definitive answer.