Church won't marry us

[Renton405]

yea i start RCIA with human resources on monday and they issued a sponsor…I will probably just stay home on sunday or go to my fiancees church until April comes…my faith feels a little damaged from this but I will get over it. I don’t want to become bitter over the church because of this issue.

 

[RevDrNorth]

yea i start RCIA with human resources on monday and they issued a sponsor…I will probably just stay home on sunday or go to my fiancees church until April comes…my faith feels a little damaged from this but I will get over it. I don’t want to become bitter over the church because of this issue.

Hang in there. If you believe in the Catholic faith and love it this will be well worth it. Then you will be truly part of the family

Best wishes on your marriage. If your fiancee insists on the Protestant marriage then so be it but don’t forget to have it recognized in the Church.

God’s richest blessing upon you and your fiancee

Rev North

 

[Seatuck]

yea i start RCIA with human resources on monday and they issued a sponsor…I will probably just stay home on sunday or go to my fiancees church until April comes…my faith feels a little damaged from this but I will get over it. I don’t want to become bitter over the church because of this issue.

Renton, you need to go to Mass on Sundays if you have begun the process to enter the church. Please do try to get over it and forgive the Catholics who gave you bad advice. You were mislead by ignorance and not by the church. The church has no choice at this point but to insure that you truly understand the faith before you are received into her… It’s a shame this did not come out in your first confession or that you did not get good advice from the Catholics you knew. How about getting a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and also Catholicism for Dummies( I give this book as a gift all the time and quote from it too) to start seeing what it is the church wants to make sure you understand?I’m sorry this happend to you . I see how frustrated this makes you .

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I really feel bad about the OP’s situation. At this point, it is true that the Church can’t marry the OP, because neither party is “officially” Catholic. Still, it would have been nice if accomodations could have been made for a speedier RCIA course.

I would not worry at all about the penances. I don’t think the confessions are valid, but the acts of penance were certainly beneficial to your soul. The Lord knows your heart!

I have to make a small comment about you attending your fiancee’s church ‘in the meantime’. I think this is a mistake that may lead you away from the Church. If you are in RCIA with the intention of joining the Church you should attend Mass. Which brings to mind other issues for you to think about… if you have kids, is your fiancee willing to raise them Catholic, will you be going to Mass on Saturday’s and her church on Sunday’s, have you discussed these issues with her? I’m not asking you to discuss them here, I’m only saying that these things need to be decided before you get married. It is difficult for a Catholic to be married to a non-Catholic (not in every case, of course).

 

[YADA]

Renton,

You must attend Mass if yo truly want ti be a catholic christian. Attending RCIA requires also committing to Mass attendance. catholics are expected to not only participate every Sunday but also other Holy days of obligation.

Your ‘friends’ gave you bad advice but you must also have been less than thourough in registering with the parish and when making your first confession.

When I registered with a parish the first time the questions were fairly straight forward and went beyond just name and address. It requested information on our entire household, names of every member and sacramental status: Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist [location, name of church or parish and date or lack there of for every person], marital status etc. Marriage rite performed when and where etc.

Similarly, when i made my first confession, the priest knew it was my first confession and that it was a preparation for reception into the church and first communion etc. It seems odd that in two years, having a first confession experience [and others presumbly] plus other interactions, it was not ever apparent to you or any other catholic that your situation might be irregular.

You never witnessed any RCIA rites or rituals in two years [Rite of Welcoming, Rite of Sending, Rite of Election, the Dismissal form Mass during Lent or the Easter Vigil] nor read any parish bulletin or diocesan paper article about RCIA and wondered about your status? This almost seems bizarre…You never read the conditions for reception of Eucharist in the front of the missal and wondered if you were supposed to receive the Eucharist at Mass" You never thought to explained your situation to the priest or other parish staff person and ask if you should receive?

Take this as a wake up call to practice your faith more diligently, learn about what it means to be a catholic Christian. What else are you missing in your spiritual and faith life? Our faith is a wonderful blessing and a life full of graces…join the RCIA, bring your fiance and learn…

And just to head off another area that can raise its “ugly” head [and because your friends and parish seem timid]…

Have either you or yur fiance been married befoer and civilay divorced? If yes, then that party will need to seek a decision on the validity of that marriage before being able to obtain a Catholic Sacramental Marriage or Blessing. It does not matter that both of you are ot yet catholic and your faith tradition would not impede your seeking a second marriage. The Catholic Church presumes that the marriage of a Christian [or non Christian] - civilly or in a religious ceremony marries validly and sacramentally.

For example: If you married before a Justice of the Peace - it is presumed to be valid until determined otherwise and yet the same ceremony for a catholic would not be valid. if you and or your fiance is upset now, being surprised by this can be far more tramatic!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

You were Baptized Catholic as an infant and received your First Holy Communion, but have not been Confirmed is what I’m hearing. If you were Confirmed the record would be at the parish church where you were Confirmed and also at the parish church where you wer Baptized. Check with them. If you know you have not been Confirmed. Canon Law says that if possible you should be Confirmed before receiving the Sacrament of Marriage. I assume to discover this at this late date is an error by the parish where you are preparing for Marriage. My opinion would be that you should contact the diocese and explain that you notified the parish 6 months before the anticipated date, have been preparing for Marriage as required by attending the pre-Cana retreat, the focus test, counseling, etc. And have now one month before the expected date had this come up. You do not belong in RCIA and should not be required to attend RCIA. You need to attend an adult Confirmation class and be Confirmed. You do not have to wait until Apr. of 2008 to be confirmed.

I now understand that you were Baptized Lutheran and never offically joined the Catholic Church through the RCIA or a process like RCIA. So no you could not marry in the Catholic Church unless you become Catholic. This process should not take until Easter 2008, but will take longer than a month. I would suggest that you use what you learned in the Pre-Marriage preparation and go to a Lutheran pastor and explain the situation or follow your girl friends lead. I don’t believe the Lutheran religion requires Lutherans to be Married in a Lutheran community or by a Lutheran minister. So you Marriage would most likely be valid and accepted by the Catholic Church.

 

[martinporres]

Renton, my prayers for you, brother.

In order for sin to be mortal, you must have full knowledge of your error when committing it. You obviously did not, so do not worry about your soul in this mess.

I agree with the other posters who suggest still attending mass. It will do wonders.

I will be praying for you and your fiancee as you approach your blessed wedding next month. Congratulations!

mp

 

[1ke]

Ok, I’m going to throw this out here because I’m not completely knowledgeable about this area and maybe someone could correct me. Also, the last thing I want to do is confuse Renton, so please understand this is conjecture.

In Renton’s case, he was validly baptized, but not in the Catholic Church (it’s still valid). He was given bad advice and thought by registering at a parish he would become Catholic. So, for the past two years, he’s been living like a Catholic and believing like a Catholic, and I assume he believes everything he is required to believe. My question is, wouldn’t it be possible to accepted into the Church with just a profession of faith (without the need for RCIA - which was designed for non-Christian converts)? If so, he could make his profession and then be admitted to confession and communion. I would imagine this could be done relatively quickly (especially concerning his situation). Further, I understand that it is not completely necessary to be confirmed before being married, so once the wedding has taken place he could attend adult Confirmation classes.

If the above is possible, it is certainly preferable than changing plans at the last minute to accommodate another church and minister.

As a baptized Christian, yes, he could do exactly as you have outlined-- IF his pastor were to allow it. It seems he is not.

 

[Renton405]

Renton,

You must attend Mass if yo truly want ti be a catholic christian. Attending RCIA requires also committing to Mass attendance. catholics are expected to not only participate every Sunday but also other Holy days of obligation.

Your ‘friends’ gave you bad advice but you must also have been less than thourough in registering with the parish and when making your first confession.

When I registered with a parish the first time the questions were fairly straight forward and went beyond just name and address. It requested information on our entire household, names of every member and sacramental status: Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist [location, name of church or parish and date or lack there of for every person], marital status etc. Marriage rite performed when and where etc.

Similarly, when i made my first confession, the priest knew it was my first confession and that it was a preparation for reception into the church and first communion etc. It seems odd that in two years, having a first confession experience [and others presumbly] plus other interactions, it was not ever apparent to you or any other catholic that your situation might be irregular.

You never witnessed any RCIA rites or rituals in two years [Rite of Welcoming, Rite of Sending, Rite of Election, the Dismissal form Mass during Lent or the Easter Vigil] nor read any parish bulletin or diocesan paper article about RCIA and wondered about your status? This almost seems bizarre…You never read the conditions for reception of Eucharist in the front of the missal and wondered if you were supposed to receive the Eucharist at Mass" You never thought to explained your situation to the priest or other parish staff person and ask if you should receive?

Take this as a wake up call to practice your faith more diligently, learn about what it means to be a catholic Christian. What else are you missing in your spiritual and faith life? Our faith is a wonderful blessing and a life full of graces…join the RCIA, bring your fiance and learn…

And just to head off another area that can raise its “ugly” head [and because your friends and parish seem timid]…

Have either you or yur fiance been married befoer and civilay divorced? If yes, then that party will need to seek a decision on the validity of that marriage before being able to obtain a Catholic Sacramental Marriage or Blessing. It does not matter that both of you are ot yet catholic and your faith tradition would not impede your seeking a second marriage. The Catholic Church presumes that the marriage of a Christian [or non Christian] - civilly or in a religious ceremony marries validly and sacramentally.

For example: If you married before a Justice of the Peace - it is presumed to be valid until determined otherwise and yet the same ceremony for a catholic would not be valid. if you and or your fiance is upset now, being surprised by this can be far more tramatic!

Everyone was telling me RCIA was just an optional course. So it didn’t cross my mind after that. The conditions that I read about Euchairst was that a confession needs to be made before taking it when its your first time. Which I did. When I brought up things like confirmation my friends told me “I got that when I was a child, you don’t need that since your an adult and you can study the Cathecism on your own”. I find it irregular that the church never told me about any of this or outlined what I needed to do

No this is our first marriage. We have both never been married or divorced before…I already know that the church dosen’t remarry divorced people. We’ve agreed to get married with her pastor and then convalidate a little after april comes…I refuse to get married by a judge because I don’t want our wedding to be just another secular marriage. Since the deacon never told me about RCIA and these documents when we first started the marriage counseling I am forcibly put in a position that I myself don’t wanna be in.

Why must I go to Mass on Sunday if im not allowed to take eucharist anymore??

Is the marriage not a sacrament anymore?? is the effect of holy matrimony still in effect? or will this only happen after convalidation?

 

[Renton405]

Does this also mean that before RCIA is finished if I die I will be in danger of Hell??

 

[bear06]

Dear Renton, part of coming into the Catholic Church as an adult is to basically know the Faith before so that you can freely enter into the committment to the Catholic Church. I’m very sorry that you were mislead by your friends who obviously didn’t learn something along the way. This really is a blessing in disguise. If you didn’t know about the process of joining the Catholic Church then just imagine all of the other things you may not know. This isn’t a committment you want to take lightly like you impending marriage. You wouldn’t just rush into that, right? I’m sure you wanted to know as much about your fiance as you could before you make that committment. It is a very serious matter to make the committment and then break it because you found out something you couldn’t live with, right?

Your marriage will be valid since you are both non-Catholics. You must attend the Catholic Church if you are planning on entering into it. We, as fully received Catholics, may not participate in the Eucharist if we are not properly disposed but that doesn’t lesson our obligation to attend. In other words, we are obligated to attend whether or not we may receive (something you should learn in RCIA ) We are obligated to attend from the moment we realize that the Catholic Church is the true Church.

The devil is trying to place a stumbling block in your way to divert your path. That last thing he wants is to keep you from entering the Church. Don’t let him win! I know it’s a bummer not to be married in the Church you love but you will be married to the woman that God has called you to be married and it will be valid. Just think, you can have a really special first anniversary by having your marriage blessed in the Catholic Church. It’s not validating it. It’s valid. It’s just blessing this marriage.

 

[bear06]

Does this also mean that before RCIA is finished if I die I will be in danger of Hell??

Well, it would be hard for anyone to determine your heart and we’re all in danger of hell. Just because we’re in the Church doesn’t mean that our salvation isn’t something we can throw away. Based on what you’ve said, I’d say that most likely God will not throw you into hell if you should keel over today. You have every intention of following God’s plan for salvation. He’s not going to cast you to hell for ignorance.

You are baptized. I’m assuming you can probably still go to confession and receive absolution. I think that people who are baptized already and going through RCIA are supposed to go to confession at some point before receiving the rest of the Sacraments… Those who aren’t baptized don’t need to go because their sins will wiped clean at baptism. I’d just tell the pastor that you’ve been going. I’m sure he’d probably let you continue the practice but you’d have to ask him and I’m sure he’d give you permission.

 

[Renton405]

K. Well I go to RCIA on monday for a interview and they said it starts september. Some of the activities look pretty fun actually. I was so angry yesterday that I thought about just leaving the church , but maybe this happened because God is testing me(or Satan trying to get me to leave the church)idk, so I will stick with it…Im going to the other parish because Im too embarassed to go back to the parish I was going at

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

As a baptized Christian, yes, he could do exactly as you have outlined-- IF his pastor were to allow it. It seems he is not.

YES, this is exactly what should happen and he should be Confirmed also. But this is not what usually happens, because most pastors allow uninformed lay people to run the RCIA or they think the more people they have in RCIA the better.

 

[bear06]

K. Well I go to RCIA on monday for a interview and they said it starts september. Some of the activities look pretty fun actually. I was so angry yesterday that I thought about just leaving the church , but maybe this happened because God is testing me(or Satan trying to get me to leave the church)idk, so I will stick with it…Im going to the other parish because Im too embarassed to go back to the parish I was going at

There is no need to be embarrassed at all!!! You got some bad advice. This might in turn help your friends learn a little more about there Faith and keep others from making the same mistake. Don’t feel like you have to attend another Church. Again, there’s nothing to be embarrassed about!

 

[mtr01]

YES, this is exactly what should happen and he should be Confirmed also. But this is not what usually happens, because most pastors allow uninformed lay people to run the RCIA or they think the more people they have in RCIA the better.

I thought this was the case. Now, I understand the need to be informed and instructed about the faith before one decides to convert. However, in Renton’s case, he had already made the decision to join the Church, thought he did, and has been living as a Catholic for two years. I assume he made that choice because he believe the Catholic Church to be the one true Church, established by Christ, which cannot lead or be lead into error…and as such if there was some doctrine he did not understand, he would submit his will to the Church because it cannot teach error. As long as he believes the above, all he should need to do is make the profession of faith.

It seems like, unfortunately, his parish was trying to fit him into their mold of entering the Church, rather than taking his situation into consideration and tailoring a solution to fit his specific circumstances. I’m not so sure recourse to the bishop isn’t in order. Perhaps Renton could call the diocesan office and explain his situation there, and ask if he could just make a profession of faith and enter the Church.

 

[rwoehmke]

No this is our first marriage. We have both never been married or divorced before…I already know that the church dosen’t remarry divorced people. We’ve agreed to get married with her pastor and then convalidate a little after april comes…I refuse to get married by a judge because I don’t want our wedding to be just another secular marriage. Since the deacon never told me about RCIA and these documents when we first started the marriage counseling I am forcibly put in a position that I myself don’t wanna be in.

Is the marriage not a sacrament anymore?? is the effect of holy matrimony still in effect? or will this only happen after convalidation?

If you and your wife are both baptized by the trinitarian formula, and Lutherans are, then your marriage will be sacramental from the get-go. Two baptized persons (man and a woman obviously) enter a sacramental marriage with no need for a blessing or a witness from the Catholic Church. Catholics unless dispensed ahead of time by their Bishop must be married in the presence of a Catholic priest or deacon.

Since you are both going to be non-Catholics at the time of your wedding, you will not need convalidation or a special blessing to make it valid and sacramental at anytime in the future. You will probably learn more about this when they cover the sacrament of marriage in RCIA. Renton, as they say, “You are good to go.”

God bless both you and your future wife. I will be lurking in these forums waiting to hear how RCIA is going. If your wife would join you there, she would be under no obligation to change her religion and she would learn a lot about what you will be professing and believing as a convert to the Catholic Church.

 

[puzzleannie]

have read thru this thread twice and still do not understand the problem.

if poster was baptized Catholic he simply needs instruction and preparation for first communion and confirmation (and of course confession). It is strongly recommended that Catholics be confirmed before marriage, but it is not an absolute requirment. if there is not enough time to complete the preparation before the scheduled wedding date, the sacraments of initiation can be conferred afterwards, although a committed Catholic would probalby prefer to be able to receive communion at his wedding.

If he is not Catholic, there is no requirement whatever that he convert before the wedding, or at all. So whether or not he is in RCIA or completes RCIA before the wedding is a non-issue. If he does wish to convert, and has already been validly baptized, he needs the same catechesis and preparation for the same sacraments, but again, even if there is not enough time before the wedding, there is no need to delay it.

The only barrier I could see would be if he strongly wants to receive communion at the wedding, but there is no need to wait for Easter if he is already baptized, he can be received into the Church as soon as he and the pastor agree he is ready, and continue studying doctrinal issues afterward.

I think this is an awful lot of discussion about a problem that should not exist, but it is a textbook illustration of why there are rules and regs about RCIA and why someone interested in this process must sit down with the pastor and discuss them, and keep asking questions until he understands what is involved.

Repeat, there is no need to delay the wedding until Christian initiation is completed, and no requirement for the non-Catholic party to convert, either before or after the wedding, as long as the Catholic party obtains the required dispensations.

 

[bear06]

Repeat, there is no need to delay the wedding until Christian initiation is completed, and no requirement for the non-Catholic party to convert, either before or after the wedding, as long as the Catholic party obtains the required dispensations

.

Neither party has been properly educated nor received into the Church. This is the problem. You can’t be married in a Catholic Church if neither party had been received into the Church.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Don’t worry, Ike’s advice would be valid only if you were a baptized Catholic not marrying in the church, not a baptized non-Catholic marrying in a non-Catholic Church. As a baptized Lutheran, you can marry in a Lutheran or other Protestant church (or even other places, I’m not sure if JPs are accepted, I think they are but cannot say so authoritatively), go through RCIA as you apparently desire, and then have your valid marriage convalidated in the Catholic church once you have been received into the Catholic Church.

Sometimes our love might look tough–but the majority of the posts here, maybe every single one indeed–are truly rooted in love and caring.

His valid Lutheran Marriage does not need to be convalidated in the Catholic Church it would already be accepted as valid.