Church won't marry us

[YADA]

This is a most unfortunate circumstance for you, Renton. It is truly sad that your ‘catholic’ friends are so poorly catechized that they mislead you to such an extent.

Renton, please INVITE your catholic friends to join you in the RCIA this year. They need to apporach their faith as mature adults and learn what it is to be an active, informed, participating Catholic Christian!

One wonders why a plurality of catholics [your posts imply more than one] would be that uninformed about the faith.

Your complaint about the 'Church" not telling you what you needed to do seems reasonable upon its face. However, when someone wants to join something, they usually make contact and ask questions…in matters of faith and spirituality the average parish will let the new parishioner [catholic or non - catholic] initiate the discussions.

Catholics tend to be less ‘actively’ evangelical…we don’t send out the door to door missionaries, visiting ‘recruiters’.

Catholic parish bulletins, newspapers, radio and TV programs and various books all discuss conversion and initiation regularly. It seems hard to imagine that you [and or any of your catholic associates could stay clueless] and this has to be an ***anomally! ***

I hope and pray that this parish will see the harm done to you Renton and work diligently to see that it does not happen again. As I noted above, the first step might be to invite your friends to join you at RCIA…

I have worked with RCIA for over a decade…it won’t hurt them…

And I am curious Renton…you have said what they told you when you ‘joined’ the church…what do they say now about their lack of knowledge?

 

[Renton405]

.

Neither party has been properly educated nor received into the Church. This is the problem. You can’t be married in a Catholic Church if neither party had been received into the Church.

yea this is what my deacon told me on the phone. He said even though Ive been a practicing Catholic for about 3 years that I haven’t been officially recieved in the church. Ill ask if I can do just a profession of faith and a confirmation before the wedding but I doubt they will let me, its the Cathedral and there really by the book and tend not to make exceptions…

 

[richardwy]

When I went through RCIA, I bought a Catechism and with pencil in hand have read it.

Wonderful reading full of grace, truth, and accuracy.

I’m 50 though, and am of the opinion few people know what they’re talking about in proportion to those who do not regarding just about anything.

 

[Renton405]

And I am curious Renton…you have said what they told you when you ‘joined’ the church…what do they say now about their lack of knowledge?

well I don’t wanna berate them or anything. I was very angry at first, but when I talked to them they seemed to blame it on Vatican II…They said if a couple were getting married and the non-Catholic party wanted to join the Church, the couple made arrangements with the local priest.

I had found on the internet here:

*Before the RCIA was reestablished, the typical approach to adult Baptism was isolated from the parish community. Preparation often consisted of around six weeks of private instructions followed by Baptism on a Sunday afternoon, attended by a small cluster of relatives or friends.

Today, the RCIA process lasts a year or more and involves sponsors, catechists and, indeed, the whole parish. The Sacraments of Initiation—Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist—are celebrated within the con"text" of community at the Easter Vigil. This spirit of communal involvement is also reflected in other sacraments.*

 

[bear06]

I hardly think it’s Vatican II. It does sound like poor communication on all parts. The Church should have a blurb in the bulleting like “Would you like to join the Catholic Church? Here’s how” and it would seem that for most, this would have come up in discussions with a priest at least during confession. It’s kind of strange to me that it didn’t. Not really sure what’s up with your friends but obviously there was a huge lack of communication with them and their catechists.

 

[Renton405]

Yea, this has given a really bad impression on my fiancee and she won’t go to RCIA with me now. Her views of the church were neutral before but she is very angry at them now and wonders why I would even consider going back to them for RCIA.

 

[lizzielou]

Renton, you should work and pray to understand that the Church has not wronged you (or her) in any way at all. It is perfectly legitimate that the Church wants people to know what they are joining before people join it – isn’t it?

If there is anyone to blame here, it is your friends for offering you bad advice, and perhaps you should accept some ownership over this situation yourself, for not being a little bit more inquisitive about the proper way to join the Church. If you had just asked the priest, rather than your friends, you would have gotten the answer that in order to join the Church you have to go through RCIA, and that until then, you are most welcome to come to Mass – but you are not Catholic and shouldn’t be receiving the Eucharist and most importantly are not eligible to marry in the Church.

At any rate, just because you lacked the correct information does not make the Church bad or deceitful in any way. This is not something that the Church “did to you.” You should really take great care to explain this to your fiancee, because it is very important that she is understanding of your religious practices. I agree with others who have suggested that you encourage her to attend RCIA along with you, just so she can have a better understanding of the faith.

It would also probably be helpful for you to examine why you want to be Catholic and what about the Church you believe in, as well as acknowledge that there might be a lot about the Church that you don’t know yet.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I did regular Mass after confession. My Catholic friends said I didnt need to do first communion or confirmation because I was an adult,They already have my baptism certificate, but I was baptized in a non catholic church as an infant

It sounds as though you didn’t follow the standard practice for an adult joining the Catholic Church. An adult non-Catholic Christian who has been baptized is supposed to declare “I believe and profess all that the Catholic Church teaches to be revealed by God.” The priest then declares that person received into the Catholic Church, the person is Confirmed, and receives First Communion.

However, I know that a person who has been baptized in a non Catholic Church can be received into the Catholic Church outside of the Easter Vigil, and the amount of preparation given to them can be adjusted based on their level of understanding and previous education in the Faith.

Perhaps you could even ask the bishop about this, and explain your situation to him. Don’t lose hope, there is a solution to this problem. I’m sorry that you were misinformed when you first joined the Church.

 

[jrabs]

Yea, this has given a really bad impression on my fiancee and she won’t go to RCIA with me now. Her views of the church were neutral before but she is very angry at them now and wonders why I would even consider going back to them for RCIA.

I am curious as to why your fiancé harbors anger with the church? Your church did nothing wrong. It sounds like a convenient scapegoat because you said she was neutral before.

You both relied on info obtained from friend, no? Not the church.

Hang tight and press forward with your plans for RCIA. God bless in your marriage.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I second Jrabs on this. If you don’t nip this ‘anger at the church’ in the bud now, it will only continue to become a bigger hurdle for your fiancee to overcome and could negatively impact your marriage.

It might be wise to ask her why she is angry. Does she feel that you were misled? Is she angry on ‘your’ behalf, and if so, is it anger at her feeling you have been made to look foolish? Is she considering “what other people think” and reacting to her own perceptions?

Would she feel ‘better’ about a church that pretty much was ‘anything goes’? If that is the case, she might have trouble with what she would see as ‘too many rules’. And if she feels that way about the church, what then does she feel about ‘society’s’ rules? Is she the type to let her ‘feelings’ guide her judgment? Would she see any kind of ‘rule’ as impinging on ‘her rights’, anything from looking at speed limits as something that can be broken ‘if circumstances permit’?

If she is herself a fairly rules oriented person, then she will be more comfortable with a structured organization and more inclined to accept an ‘authority’. There is probably SOMETHING that she is fairly ‘structured’ on, though (it could be something like healthy eating, for example). If you can find common ground, like, Well, you know how important it is to eat healthfully, and if you DO eat something not so good for you, you are going to get consequences. . . then you might be able to present the church teaching as for the same purposes, the importance of spiritual health, and the consequences if the teachings are not followed causing spiritual illness.

Again, it is VITAL that she not be allowed to perceive this as being an ‘adversarial’ relationship, that she is not ‘competing’ with the Church for you, that if she has anger at ‘something’ then it needs to be properly directed and attended to.

 

[agapewolf]

Well my fiancee has prepared for almost a year for this date. We have all the suits, the cake, the reception, the Djs, and the invitations all sent out…theres no turning back now…

.

OK, I need to bring up a point that everyone seems to be ignoring.

No one is FORCING you to get married. Twice you have used that word that you are forced to do it a certain way, because the deacon didn’t tell you something. and then you mention that the cake is bought, the hall is reserved, the suits are rented, etc, etc, so there is no turning back.

I’m sorry, but that doesn’t matter. You are not married until you say your vows and consummate your marrige. You are free to say no until then. Our weddings especially in USA have become such outrageous ordeals needing such huge amounts of guarenteed deposits that people feel like they are forced to go through with it.

These circumstances are unfortunate, and yes, the deacon, or whoever, seems to have dropped the ball here…by not doing it sooner. But this is the very reason that people are supposed to do all this stuff before even setting a date.

Please do not put all of the blame on the church. Why do you think “some friends” telling you tidbits of information about how to join the church would be correct? Can you accept maybe a little bit of the responsiblitiy here that maybe you should have actually gone to the church itself to inquire about becoming Catholic?
One sentence “I’m not a Catholic and I want to be one”

This seems to be a pretty rotten spot you are in, and I’m sorry about that, but please understand, there is nothing wrong with people wanting to keep a Catholic church a Catholic church. In order for an ordained person in the church to marry you, one of you has to be a Catholic. How that can happen here is different, but please PLEASE be open to the possibility that maybe this is God protecting you…maybe you should wait to get married, maybe you need to go through the RCIA process and journey (which will be a rewarding experience) for better discernment for the marriage. Waiting another 1/2 year could mean a lifetime of blessings for your marriage.

 

[YADA]

i concur with the many posts that it is not the church’s fault that you are in this situation…

As noted, you recceived bad advice from nominally catechised friends…these friends did you no favor…You on the other hand also never inquired of the parish staff about your ‘personal’ case, nor did you pick up a book, parish bulletin, archdiocesan newspaper article and read about ‘joining’ the church…that is taking personal responsibility for you and your affairs…

You attended mass [and I assume it was each Sunday or you still have much to learn about our faith] for three years and never had a clue that that there was something amiss in the method by which you joined the church! That speaks volumes about how little you [as an adult] cared about learning the faith traditions to which you profess to desire to adhere…

Why do you want to be catholic? You are considering a marriage to a non-catholic. What will be the faith in which you raise your children? Was this discussed in your marriage preparation? What about the weekly obligation to participate in Mass? Is it your intent to fullfill that obligation? How could you and your fiance blame “the Church” for your lack of attention to detail?

Your posts suggest that you ‘registered’ in a parish. I must ask; have you actually actively participated in that parish for the last three years…attending Mass each Sunday and on the Holy Days of Obligation, volunteering for and attending parish functions [dinners, lecture series, small faith sharing groups, or even fund raising] providing parish support through a weekly - monthly contribution? I would think that if you had…it might have crossed your mind that you should have joined an RCIA…

Even if you did not think you needed RCIA, you could have joined into the sessions just to receive the instruction or catechesis about the Church. If you had done this then then you would have learned that this was actually necessary for you!

 

[bear06]

Yea, this has given a really bad impression on my fiancee and she won’t go to RCIA with me now. Her views of the church were neutral before but she is very angry at them now and wonders why I would even consider going back to them for RCIA.

Again, use the analogy of your marriage. Would she marry you without knowledge of your beliefs, morals, etc.? No. She got to know you first. In marriage we call this consent. You can’t enter into a marriage without valid consent. Lack of consent is actually grounds for an annullment. The Church doesn’t want you to make the committment to be Catholic without consent. T

The Church is not trying to be mean to you. They just don’t want you to enter into a lifelong committment with the Church without knowing her first. It’s not the Church’s fault that you went to your friends for advice on entering the Church and they gave you the wrong answer. If you had asked the Church, they would have given you a completely different answer.

 

[kage_ar]

Every time I have registered at a Parish, I’ve had to provide detailed information re dates and places for my:

Baptism
Confirmation
1st Communion
Marriage

This information has been required for me, my husband and our child too.

It is odd that a Parish would not have requested this information at registration

Anyway, agree with many others here - have a sit down meeting with the Pastor. Second, have a looooonnnnngggg talk with the fiancee - sounds like you are asking for a future of incompatability!

 

[Linnyo]

I, like Renton, have never been asked for anything when I have moved to a new parish. Neither has my husband. At our current parish, the priest hasn’t even noted our names or addresses. He just said ‘welcome’ I thought he would want to know who we are at least. If we speak to him on Sunday, I doubt he would even remember that we are from his parish. Our neighbours, who have been going for several years longer than us, were asked if they were part of the parish a few weeks ago. The husband has been cutting the grass for the last few years!

Every time I have registered at a Parish, I’ve had to provide detailed information re dates and places for my:

Baptism
Confirmation
1st Communion
Marriage

This information has been required for me, my husband and our child too.

It is odd that a Parish would not have requested this information at registration

Anyway, agree with many others here - have a sit down meeting with the Pastor. Second, have a looooonnnnngggg talk with the fiancee - sounds like you are asking for a future of incompatability!

 

[Renton405]

I, like Renton, have never been asked for anything when I have moved to a new parish. Neither has my husband. At our current parish, the priest hasn’t even noted our names or addresses. He just said ‘welcome’ I thought he would want to know who we are at least. If we speak to him on Sunday, I doubt he would even remember that we are from his parish. Our neighbours, who have been going for several years longer than us, were asked if they were part of the parish a few weeks ago. The husband has been cutting the grass for the last few years!

Thats the way it was when I went to this church. It is the Cathedral so there are a lot of people, everyone does their own thing and then they go. I didn’t get involved really in any groups, I just went to Mass with a few friends and then left. The only time I read something at the parish was when it was about a party or something about political issues or fundraiser walks…

I am at a new parish now though where there is less people and its more informative. I just had the RCIA interview today and am already in the program. They talked about activities, sponsers, groups, an overnight field trip. It was actually very pleasant and the woman was extremely nice. She said confirmation and Eucharist will be done in April, and then she talked about how some people finish faster then others and you can go on your own pace. Its every thursday at around 7 pm and goes for around 2 hours. They give you 2 books, one they mentioned was Catholicism for Dummies…

 

[Sheeniac]

I, like Renton, have never been asked for anything when I have moved to a new parish. Neither has my husband. At our current parish, the priest hasn’t even noted our names or addresses. He just said ‘welcome’ I thought he would want to know who we are at least. If we speak to him on Sunday, I doubt he would even remember that we are from his parish. Our neighbours, who have been going for several years longer than us, were asked if they were part of the parish a few weeks ago. The husband has been cutting the grass for the last few years!

Did you register? Moving into a parish and attending it doesn’t mean you are registered. If they have envelopes for donations, and you don’t have one, then you probably aren’t registered.

There is a pastoral associate at my parish who handles the registration. It wouldn’t necessarily be his responsibility to register you, so you may wish to delve deeper.

A few weeks ago, we had a note about this in our bulletin (asking people if they had registered with the parish). I assume that it’s not an unusual situation for people to think they are a member of a parish when they aren’t.

 

[Linnyo]

True enough - i don’t think it is unusual - no I didn’t specifically ask to register. I just told the priest that I would be coming to his parish. I suppose I expected him to tell me what I should do but he didn’t and I have to admit I was surprised.

Did you register? Moving into a parish and attending it doesn’t mean you are registered. If they have envelopes for donations, and you don’t have one, then you probably aren’t registered.

There is a pastoral associate at my parish who handles the registration. It wouldn’t necessarily be his responsibility to register you, so you may wish to delve deeper.

A few weeks ago, we had a note about this in our bulletin (asking people if they had registered with the parish). I assume that it’s not an unusual situation for people to think they are a member of a parish when they aren’t.

 

[Brendan]

Yea, this has given a really bad impression on my fiancee and she won’t go to RCIA with me now. Her views of the church were neutral before but she is very angry at them now and wonders why I would even consider going back to them for RCIA.

But you not being Catholic does not prevent a ‘Church’ wedding. If you have proof of Baptism; request a Dispensation of Form for Disparity of Cult. You (or specifically, your fiance) can get that from the Bishop’s Secretary.

 

[StephenB]

Really good news here…it won’t take until April 2008 to be received in the church (and if your parish and their RCIA program is planning to wait until April, run quick - it ain’t a Catholic Church - you’ll be right where you started.)

The Vigil will be in the earliest possible date of the year - March 22, 2008.

You received a lot of REALLY GOOD and Correct answers here.
Some answers have probably led to some confusion - because not all the thread was read. Boils down to this: You wanted to play by the club rules, but you aren’t in the club. If I dress up like John Wilkes Booth, that deosn’t mean I killed Abraham Lincoln. and all the other analogies you might want to use about behavior - being a Catholic isn’t like common law marriage -just acting like it don’t make it so.

I really hope that you do get a strong RCIA program, and learn to take personal responsibility for your faith - it will be that much more rewading for you. Being grounded in knowledge and truth is so much better than second guesses from friends.

(Despite the TIC - tongue in check - comments, I really do hope the best for you…and the Moderator ought to think about closing this thread before there are too many more confusing answers given. )