Churches rejecting science altogether

[PerfectTiming]

I’ve been a member of the Christian community on another site for ages now and some of their opinions on science have been increasingly worrying me. They seem to believe science to be this vicious evil and that all science is lies from the Devil, etc. This seems to come from a variety of churches, since there’s no predominant denomination among the community. Without any bias, and with no offence intended to those who do this, I have noticed many of them are home-schooled (how relevant this is is obviously debatable).

Maybe this is just because I’m a scientist by nature but surely teaching children this level of complete enmity and disregard for science is unhealthy and detrimental to them. I’ve heard people talk about how scientists are stupid and it’s all ridiculous. I’m all for teaching children a healthy skepticism and there are aspects of mainstream scientific opinion I am very skeptical about myself but there are also incredibly important teachings that science gives us.

To me it seems wrong for parents or pastors or whoever to be teaching children this but I’m curious to see what other people think.

 

[edwest2]

It’s necessary to be specific about this. It needs to be pointed out that science, especially in the last 40 years, has gone from something that is simply taught to an Orthodoxy that people, including here, feel compelled to enforce. For some, science has reduced human beings to biological robots or a series of chemical reactions triggered by outside stimuli. The “we are just animals” mantra raises appropriate concern. Anti-theist groups make it a point to tell us: “Stop worrying [about God] and just enjoy life.” Or that human beings don’t require God to be ethical, moral or happy.

I think most Christians who like science have no trouble with becoming electrical engineers or mechanical engineers or doctors. The point is, science has decided that the human being can be reduced to a form of life that it cannot be compared to. Animals do not have human cognition but animal behavior is being used to justify some human behaviors today.

Peace,
Ed

 

[ronnie_bonigli]

I’ve been a member of the Christian community on another site for ages now and some of their opinions on science have been increasingly worrying me. They seem to believe science to be this vicious evil and that all science is lies from the Devil, etc. This seems to come from a variety of churches, since there’s no predominant denomination among the community. Without any bias, and with no offence intended to those who do this, I have noticed many of them are home-schooled (how relevant this is is obviously debatable).

Maybe this is just because I’m a scientist by nature but surely teaching children this level of complete enmity and disregard for science is unhealthy and detrimental to them. I’ve heard people talk about how scientists are stupid and it’s all ridiculous. I’m all for teaching children a healthy skepticism and there are aspects of mainstream scientific opinion I am very skeptical about myself but there are also incredibly important teachings that science gives us.

To me it seems wrong for parents or pastors or whoever to be teaching children this but I’m curious to see what other people think.

The overwelming majority of Christians who are hostile to science are fundamentalist Christians of Protestant denominations, most Catholics do fall fall in the “anti-science” camp. The motivation of these fundamentalists is to be able to read all of Genesis literally, with a 6000 year old earth and all the rest that comes with a literal reading.

 

[PerfectTiming]

It’s necessary to be specific about this. It needs to be pointed out that science, especially in the last 40 years, has gone from something that is simply taught to an Orthodoxy that people, including here, feel compelled to enforce. For some, science has reduced human beings to biological robots or a series of chemical reactions triggered by outside stimuli. The “we are just animals” mantra raises appropriate concern. Anti-theist groups make it a point to tell us: “Stop worrying [about God] and just enjoy life.” Or that human beings don’t require God to be ethical, moral or happy.

I think most Christians who like science have no trouble with becoming electrical engineers or mechanical engineers or doctors. The point is, science has decided that the human being can be reduced to a form of life that it cannot be compared to. Animals do not have human cognition but animal behavior is being used to justify some human behaviors today.

Peace,
Ed

I understand what you mean and the reductionism of human behaviour is one of the areas where I am very skeptical of mainstream scientific attitudes - I am a psychology student so I am well aware of the flaws in this attitude. But those issues are very much related to behavioural science. For things like medical issues, understanding human bodily functioning, insight into the natural world, etc. science is very valuable and it seems ridiculous to ignore that.

 

[grannymh]

I’ve been a member of the Christian community on another site for ages now and some of their opinions on science have been increasingly worrying me. They seem to believe science to be this vicious evil and that all science is lies from the Devil, etc. This seems to come from a variety of churches, since there’s no predominant denomination among the community. Without any bias, and with no offence intended to those who do this, I have noticed many of them are home-schooled (how relevant this is is obviously debatable).

Maybe this is just because I’m a scientist by nature but surely teaching children this level of complete enmity and disregard for science is unhealthy and detrimental to them. I’ve heard people talk about how scientists are stupid and it’s all ridiculous. I’m all for teaching children a healthy skepticism and there are aspects of mainstream scientific opinion I am very skeptical about myself but there are also incredibly important teachings that science gives us.

To me it seems wrong for parents or pastors or whoever to be teaching children this but I’m curious to see what other people think.

Science is a very broad topic. It is important to know how it works, e.g., its methods and how conclusions are reached. We live in a scientific world; therefore it is important to thoroughly understand our Catholic Faith especially in the 21st century.

Blessings,
granny

Human life is sacred.

 

[grannymh]

I understand what you mean and the reductionism of human behaviour is one of the areas where I am very skeptical of mainstream scientific attitudes - I am a psychology student so I am well aware of the flaws in this attitude. But those issues are very much related to behavioural science. For things like medical issues, understanding human bodily functioning, insight into the natural world, etc. science is very valuable and it seems ridiculous to ignore that.

Psychology and neuroscience are areas where one’s spiritual faculties can be easily downplayed by claiming that the souce of intellect and will emerges from our functioning body. I am aware that people like Patrick Haggard are looking for the source of human volition and thus are concentrating on the material brain as the location. Obviously, p(name removed by moderator)ointing activity in the brain/anatomy does not lead to recognizing our spiritual souls.

Blessings,
granny

Human life is sacred.

 

[TimothyH]

The word Luddite comes to mind.

-Tim-

 

[twinc]

I gather you are confusing true science with pseudo/phoney science,which we all must oppose and reject and especially scientists - I would suggest you read "True Science agrees with The Bible"by Malcolm Bowden,his website is well worth a visit - see for yourself the hoaxes,cons,frauds,fakes and conspiracy in the good name of true science - twinc

 

[itsjustdave1988]

… I’m a scientist by nature

Born a scientist? Wow! [just kidding]

…surely teaching children this level of complete enmity and disregard for science is unhealthy and detrimental to them.

Amen!

All truth comes from God. Science is a systematice method that seeks to know the Truth “from the things He has made.” (Rom 1:20). Being critical of “positivism” is one thing, rejecting all of science is ridiculous.

 

[Luke_K]

I’ve been a member of the Christian community on another site for ages now and some of their opinions on science have been increasingly worrying me. They seem to believe science to be this vicious evil and that all science is lies from the Devil, etc. This seems to come from a variety of churches, since there’s no predominant denomination among the community. Without any bias, and with no offence intended to those who do this, I have noticed many of them are home-schooled (how relevant this is is obviously debatable).

Maybe this is just because I’m a scientist by nature but surely teaching children this level of complete enmity and disregard for science is unhealthy and detrimental to them. I’ve heard people talk about how scientists are stupid and it’s all ridiculous. I’m all for teaching children a healthy skepticism and there are aspects of mainstream scientific opinion I am very skeptical about myself but there are also incredibly important teachings that science gives us.

To me it seems wrong for parents or pastors or whoever to be teaching children this but I’m curious to see what other people think.

What if science (or in other words objective observation) supported something they believed in? I’m guessing they’d love science then. Nobody has any problem with science until it starts conflicting with their previously-held beliefs. For example, no one was up in arms when the laws of electromagnetism were discovered, because no one knew anything about electromagnetism before that. The people who wrote the books in the Bible didn’t know a darn thing about electrons and atoms. But when the laws of classical gravity and planetary motion were discovered, and they conflicted certain peoples’ beliefs that the earth was stationary, then it caused some controversy.

There is no reason to be against science in principle. A total disregard for science just reveals that the person is unwilling to do their homework and examine the evidence. Instead of studying the opposing argument, some people prefer to be lazy and just call the other side “evil” and “a temptation away from God”.

 

[Flybot]

Hi

I think the attitude stems also from that atheist have made the argument that either you are for science, reason and logic or you are a theist. I have often read atheist stating this as such. I retort with that as a Catholic, I have to agree with any science based on proper scientific method.
But I live in protestant country and my fellow Christians instead of retorting ‘where do atheist get the conclusion from science that there is no God’, they argue that science is evil and goes against the bible and their faith. I have often read on the Internet how atheist state you have to choose. And have often responded to Christians asking for help as they believe in science , but do not know how to reconcile it with their faith and they don’t wish to choose. The fostering of anti-science sentiment in Christians is a big bonus to the credibility of atheists.
It seems greater explanation of the ineptitude of science to disprove God . The linking of the bible to science . Explaining where scientific theory falls short and what science can be accepted and what rejected based on sound argument and a greater effort to inform Christians of the evidence for God in science would alleviate this anger and anxiety. A lot of Christian posts that I have read, show a lack of knowledge on these subjects and I doubt they would read a book on the subject. I don’t know how they could be reached with this message and get better armoured with truth.

I am not an expert on science , I have only read a few books on the subject of faith and science.

Monsignor Lemaître is the man. :extrahappy:He managed to blow up the biggest atheist scientific hope ever. Atheist will always fail to disprove God using science , because there is a God. Therefore I fear nothing from science.

 

[PerfectTiming]

I gather you are confusing true science with pseudo/phoney science,which we all must oppose and reject and especially scientists - I would suggest you read "True Science agrees with The Bible"by Malcolm Bowden,his website is well worth a visit - see for yourself the hoaxes,cons,frauds,fakes and conspiracy in the good name of true science - twinc

Of course pseudo-science should be rejected but I am talking about people who do reject true science entirely.

 

[twinc]

Of course pseudo-science should be rejected but I am talking about people who do reject true science entirely.

any such have probably been put off by pseudo science - so lets tread carefully and prayerfully - twinc

 

[Di_bear]

I’ve found that Christians who deny science are ignorant of science. I also find that atheists who support science for their cause are ignorant of science.

Science does not deny God. The Bible does not deny science, or even the more politically controversial topic of evolution (well, and Darwin’s theory of evolution is only one theory under the broad science of evolution, which truly does exist and has been proven many times over in birds, viruses, and other species with short lifespans).

We fear that which we do not understand.

I personally love my religion, and I love science. I am educated in both (including self-education) and write about both. I find no conflict.

 

[Trishie]

For instance…papal view of evolution
**Pope Benedict: Creation vs. evolution clash an ‘absurdity’ **

msnbc.msn.com/id/19956961/

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — Pope Benedict XVI said the debate raging in some countries — particularly the United States and his native Germany — between creationism and evolution was an “absurdity,” saying that evolution can coexist with faith.
The pontiff, speaking as he was concluding his holiday in northern Italy, also said that while there is much scientific proof to support evolution, the theory could not exclude a role by God.
“They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other,” the pope said. “This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”
He said evolution did not answer all the questions: “Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, ‘Where does everything come from?’”

…etc

Pope John Paul 2 on evolution

[Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (October 22, 1996) ](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (October 22, 1996))

"It is indeed remarkable that this theory has progressively taken root in the minds of researchers following a series of discoveries made in different spheres of knowledge," the pope said in his message Wednesday. "The convergence, neither sought nor provoked, of results of studies undertaken independently from each other constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory."

…etc

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm

 

[donsnow]

I’ve been a member of the Christian community on another site for ages now and some of their opinions on science have been increasingly worrying me. They seem to believe science to be this vicious evil and that all science is lies from the Devil, etc. This seems to come from a variety of churches, since there’s no predominant denomination among the community. Without any bias, and with no offence intended to those who do this, I have noticed many of them are home-schooled (how relevant this is is obviously debatable).

Maybe this is just because I’m a scientist by nature but surely teaching children this level of complete enmity and disregard for science is unhealthy and detrimental to them. I’ve heard people talk about how scientists are stupid and it’s all ridiculous. I’m all for teaching children a healthy skepticism and there are aspects of mainstream scientific opinion I am very skeptical about myself but there are also incredibly important teachings that science gives us.

To me it seems wrong for parents or pastors or whoever to be teaching children this but I’m curious to see what other people think.

Well, Perfect Timing,

These folks don’t know the teaching of their Holy Bible. I’m sorry I forget which epistle, but Christians are enjoined to respect science.
I remember this, because I was so surprised to see the word ‘science’ in Holy scripture.

God loves you,
Don

 

[edwest2]

For instance…papal view of evolution
**Pope Benedict: Creation vs. evolution clash an ‘absurdity’ **

msnbc.msn.com/id/19956961/

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — Pope Benedict XVI said the debate raging in some countries — particularly the United States and his native Germany — between creationism and evolution was an “absurdity,” saying that evolution can coexist with faith.
The pontiff, speaking as he was concluding his holiday in northern Italy, also said that while there is much scientific proof to support evolution, the theory could not exclude a role by God.
“They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other,” the pope said. “This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”
He said evolution did not answer all the questions: “Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, ‘Where does everything come from?’”

…etc

Pope John Paul 2 on evolution

[Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (October 22, 1996) ](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (October 22, 1996))

"It is indeed remarkable that this theory has progressively taken root in the minds of researchers following a series of discoveries made in different spheres of knowledge," the pope said in his message Wednesday. "The convergence, neither sought nor provoked, of results of studies undertaken independently from each other constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory."

…etc

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm

Fundamentalist Christians realize that the Biology textbook as currently taught excludes God. All the processes are presented as having happened on their own. The Church has a far more nuanced view of the issue than presented here. Catholics cannot accept the view that it all happened by itself.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Sparticus]

It is not that science is failing man. But do you feel man is failing science? With all the junk science, lies and deception within the so called science community. Can you see how this happens? I call it true science fiction.

 

[buffalo]

Faulty human reasoning of scientific findings is the issue.

Science by its own definition has a limited say about the universe and is provisional. Much of today’s science pronouncements are philosophical. This is the area where there is contention, rightly so.

 

[PerfectTiming]

Fundamentalist Christians realize that the Biology textbook as currently taught excludes God. All the processes are presented as having happened on their own. The Church has a far more nuanced view of the issue than presented here. Catholics cannot accept the view that it all happened by itself.

Peace,
Ed

But there is more to science than biology. There’s more to biology than the aspects of evolution, big bang theory, etc. There are small aspects of scientific consensus that are in conflict with Christianity but there is so much more to science, things that are of value to us as human beings and as Christians.

Sparticus:

It is not that science is failing man. But do you feel man is failing science? With all the junk science, lies and deception within the so called science community. Can you see how this happens? I call it true science fiction.

I would agree that man is failing science. Junk science is becoming so much a part of our lives. You see it in advertising, companies throwing in scientific words to entice those who are ignorant of their meaning. And even in the news, when scientific news is discussed it is often dumbed down so that people completely misunderstand it or sometimes it is even misrepresented altogether.

Di_bear:

I personally love my religion, and I love science. I am educated in both (including self-education) and write about both. I find no conflict.

I also have yet to find conflict. Nothing I study in science makes me doubt my faith.