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Vanny
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Thanks Jharek I had been reading up on The Orthodox Church so I was aware that infants received communion, ect( Timothy Ware’s the Orthodox Church).
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Vanny
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Wow I can’t see the WELS ever allowing a woman to preside over the sacrament I guess I’ll have to research that.-Just can’t see it. I wasYes, Confessional Lutherans ordain through the laying on of hands. Even the liberal Lutherans do (When one’s theology is unorthodox, employing traditional outward trappings can be an effective means of masking the rot within.). Usually the District President/Bishop leads the actual rite, with pastors from the surrounding circuit or district joining in for the actual laying on of hands. Because Lutherans understand each pastor to be a true “bishop” for his congregation(s), there are typically more than just three bishops present for an ordination.
Lutherans understand the power to ordain to the pastoral office to come from the church, in general, and to be exercised by the congregation, locally, and to be safeguarded by those who are already ordained, specifically. The actual Rite of Ordination and the Laying on of Hands doesn’t confer any magical powers or any “greater grace” on the man becoming pastor, but rather confirms his call to be divine and accepts his authority to administer Word and Sacrament to, for, and on behalf of the church. It’s proper teaching and proper administration of the Sacraments that Confessional Lutherans use to measure whether one was ordained in Apostolic Succession, not necessarily who laid hands on whom (though it’s certainly a helpful tool in determining whether one likely comes from sound doctrine).
Video of an LCMS ordination: youtube.com/watch?v=m7Mc2tvRSKo
I should note that I cannot vouch for how WELS ordains its pastors nowadays or whether all of its churches maintain the laying on of hands. WELS has an understanding of the Office of Holy Ministry that is decidedly outside of Lutheran orthodoxy. WELS erroneously believes that Christ did not actually establish a pastoral office; merely that He gave the church a general sort of permission to create offices as it requires them. This is the single-most divisive issue that separates WELS from LCMS. Under WELS’ weak theology on the issue, there’s really little to keep, say, some guy who starts his own “church house” or even a woman from playing pastor, other than social scolding. This is the source of the saying: “WELS will have a female pastor before it ever allows female suffrage at voters’ assemblies.” In fact, on at least two occasions, WELS has permitted females to preside over the Sacrament when no men were present!It is a most un-Lutheran practice, stemming from most un-Lutheran belief. Until WELS confesses its error and admits that Christ did specifically set up a pastoral office, there cannot be full unity between LCMS and WELS.
raised LCMS my husband was Baptist, I had been attending an ELCA but left that when they slid way to far to the left. We live in a rural area so no LCMS I wanted to remain Lutheran so we attend the nearby WELS, only other Lutheran churches are ELCA. My husband has become a liturgical sacramental Christian from being raised in a nondenominational and Baptist milieu. Long story for another thread.-also been researching Orthodoxy and of course the RCC.
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Faithdancer
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Interesting that you bring up Baptists, Vanny. There are a few (but growing?) number of Baptist churches who are moving toward a more liturgical worship style. Here are a couple of them. The third one refers to Holy Communion as a sacrament–most atypical!
lakesidechurchrmt.org/worship/liturgical-explanations/
thefoothills.us/a-liturgical-baptist-church-really/
rrcb.org/about-us/who-we-are/
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GKC
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I only checked the 3rd link. That place is overrun with atypicals. Most fascinating.
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steido01
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Sounds crazy, right? But that’s the logical end to the WELS understanding of ministry. It relies solely on the “headship” argument: “We believe that women may participate in offices and activities of the public ministry except where that work involves authority over men” Well, what about the places where women function as head because of a man’s dereliction of duty? Or where a woman rightfully has a place of headship? Can she then be the pastor?
Some WELS folks were taking it so far that women were playing pastor at women’s gatherings and attempting to administer the Sacrament. The Synod even issued a response:“WELS has had only two instances of women communing women, and our Conference of Presidents has since issued an indefinite moratorium on such practice to keep from offending our brothers until the matter is mutually resolved.” – note WELS deliberately did not condemn the practice itself, merely lamented the offense.
If you’re interested in some heavy reading on the topic, I recommend this.
I am glad that you and your husband have found a church that rightly distinguishes Law and Gospel and provides the Sacraments. (Even if it is a bit wishy-washy on the ministry!
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Faithdancer
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I have to respectfully disagree with Apostolic Curae.
I’m curious, though, Lenten–by ex-Anglican, do you mean ex-TEC? I know that many members of The Episcopal Church refer to themselves as Anglican. Which of course they are free to do.
I’m asking because whenever someone says they left TEC, no explanation is necessary.
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commenter
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What, you imply there are ****other ****churches in existence?
I had heard rumors other churches existed, but I had always considered them to be apocryphal.
Are the legends of dragons true, as well?
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