Churchgoers (and Catholics) More Likely to Back Torture?

[jpm1977]

This article HERE details how a recent poll found that Americans who attend religious services are more likely to say torture is sometimes justified. What I noticed as a line at the end that says only 2 in 10 non-Hispanic Catholics said torture is never justified. That saddens me, because I think it is clear in the Catechism and the Vatican’s statements on the matter that torture is never justified. Further, the “ends justifies the means” mentality is counter to every strain of Catholic intellectual and moral tradition I’ve ever read about.

Obviously, there’s dissent from Church teaching on issues beyond abortion. I wonder if this stems from poor teaching of the catechism in Catholic schools or faith formation classes or what?

I think most Catholic theologians and doctors of the Church from the beginning to now would be horrified to hear a Catholic argue that torture is OK as long as it gets results, or in certain other situations based on utilitarian reasoning. It is clearly a moral wrong in all circumstances.

Obviously, polls can be skewed in all different ways, but nevertheless this is puzzling to me.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I saw this in our local newspaper blogs/forums.
My guess is that most folks who are church goers are patriotic & more conservative & do not believe current interrogation techniques used by the US constitutes torture.(I don’t either.)

 

[JanetF]

I would think the answer given by the person partaking in the poll would depend on the definition of torture.

Is waterboarding torture?
Is failing to treat a prisoner’s combat wounds torture.
Was having to listen to Toyko Rose during imprisonment on the pacific islands during WWII torture?

So many different things to consider…

 

[Exalt]

I saw this in our local newspaper blogs/forums.
My guess is that most folks who are church goers are patriotic & more conservative & do not believe current interrogation techniques used by the US constitutes torture.(I don’t either.)

So you think having a sock stuffed in your mouth, your head clamped down, and water being forced into your throat until you start to drawn is not torture? How about being thrown in a tight box and then having your worst fear being dropped in there with you in the dark, ala room 101 in Orwell’s 1984? How about face slappings? Forced stress positions? Being chained to the wall or ceiling? Being forced to listen to loud noise for days in a row, preventing you from sleeping?

That’s not torture, according to you?

 

[danielle2459]

I saw this in our local newspaper blogs/forums.
My guess is that most folks who are church goers are patriotic & more conservative & do not believe current interrogation techniques used by the US constitutes torture.(I don’t either.)

I do not believe this has anything to with churchgoers/Catholics etc… Plainly any type of abuse against another human is WRONG, DEAD wrong. Torture is torture, no matter what type it is or how many times it occurs.
If that is not so, let us strap one of your loved ones down and do some of this dirt that has been done to others and see how fast you start screaming - stop the TORTURE!
It is what it is - clearly.
There is no degree of… is this torture? Well, yeah your darn right it is and those scandalous liars should be prosecuted to the fullest. We need to learn a lesson here for the future that these types and forms of abusing power - is not Justifiable and will NOT be tolerated. Period.

 

[Dale_M]

I do not believe this has anything to with churchgoers/Catholics etc… .

I suspect it has less to do with religion than with political leanings. Conservatives being more likely to support the use of torture and also being more likely to be regular church-goers.

 

[danielle2459]

I suspect it has less to do with religion than with political leanings. Conservatives being more likely to support the use of torture and also being more likely to be regular church-goers.

In my case - liberal - leftist - political activist - Catholic - attend weekly mass - democrat
& PROUD of it.

 

[Listener]

I agree that torture is morally wrong. It even says so in the Catholic Catechism. It seems that we have a double standard. Pro-choice people are called sinners, even if they would never have an abortion or participate in one. Catholic people who think that torture is okay are simply people with a different opinion, and no one calls them sinners for having this opinion.

Although abortion is a great moral evil, it seems that it is the only thing that the Church ever preaches about. Maybe they should preach against beating your wife, endangering people on the freeway, and maybe they should even preach that torture is always wrong.

What justification do we have for starting wars if we are just as corrupt as our enemies?

 

[danielle2459]

I agree that torture is morally wrong. It even says so in the Catholic Catechism. It seems that we have a double standard. Pro-choice people are called sinners, even if they would never have an abortion or participate in one. Catholic people who think that torture is okay are simply people with a different opinion, and no one calls them sinners for having this opinion.

Although abortion is a great moral evil, it seems that it is the only thing that the Church ever preaches about. Maybe they should preach against beating your wife, endangering people on the freeway, and maybe they should even preach that torture is always wrong.

What justification do we have for starting wars if we are just as corrupt as our enemies?

Nicely said… I would like to see feedback, if any?

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

Nicely said… I would like to see feedback, if any?

There are numerous places in Allentown for a person to get an abortion, where I can go to show my objection by praying the rosary. Where is the nearest torture mill? Are we up to 50 million tortures yet since 1973?

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

In my case - liberal - leftist - political activist - Catholic - attend weekly mass - democrat
& PROUD of it.

In my case, I strive not to be left, right, or centrist, but just stick to Catholicism, which includes belief in the Living Magisterium. Although I’m registered as a Republican, the teaching of the Church comes before party platform. Although I’m not ashamed to be a Catholic, I’d be afraid to be proud of it.

 

[Lujack]

I saw this in our local newspaper blogs/forums.
My guess is that most folks who are church goers are patriotic & more conservative & do not believe current interrogation techniques used by the US constitutes torture.(I don’t either.)

Why is supporting waterboarding patriotic? You can make a strong case that vigorously opposing it is just as patriotic.

Stephen Decatur does not define patriotism.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

So you think having a sock stuffed in your mouth, your head clamped down, and water being forced into your throat until you start to drawn is not torture? How about being thrown in a tight box and then having your worst fear being dropped in there with you in the dark, ala room 101 in Orwell’s 1984? How about face slappings? Forced stress positions? Being chained to the wall or ceiling? Being forced to listen to loud noise for days in a row, preventing you from sleeping?

That’s not torture, according to you?

Compared to having your head chopped off on camera? Are you serious?
I’ll take being in a box with a bug, thanks.

 

[TracyJ]

Compared to having your head chopped off on camera? Are you serious?
I’ll take being in a box with a bug, thanks.

I consider waterboarding torture. I don’t see how choosing torture over execution
in any way validates your position.
Torture destroys the soul of the one who does the torture.
I cannot approve of such activities.
Jesus was tortured by the Roman soldiers. I have a problem with that.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I consider waterboarding torture. I don’t see how choosing torture over execution
in any way validates your position.
Torture destroys the soul of the one who does the torture.
I cannot approve of such activities.
Jesus was tortured by the Roman soldiers. I have a problem with that.

I don’t consider it torture, nor do some who have experienced it & if it could have saved the folks who burned to death in the Twin Towers-or any other innocent lives in the future- I’d say go for it.
I have a problem with real torture.

 

[TracyJ]

I don’t consider it torture, nor do some who have experienced it & if it could have saved the folks who burned to death in the Twin Towers-or any other innocent lives in the future- I’d say go for it.
I have a problem with real torture.

If our government had paid attention there’s ample evidence that we could have prevented
the 911 tragedies.

There’s little or no evidence that any innocent lives are saved by torture.
I’m distressed that a fellow human was waterboarded over a hundred times in one month by my side.
I had nothing to do with that, I did not vote for the party in power when that went on and I would very much want an investigation to see if the responsible people should be prosecuted.
I disagree with Obama that we should just “look forward” where this issue is concerned.
We didn’t let the Nazis off during WW2…we can’t let those responsible for torture
off today.
I take it that you agree with the President on this issue?

 

[Cracker_Mom]

If our government had paid attention there’s ample evidence that we could have prevented
the 911 tragedies.

There’s little or no evidence that any innocent lives are saved by torture.
I’m distressed that a fellow human was waterboarded over a hundred times in one month by my side.
I had nothing to do with that, I did not vote for the party in power when that went on and I would very much want an investigation to see if the responsible people should be prosecuted.
I disagree with Obama that we should just “look forward” where this issue is concerned.
We didn’t let the Nazis off during WW2…we can’t let those responsible for torture
off today.
I take it that you agree with the President on this issue?

Which President? I can’t think of much of anything that I agree with Mr. Obama on. And I would never compare America to Nazi Germany.

 

[ahollars]

This is so typical…

1. How far would you go to save your own children?
2. Are the weapons we use on the battlefield itself torture?
3. If someone has surrendered, and then continues to fight, are they considered a combatant again?
4. If you would do anything to save your own, why do you condemn someone who acts on your behalf?
5. Is information a weapon? Are our troops supposed to be reading Miranda rights?
6. Do the Geneva Conventions apply to men who’ve taken no oath for their actions, whose only purpose is our total destruction, and admittedly will use deceit at every turn to accomplish their goals, even by pretending peace and truce for their own gains?
7. Our SOCOM men are trained to endure these tactics. Are we torturing them as well?
8. Is it torture if they make a complete medical recovery, and the only things that are damaged are their feelings or egos? Are we just having fun or breaking spirits? If they cooperate, they are rewarded. Is it still torture if they know this and still refuse to submit?

I despise people who love to second guess the actions of our military, as if they actually know anything they are talking about. How many more times must our military be vindicated by history for people to see…

To be is to know… :knight2:

Final Note: Nothing I have said can be compared to moral relativism regarding our enemy.

 

[TracyJ]

This is so typical…

1. How far would you go to save your own children?
2. Are the weapons we use on the battlefield itself torture?
3. If someone has surrendered, and then continues to fight, are they considered a combatant again?
4. If you would do anything to save your own, why do you condemn someone who acts on your behalf?
5. Is information a weapon? Are our troops supposed to be reading Miranda rights?
6. Do the Geneva Conventions apply to men who’ve taken no oath for their actions, whose only purpose is our total destruction, and admittedly will use deceit at every turn to accomplish their goals, even by pretending peace and truce for their own gains?
7. Our SOCOM men are trained to endure these tactics. Are we torturing them as well?
8. Is it torture if they make a complete medical recovery, and the only things that are damaged are their feelings or egos? Are we just having fun or breaking spirits? If they cooperate, they are rewarded. Is it still torture if they know this and still refuse to submit?

I despise people who love to second guess the actions of our military, as if they actually know anything they are talking about. How many more times must our military be vindicated by history for people to see…

To be is to know… :knight2:

Final Note: Nothing I have said can be compared to moral relativism regarding our enemy.

As citizens we are required to second guess our government and our military.
It’s my opinion that those who have condoned torture are those who are too impressed
by authority figures, remember the Milgram experiment?
In this case, the Catholic Church is right…torture is always wrong.

 

[TracyJ]

Which President? I can’t think of much of anything that I agree with Mr. Obama on. And I would never compare America to Nazi Germany.

Actually, Obama doesn’t want to appoint an investigating committee to see if we are
guilty of war crimes.

As for never comparing America to Nazi Germany, I would never be so blind to what my government is doing that such a thing could ever happen here without me protesting it.