H
HarmonyN20
Guest
Out of curiosity, what do you consider ‘real’ torture?
- Status
R
RobbyS
Guest
I think you are over-identifiying. A hard football practice in a Texas sun is torture, if one is not conditioned to it.
R
RobbyS
Guest
I think you are missing the point. It is not what you or I “feel” is torture but what the court decide is torture. Legally, it has to include extreme pain or physical abuse, but whether such abuse constitutes torture must be determined by looking at the case law.
M
mary1173
Guest
I don’t believe torture is justified all of the time, in some cases yes. Punishment for crimes committed jail/imprisonment, lethal injections for war crimes, and the such.
I don’t know that the statement of more churchgoers being in favour of torture is all that accurate…Quite the opposite is true in A LOT of the cases from what I’ve seen.
If you are referring to the military’s use of force against known terrorists, then that’s something different. The military is using the tools they need to to prevent harm from coming to many, even if it means waterboarding the few.
waterboarding is the act of pouring water down the throat of the terrorist to simulate drowning. The terrorist is never ACTUALLY being drowwned in the act. It is a useful psychological battle tool that provides our men in the military with answers to important questions and vitalinformation to prevent the loss of human lives. [Even innocent Muslim lives]
I don’t know that the statement of more churchgoers being in favour of torture is all that accurate…Quite the opposite is true in A LOT of the cases from what I’ve seen.
If you are referring to the military’s use of force against known terrorists, then that’s something different. The military is using the tools they need to to prevent harm from coming to many, even if it means waterboarding the few.
waterboarding is the act of pouring water down the throat of the terrorist to simulate drowning. The terrorist is never ACTUALLY being drowwned in the act. It is a useful psychological battle tool that provides our men in the military with answers to important questions and vitalinformation to prevent the loss of human lives. [Even innocent Muslim lives]
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
What the terrorists do to us when we are captured.Or what they do to captured innocent folks that they believe are supporting us.What Saddam did to his enemies…etc., etc.
The main difference is that few lived to tell the tale.
J
JulianN
Guest
I think the point of the study had very little to do with how we define torture – from the responses already, it’s clear that people disagree about what constitutes that.
The conclusions of the survey were particularly chilling precisely because torture was not defined. Respondents were free to define it however they chose – they were essentially answering the question: Whatever you believe torture to be, is it ever justified?
I was stunned to see that church-goers were more likely to think torture (however one defines it) is ever acceptable.
And on a different note, this issue becomes a slippery slope. Is torture only acceptable when it is used against a non-citizen? Is it acceptable for the police to use torture in order to get “necessary” information about a crime? What would that do to the due process system? Just some points to consider.
The conclusions of the survey were particularly chilling precisely because torture was not defined. Respondents were free to define it however they chose – they were essentially answering the question: Whatever you believe torture to be, is it ever justified?
I was stunned to see that church-goers were more likely to think torture (however one defines it) is ever acceptable.
And on a different note, this issue becomes a slippery slope. Is torture only acceptable when it is used against a non-citizen? Is it acceptable for the police to use torture in order to get “necessary” information about a crime? What would that do to the due process system? Just some points to consider.
M
mary1173
Guest
I agree with you on this one. Torture is what the enemy does for ‘‘fun’’ to derive pleasure from someone else’s pain. I’ve never heard American soldiers talk with glee or happiness that they were forced to use waterboarding on a known suspect to get information from them to protect others; as I have seen smiles and cheers from terrorists who kill our soldiers and parade in the streets with guns blazing.
Waterboarding is not fun,our soldiers have a job to do,and they need our support,not doubts of ‘‘if’’ they are doing the right things or not
I take serious issue with those who think that the war is a cake walk and that the government is using undue force. The troops are defending our freedoms and LIVES. We owe it to them when they return home to provide for them the best we have to offer.
God Bless America!
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
I would have a hard time sending soldiers overseas with one hand tied behind their back,figuratively speaking, & our intelligence secrets shared with the enemy.I agree with you on this one. Torture is what the enemy does for ‘‘fun’’ to derive pleasure from someone else’s pain. I’ve never heard American soldiers talk with glee or happiness that they were forced to use waterboarding on a known suspect to get information from them to protect others; as I have seen smiles and cheers from terrorists who kill our soldiers and parade in the streets with guns blazing.
Waterboarding is not fun,our soldiers have a job to do,and they need our support,not doubts of ‘‘if’’ they are doing the right things or not
I take serious issue with those who think that the war is a cake walk and that the government is using undue force. The troops are defending our freedoms and LIVES. We owe it to them when they return home to provide for them the best we have to offer.
God Bless America!
The other side is not like us.They don’t fight fair.They don’t respect life.
We aren’t perfect but this is a wonderful place to live.Others have given their lives to make that possible.It’s easy to forget that freedom doesn’t come for free.
P
Polaris
Guest
Really? They dont enjoy it? Here is one from a similiar torture time period.I agree with you on this one. Torture is what the enemy does for ‘‘fun’’ to derive pleasure from someone else’s pain. I’ve never heard American soldiers talk with glee or happiness that they were forced to use waterboarding on a known suspect to get information from them to protect others; as I have seen smiles and cheers from terrorists who kill our soldiers and parade in the streets with guns blazing.
Waterboarding is not fun,our soldiers have a job to do,and they need our support,not doubts of ‘‘if’’ they are doing the right things or not
I take serious issue with those who think that the war is a cake walk and that the government is using undue force. The troops are defending our freedoms and LIVES. We owe it to them when they return home to provide for them the best we have to offer.
God Bless America!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AbuGhraibScandalGraner55.jpg
He is a soldier and he seems to be enjoying it. There goes your theory of the purity of American soldiers.
A
ahollars
Guest
You didn’t answer any of my questions. Or are you even going to?
As for Milgram, none of this is conflicting with my conscience, because I know how to distinguish innocent life from unrepentant grave danger. Hence, I am not following orders that I know are wrong, and I am not impressed by any authority figure. That has nothing to do with whether or not I agree or disagree.
You also ignore that fact that there are over 90 Priests who are military chaplains and are commissioned officers in the armed forces serving throughout the world. None of them have condemned our actions as immoral. Or are they part of the grand conspiracy too? There are two type of church leaders in America. Those who would have gone to jail for helping illegal immigrants, and those who will go to jail for having pro-life hospitals after FOCA is passed. I think I know which ones to listen to.
I remember liberals flipping when they found out Gitmo men were sleeping on mats less than an inch thick, forgetting it’s the same type issued to troops. That’s different, right? Or how about the claim of flushing a Quran down the toilet, only for Newsweek to admit a week later that they made up the whole thing, after men in Iraq had been killed in retribution.
Sleep deprevation, food restriction, isolation, and sense deprevation are not torture. The prisoners’ health care is better than some of us. Just ask Michael Moore. Waterboarding, slapping, handcuffing to chairs, and other creative annoyances, have been reserved for the men who call themselves leaders of Al Qaida. Whether or not we enjoy it is not the point. Do you think a soldier doesn’t enjoy hitting his target instead of missing? We are not supposed to have regrets of our successes, primarily if they are preventing future attacks.
Yes, the Catholic Church is always right. Torture is wrong. What we do is not torture. What happened to John McCain is torture. What the USA does is no worse than a frat initiation. The fact that you won’t acknowledge the difference, or can’t tell, either way, it doesn’t mean you get to call it immoral. If people want to know what they military and intelligence really does, then go find a recruiter and enlist. It’s my opinion that the average person who has something to say about how wrong we are in the way we do our job has no clue what kind of weight the responsibility is.
There… I said it. Nothing personal. Fire away.
T
TracyJ
Guest
Would you be willing to be waterboarded for a frat initiation?You didn’t answer any of my questions. Or are you even going to?
As for Milgram, none of this is conflicting with my conscience, because I know how to distinguish innocent life from unrepentant grave danger. Hence, I am not following orders that I know are wrong, and I am not impressed by any authority figure. That has nothing to do with whether or not I agree or disagree.
You also ignore that fact that there are over 90 Priests who are military chaplains and are commissioned officers in the armed forces serving throughout the world. None of them have condemned our actions as immoral. Or are they part of the grand conspiracy too? There are two type of church leaders in America. Those who would have gone to jail for helping illegal immigrants, and those who will go to jail for having pro-life hospitals after FOCA is passed. I think I know which ones to listen to.
I remember liberals flipping when they found out Gitmo men were sleeping on mats less than an inch thick, forgetting it’s the same type issued to troops. That’s different, right? Or how about the claim of flushing a Quran down the toilet, only for Newsweek to admit a week later that they made up the whole thing, after men in Iraq had been killed in retribution.
Sleep deprevation, food restriction, isolation, and sense deprevation are not torture. The prisoners’ health care is better than some of us. Just ask Michael Moore. Waterboarding, slapping, handcuffing to chairs, and other creative annoyances, have been reserved for the men who call themselves leaders of Al Qaida. Whether or not we enjoy it is not the point. Do you think a soldier doesn’t enjoy hitting his target instead of missing? We are not supposed to have regrets of our successes, primarily if they are preventing future attacks.
Yes, the Catholic Church is always right. Torture is wrong. What we do is not torture. What happened to John McCain is torture. What the USA does is no worse than a frat initiation. The fact that you won’t acknowledge the difference, or can’t tell, either way, it doesn’t mean you get to call it immoral. If people want to know what they military and intelligence really does, then go find a recruiter and enlist. It’s my opinion that the average person who has something to say about how wrong we are in the way we do our job has no clue what kind of weight the responsibility is.
There… I said it. Nothing personal. Fire away.
I wouldn’t.
I disagree with our president on this issue, I believe that we should have an investigation as to whether or not war crimes were committed. If torture did not occur then there’s nothing to worry about. If it did, those responsible should be punished.
No, I’m not going to answer your questions.
A
ahollars
Guest
Here’s your answer…
Source: Charges Unlikely for Lawyers Over Interrogation Memos
I rest my case.
God bless our troops… especially our snipers!!!
E
elts1956
Guest
Okay, I guess this one time, I will have to compliment the USCCB document of 2008 regarding voting.
- What faith teaches about the dignity of the human person and about the sacredness of every human life helps us see more clearly the same truths that also come to us through the gift of human reason. At the center of these truths is respect for the dignity of every person. This is the core of Catholic moral and social teaching. Because we are people of both faith and reason, it is appropriate nd necessary for us to bring this essential truth about human life and dignity to the public square. We are called to practice Christ’s commandment to “love one another” (Jn 13:34). We are also called to promote the well-being of all, to share our blessings with those most in need, to defend marriage, and to protect the lives and dignity of all, especially the weak, the vulnerable, the voiceless. In his first encyclical letter, Deus Caritas Est, Pope Benedict XVI explained that “charity must animate the entire lives of the lay faithful and therefore also their political activity, lived as ‘social charity’” (no. 29).
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
Good article on this subject on the EPPC website. Check it out.
- Status