Church's tradition on evolution theory

[abcdefg]

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Lateran Council IV and Vatican Council I assure us that all things, visible and invisible, were created in the six days of Creation week, and there is nothing being created by God at the present time.

Lateran VI says: Firmly we believe and we confess simply that the true God is one alone, eternal, immense, and unchangeable, incomprehensible, omnipotent and ineffable, Father and Son and Holy Spirit: indeed three Persons but one essence, substance, or nature entirely simple. The Father from no one, the Son from the Father only, and the Holy Spirit equally from both; without beginning, always, and without end; the Father generating, the Son being born, and the Holy Spirit proceeding; consubstantial and coequal and omnipotent and coeternal; one beginning of all, creator of all visible and invisible things, of the spiritual and of the corporal; who by His own omnipotent power at once from the beginning of time created each creature from nothing, spiritual, and corporal, namely, angelic and mundane, and finally the human, constituted as it were, alike of the spirit and the body. For the devil and other demons were created by God good in nature, but they themselves through themselves have become wicked. But man sinned at the suggestion of the devil.

Vatican Council I says: If anyone does not confess that the world and all things which are contained in it, both spiritual and material, as regards their whole substance, have been produced by God from nothing, or, shall have said that God created not by a volition free of all necessity, but as necessarily as He necessarily loves Himself, or, shall have denied that the world was created to the glory of God: let him be anathema.

In 1441, the Council of Florence stated in its decrees: “God…is the creator of all things visible and invisible, who, when he wished, out of his goodness created all creatures, spiritual as well as corporal; good, indeed…since they were from nothing…”

In 1860, the Council of Cologne condemned the idea of human evolution in very straightforward words: "Our first parents were formed immediately by God. Therefore we declare that…those who…assert…man…emerged from spontaneous continuous change of imperfect nature to the more perfect, is clearly opposed to Sacred Scripture and to the Faith.”

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catholicintl.com/scienceissues/dialogue-evolution1.htm

 

[PhilVaz]

Answered by me here

Nice try though. Here is a little bit of that.

The Church and Creation

Neither the words “six days” nor the “creation week” appear in these Council documents. On the contrary, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is quite explicit:

1. God himself created the visible world in all its richness, diversity, and order. Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine “work,” concluded by the “rest” of the seventh day. On the subject of creation, the sacred text teaches the truths revealed by God for our salvation, permitting us to “recognize the inner nature, the value, and the ordering of the whole of creation to the praise of God.” [Vatican II LG 36] (see also paragraphs 339, 342, 345 which refer to the “six days”)

And since the Catechism endorses the findings of modern science (paragraphs 159, 283-284) and even quotes the Fourth Lateran Council and the First Vatican Council on creation (see paragraphs 293 and 327) we can be quite sure that a “symbolical” (as opposed to a literal) understanding of the “six days” of “creation week” in Genesis 1 is an acceptable and orthodox Catholic understanding of the text. Let’s examine some of these statements:

Neither the Fourth Lateran Council, nor the First Vatican Council, nor the Council of Florence says when God did the creating, how long that creating took, nor by what processes God did the creating. Nothing is mentioned about taking the “six days” of “creation week” literally. Reading the short excerpts from these Councils that Sungenis provides above, they do not imply a “young earth,” and that is not Catholic dogma. The question of the age of the earth is of course a matter for science to discover and does not fall under the “faith” or “morals” that is the domain of the Catholic magisterium. What we do find above are the following points:

– God is the Creator of all visible and invisible things, of the spiritual and the corporal (material)
– By God’s omnipotent power He created all the creatures from nothing, the angelic, mundane, and human, both spirit and body
– The world and all spiritual and material things concerning their whole substance were produced by God from nothing
– God created all things because He loves Himself and us
– The world was created to the glory of God

The main point here is that God is ultimately the Creator of all things. Even six-day creationists do not believe God created by direct-special creation ALL the species that exist on earth today. There are estimated to be around 1.5 to 2 million currently known species, another 10 million that haven’t been discovered yet. And six-day creationists accept microevolution – which they define as variation within the Genesis “kinds” – as set up, overseen, directed, and “willed” by God. In fact, they believe that in less than 6000 years since the worldwide Flood of Noah, the “two” of each “kind” of animal brought aboard Noah’s Ark, by normal reproduction and microevolution processes, produced the geographical distribution of the hundreds of thousands or millions of species that exist today, i.e. without God’s help of direct-special creation, since all “creation” supposedly ended on “day six” around 10,000-15,000 years ago. That affirms a much more rapid and efficient evolution than even staunch “Darwinists” like Richard Dawkins or Michael Ruse would accept! In short, young-earth creationists believe all this evolution occurred in just a couple thousand years since the Flood.

Theistic evolutionists also believe God set up the natural laws and processes that allowed this earth to be populated by all the species of plants, animals, and man we have today. They accept macroevolution set up, overseen, directed and “willed” by God and that fits better the fossil record, the biogeographical evidence, the immensity and diversity of existing species, along with the “deep time” of our planet (c. 4.5 billion years old) and universe (c. 15 billion years old).

Phil P

 

[abcdefg]

does catechism tell Catholics must accept ET? catechism leaves the question open and tradition solved it.

When the current catechism came out? when the council were held?
is something new called tradition or something old?

 

[PhilVaz]

abc << does catechism tell Catholics must accept ET? >>

No, it only says they should accept the age of the earth, evolution and modern science (Catechism 159, 283-284), not they must. You don’t have to accept the earth is a sphere, is ancient, or macroevolution. You can believe, as a Catholic, that the earth is held up by a series of turtles ("its turtles all the way down").

abc << catechism leaves the question open and tradition solved it. >>

Yep sure does. God is the Creator, that position isn’t changed whether you are a six-day creationist, a Hollow earthist, Turtles all the way down kind of believer, or theistic evolutionist.

Now stop these insane creation-evolution threads, unless you are going to quote Ken Miller, Keith Miller, or Darrel Falk, instead of Sungenis on the issue.

Phil P

 

[abcdefg]

PhilVaz:

No, it only says they should accept the age of the earth, evolution and modern science (Catechism 159, 283-284), not they must. You don’t have to accept the earth is a sphere, is ancient, or macroevolution. You can believe, as a Catholic, that the earth is held up by a series of turtles ("its turtles all the way down").

Church never allowed that turtle interpretation. You insult not only me but also the entire Catholic Church tradition. shame on you!
Job 26:7 He stretched out the north over the empty space, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

 

[PhilVaz]

abc << Church never allowed that turtle interpretation. You insult not only me but also the entire Catholic Church tradition. shame on you! >>

I see you don’t give up. Your original post was about Sungenis and his “six days” of “creation week” supposedly being found in Lateran IV, Florence, or Vatican Council I. I have shown those things are wrong and that the Catechism says the “six days” are symbolical not literal.

What I also said, is that you are allowed to believe in a flat earth, a geocentric universe, an earth supported by Turtles all the way down, an earth that is Hollow, any of these ideas are acceptable as long as God is the Creator. Same goes for evolution.

John Paul II accepted evolution, Cardinal Ratzinger / Benedict XVI accepts evolution. I don’t need anyone else on my side thanks.

I don’t insult, I am trying to follow your logic. Turtles all the way down is an acceptable view for a Catholic, just as acceptable as a flat earth, young earth, geocentric universe, all ideas abandoned by science centuries ago.

Some interpret that Job passage also the passage in Isaiah about the “circle of the earth” in terms of modern science, but it is also a plausible biblical interpretation that the earth is indeed flat.

Ultimately I leave science to the scientists, and theology to the Church, and the Popes agree with me. That’s why the Pontifical Academy of Sciences was set up.

Phil P

 

[abcdefg]

PhilVaz:

abc << Church never allowed that turtle interpretation. You insult not only me but also the entire Catholic Church tradition. shame on you! >>

I see you don’t give up. Your original post was about Sungenis and his “six days” of “creation week” supposedly being found in Lateran IV, Florence, or Vatican Council I. I have shown those things are wrong and that the Catechism says the “six days” are symbolical not literal.

What I also said, is that you are allowed to believe in a flat earth, a geocentric universe, an earth supported by Turtles all the way down, an earth that is Hollow, any of these ideas are acceptable as long as God is the Creator. Same goes for evolution.

John Paul II accepted evolution, Cardinal Ratzinger / Benedict XVI accepts evolution. I don’t need anyone else on my side thanks.

I don’t insult, I am trying to follow your logic. Turtles all the way down is an acceptable view for a Catholic, just as acceptable as a flat earth, young earth, geocentric universe, all ideas abandoned by science centuries ago.

Some interpret that Job passage also the passage in Isaiah about the “circle of the earth” in terms of modern science, but it is also a plausible biblical interpretation that the earth is indeed flat.

Ultimately I leave science to the scientists, and theology to the Church, and the Popes agree with me. That’s why the Pontifical Academy of Sciences was set up.

Phil P

All you want is my stopping post so you can spreading your agenda. you’re wrong.
Where in the Catechism says it’s wrong? it’s symbolic doesn’t mean it can’t be literal. However when something is literal it can’t be symbolic.
Church always teaches earth isn’t directly supported by anything. and you still keep saying the contrary. as I’ve shown you it’s there in the Bible.
JPII and B16 never say they accept evolution. they just say it’s ok for others to accept.
about earth is hollow or flat, there’s no theology background, one can believe whatever he wants without affecting his religious faith.
young earth, geocentric universe are never abandoned. you don’t agree doesn’t mean the fact isn’t so.

 

[Michael_Francis]

The Catholic Church does not prescribe what one must believe concerning evolution so long as God is the creator. That is as far as the church goes in this matter and on that note I am closing this contentious thread.

Personally, I believe that we should all evolve…into more loving and compassionate followers of Our Lord Jesus Christ.