Church's view on homosexuality?

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May I know the Church’s position regarding homosexuality? Does Christianity prohibit homosexuals from being homosexuals? what does the bible teach about homosexuality?

any links about the issue will do. Thanks:)
 
This is what the Church teaches:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

As you can see, having homosexual feelings is not itself a sin, but acting on this inclination would be. We are all called to chastity, regardless of our inclinations as the only appropriate place for sex is within marriage.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357
 
Yep, that’s pretty much it. Cut and dried.

Now watch this turn into a huge thread with arguments over whether or not the Church should accept homosexuality and/or Jesus never taught against homosexuality, etc. etc. 🍿
 
Also observe why threads on this issue tend to fall apart.
This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.
The inclination has yet to be defined. Is it concrete temptations toward specific acts with particular persons, or is it a only a vague sense of wanting to be with someone else? Is it something else?

Also observe that “objectively disordered” is a phrase which does not occur anywhere else in the CCC and which is never explicitly defined in any of the official documents where it is applied to the “homosexual condition.”
Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.
This is a tautology since anything unjust should be avoided. This statement therefore excludes nothing.
Homosexual persons are called to chastity.
Chastity is compatible with any state of life, so this statement is hardly informative. It also seems a tad disingenuous since the “call” to chastity seems more like a command.
By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
It is not known whether Christian perfection is compatible with the “homosexual condition.” In recent years, it seems, the official mind of the Church has been drifting toward the position that the two are incompatible.

I am not criticizing the teaching of the Church: it is good and correct so far as it goes. But I don’t think it has helped very much because it is still remarkably obscure. It is for that reason, I would say, that the threads here about homosexuality tend to break down.
 
I think the reason these threads break down is because many gay people experience treatment from Catholics and other Christians that is anything but “respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” You hear the phrase “hate the sin, not the sinner” over and over, but I can tell you that in reality I’ve come in contact with very few people who are able to handle that distinction adroitly.

Also, think about how homosexual sin is treated in comparison to other sins, such as adultery and divorce. Do you ever hear the same kind of language used to describe divorced people that you do about homosexuals? Are they compared with pedophiles and people who sleep with animals? Of course not-but homosexuals are frequently lumped in with those sins as if it was all the same. Do you hear calls for divorced people to be kept away from children because their sin will cause children to want to be divorced too? Of course not-but gay people hear this all the time.

If Catholics really want gay people to live lives in accordance with the teachings of the Church, then thinking about the language used when talking about gay people is a good first step. Provide an environment were gay people receive that respect, compassion and sensitivity-and who knows? You might help convince a gay person to choose to live the difficult teaching of lifelong celibacy because they will know that they have people there who care about them and support them in that choice.

I was lucky, I had family and clergy who helped me. Not every gay person has that luxury and they might just be looking to YOU to extend that compassion. Perhaps that single guy or girl at the “coffee and” after Mass is a gay person struggling with their choices. How do you think that person would feel hearing someone go on a rant about “those gay people who want to get married-next thing you know they’ll want to marry their dogs!” Or, “did you hear? The new music teacher is a GAY!!! We’ve got to get him/her fired because we don’t want our children exposed to that!!!” (FTR-I’ve heard both of those things said at parish events-so don’t think it doesn’t happen)

I truly believe that most people have no idea how what they say casually affects others. My goal in posting here was to try and make people more aware of that so that other gay people can find a home in the Church.
 
I have this classmate of mine whose mother is having a difficult time accepting him for being a gay, just because of this reason: In the beginning, God created only man and woman. He didn’t created a gay nor a lesbian.

well, does the Church have a position for the argument? Did God really created only man and woman?
 
Yes, God created men and women, but gays and lesbians are men and women!

Above all the Catholic Church teaches us that all human beings deserved compassion and respect, regardless of their circumstances. Some people have a great deal of difficulty remembering this.

No doubt your classmate’s mother will come to terms with this.I imagine not many parents would be delighted to hear that a son or daughter is gay, but most love their children above all else and will find a way to accept their child.
 
Yes, God created men and women, but gays and lesbians are men and women!

Above all the Catholic Church teaches us that all human beings deserved compassion and respect, regardless of their circumstances. Some people have a great deal of difficulty remembering this.

No doubt your classmate’s mother will come to terms with this.I imagine not many parents would be delighted to hear that a son or daughter is gay, but most love their children above all else and will find a way to accept their child.
Above all the Catholic Church teaches us that all human beings deserved compassion and respect, regardless of their circumstances. Some people have a great deal of difficulty remembering this.

thanks for sharing.it is great and useful for me

http://www.photosnag.com/img/4673/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gif
 
I think the reason these threads break down is because many gay people experience treatment from Catholics and other Christians that is anything but “respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” You hear the phrase “hate the sin, not the sinner” over and over, but I can tell you that in reality I’ve come in contact with very few people who are able to handle that distinction adroitly.

Also, think about how homosexual sin is treated in comparison to other sins, such as adultery and divorce. Do you ever hear the same kind of language used to describe divorced people that you do about homosexuals? Are they compared with pedophiles and people who sleep with animals? Of course not-but homosexuals are frequently lumped in with those sins as if it was all the same. Do you hear calls for divorced people to be kept away from children because their sin will cause children to want to be divorced too? Of course not-but gay people hear this all the time.

If Catholics really want gay people to live lives in accordance with the teachings of the Church, then thinking about the language used when talking about gay people is a good first step. Provide an environment were gay people receive that respect, compassion and sensitivity-and who knows? You might help convince a gay person to choose to live the difficult teaching of lifelong celibacy because they will know that they have people there who care about them and support them in that choice.

I was lucky, I had family and clergy who helped me. Not every gay person has that luxury and they might just be looking to YOU to extend that compassion. Perhaps that single guy or girl at the “coffee and” after Mass is a gay person struggling with their choices. How do you think that person would feel hearing someone go on a rant about “those gay people who want to get married-next thing you know they’ll want to marry their dogs!” Or, “did you hear? The new music teacher is a GAY!!! We’ve got to get him/her fired because we don’t want our children exposed to that!!!” (FTR-I’ve heard both of those things said at parish events-so don’t think it doesn’t happen)

I truly believe that most people have no idea how what they say casually affects others. My goal in posting here was to try and make people more aware of that so that other gay people can find a home in the Church.
Very. Well. Put. This is exactly what I feel and what I’ve experienced; it may be nowhere as extreme as the actively discriminatory experiences of twenty years ago which someone else described on this board, but the kind of passive discrimination that some Catholics are guilty of (even on this forum, sad to say) is at best an irritant and at worst painful; it has contributed to some of my own disappointment with the Catholic Church. Some things I’ve overheard during the parish hall social hour after Mass in the church I regularly attend, as well as some (thankfully removed) posts on this forum have left me wondering why the yell I stay with a Church which may have made a well-put pronouncement on homosexuality, but which hasn’t officially started rooting out those little weeds of less-than-charitable words that are marring the Garden that is the Church. I’ve even been accused on this forum of “being confused about being male or female” because I’ve admitted to being bi-celibate (bisexual but celibate on both counts). I assure you, I am anything but confused over being male or female, and I get a clear reminder that I’m female every twenty eight to thirty days ( :: Laughs:: )
 
Very. Well. Put. This is exactly what I feel and what I’ve experienced; it may be nowhere as extreme as the actively discriminatory experiences of twenty years ago which someone else described on this board, but the kind of passive discrimination that some Catholics are guilty of (even on this forum, sad to say) is at best an irritant and at worst painful; it has contributed to some of my own disappointment with the Catholic Church. Some things I’ve overheard during the parish hall social hour after Mass in the church I regularly attend, as well as some (thankfully removed) posts on this forum have left me wondering why the yell I stay with a Church which may have made a well-put pronouncement on homosexuality, but which hasn’t officially started rooting out those little weeds of less-than-charitable words that are marring the Garden that is the Church. I’ve even been accused on this forum of “being confused about being male or female” because I’ve admitted to being bi-celibate (bisexual but celibate on both counts). I assure you, I am anything but confused over being male or female, and I get a clear reminder that I’m female every twenty eight to thirty days ( :: Laughs:: )
I have more than a few friends who scratch their heads over my choice to return to the Church and to abide by Her rules. The idea that I’m choosing to stay in a religion that demands that I be alone for the rest of my days is completely mind-boggling to them to start with, but then when they read and hear the things that Catholics say about gay people they’re about ready to force me into therapy for masochism!

I can’t explain to them why I stay, but I have to believe that God has a reason for not letting me leave.
 
Very. Well. Put. This is exactly what I feel and what I’ve experienced; it may be nowhere as extreme as the actively discriminatory experiences of twenty years ago which someone else described on this board, but the kind of passive discrimination that some Catholics are guilty of (even on this forum, sad to say) is at best an irritant and at worst painful; it has contributed to some of my own disappointment with the Catholic Church. Some things I’ve overheard during the parish hall social hour after Mass in the church I regularly attend, as well as some (thankfully removed) posts on this forum have left me wondering why the yell I stay with a Church which may have made a well-put pronouncement on homosexuality, but which hasn’t officially started rooting out those little weeds of less-than-charitable words that are marring the Garden that is the Church. I’ve even been accused on this forum of “being confused about being male or female” because I’ve admitted to being bi-celibate (bisexual but celibate on both counts). I assure you, I am anything but confused over being male or female, and I get a clear reminder that I’m female every twenty eight to thirty days ( :: Laughs:: )
As someone who has same-sex attraction, I know perfectly what you mean when you talk about passive discrimination. I’m a student at a small Catholic college. When others suspect that I have SSA, they try to keep their distance from me.

No one is perfect. If everyone was perfect, people would be kind to those who have homosexual tendencies (or SSA). I just need to forgive others for their lack of charity.
 
As someone who has same-sex attraction, I know perfectly what you mean when you talk about passive discrimination. I’m a student at a small Catholic college. When others suspect that I have SSA, they try to keep their distance from me.
No one is perfect. If everyone was perfect, people would be kind to those who have homosexual tendencies (or SSA). I just need to forgive others for their lack of charity.
I can relate to that. I’ve had people slide WAY further down the pew when they see me come in with my chinos, oxford shirt, loafers and blazer…the pink scarf I usually wear to Mass with that outfit doesn’t seem to alleviate their fears that they’ll catch “the gay” if they sit too close to the lesbian. Doesn’t matter that I’m clearly there alone, or that they have no idea about my sex life…they’re still not getting too close. Not to mention what happens when I show up to a volunteer event wearing jeans, a T-shirt and my Birkenstock sandals! (hate to break this to the folks, but Birks are worn by people other than lesbians)
Some of the folks stop talking for a minute, then try to continue working with me without looking me in the eye.

To be fair, not everyone acts this way. I’ve met some wonderful people volunteering with pro-life groups who have been very sweet to me. Sadly, it seems that we remember the people that hurt us more quickly.
 
chrysostim83–

I don’t think your post is reasonable.

The basic meaning of “homosexual inclination” is easy to intuit: an inclination to experiencing sexual attraction towards members of the same sex. Now, obviously, no one is claiming that we can perfectly describe this situation in all of its complexity and tie it up in a neat little box, and the Catechism isn’t stupid enough to try. Obviously, words like “inclination” and “sexual attraction” describe very complex realities and have undergone a number of extensions of their analogical meaning.

But we can still talk meaningfully about homosexual inclinations. I doubt you can provide for me, within the body of Church documents or without, a perfectly clear and comprehensive definition of words like “God,” “spirituality,” or “grace.” But we still talk meaningfully–very meaningfully–about those things; we can still pin down their basic definitions and intuit their broader meanings. The term “homosexual inclination” is no different in this respect; we understand its basic meaning and can talk about the reality it describes. There is nothing unreasonable about the Catechism’s statement here.

The term “objectively disordered” may not be defined specifically in connection with homosexuality in any Church documents, but if it is defined somewhere not specifically in connection with homosexuality but just in general, that definition still applies. What’s more, the Catechism doesn’t have to define every single term it uses to speak meaningfully, whether the term is used once or a thousand times.

“Objectively disordered” is not an obfuscating or impossible to understand term. “Objectively”–in its object, in the central reality of the thing itself. “Disordered”–not properly ordered, out of accord with the eternal law or with God’s intention. I agree that there is some level of ambiguity in the word “disordered”–some assume that it means medically or psychologically disordered, when it makes much more sense for it to mean spiritually disordered. But a word is not meaningless just because it is not perfectly precise–the Catechism says something clear and meaningful here.

Certainly, everything unjust should be avoided, and the Catechism has already said that. But since unjust things are not avoided an alarming portion of the time when it comes to gay men and women, surely it’s reasonable for the Church to specifically point out and emphasize that it’s prohibition against injustice applies to gay issues?

What’s more, the quote doesn’t just say to avoid unjust descriminations towards gay men and lesbians, but to avoid “every sign” of it. That’s a stronger statement: don’t just avoid unjust discrimination, but avoid any situation that might engender unjust discrimination and any perception of unjust discrimination in this particular case. That is a meaningful statement.

Certainly everyone is called to chastity, and the Catechism has already said that, but once again: isn’t it good for the Church to reiterate specifically that gay men and lesbians are called to chastity (and more than capable of attaining it), since that fact is missed an alarming portion of the time?

As for the call seeming more like a command: certainly, living chastely is not only a calling from God but also a moral imperative. Is it also a command? It is certainly a command from God. Is it also a command from the Church? Probably. This part of the Catechism doesn’t really address these questions; it just says that it is a call.

But the call to chastity that gay men and lesbians have could very well be a moral imperative and a command too, without being any less of a call. The point is that God personally invites gay men and lesbians to chastity, and gives them the grace to live in that virtue. Doesn’t he do that for everyone? Yes, but see two paragraphs above.

Is Christian perfection compatible with an inclination to experiencing sexual attractions towards members of the same sex?

Well, is any objectively disordered inclination compatible with true Christian perfection? Probably not, no; that’s a contradiction in terms, isn’t it? But is an objectively disordered inclination that one did not choose and probably is not capable of shedding compatible with a great life of holiness as far as the life of subjective holiness goes? Definitely. Is one who has such an inclination and does not shed it before his death capable of being saved? Of course!

My overall point is this: Church teaching on homosexuality is not absolutely all-encompassing and precise. Of course not; it’s a very complex issue, one that has required more focus this century than in any other, and one that receives some of its data from psychology (which is not the Church’s domain). But the Church does say a great deal on this subject, and what it does say is crystal clear and very pastoral.
 
I have more than a few friends who scratch their heads over my choice to return to the Church and to abide by Her rules. The idea that I’m choosing to stay in a religion that demands that I be alone for the rest of my days is completely mind-boggling to them to start with, but then when they read and hear the things that Catholics say about gay people they’re about ready to force me into therapy for masochism!

I can’t explain to them why I stay, but I have to believe that God has a reason for not letting me leave.
Oh, I have no problem with keeping chaste (well, I do have to keep at it, which can be a little hard when I spot a gal who makes my jaw drop), but I embrace the virtue I’m being called to live. My difficulty, I guess, is being more forgiving to the people who can’t seem to understand the cross that I carry, nor do they realize their words add to the weight of it. I probably need to keep reminding myself that God is more forgiving and loving than His children…
 
Transformer–

My position is that if you ignore scriptural arguments against homosexuality, what remains of the Church’s articulated position is purely philosophical. What the Church says about homosexuality, therefore, must be judged according to philosophical standards. One of these standards forbids introducing undefined and unexplained terms: when “objective disorder” was first used in 1986, it was a completely unknown to theologians (who, regardless of the positions they take, ought to have a handle on the basic vocabulary of the subject). I would be very glad to be proven wrong on this point. Can you show me a pre-1986 usage of “objective disorder”? Better yet, can you find a pre-1986 definition? It’s not that your explanation is impossible; it’s just that there are many explanations of the term and my mind’s not made up which to believe.

The other problems I mentioned and which you address seem like fine tuning compared to the issues surrounding “objective disorder”. I pointed to them because they seem to me to show ways in which the Church abandons even minimal standards of rigor when she gets going on this topic.

The muddle and confusion that results from ignoring these standards is plain for all to see: among the Catholics who believe the “homosexual condition” is an “objective disorder,” we see some who think that gay people are essentially the same as depressed or diabetic people, and some who think that gay people are spiritual lepers who should keep to themselves and be only loosely attached to the Church. Although which of these positions a person takes up depends on various factors (e.g., homophobia), the fact is that the CCC is interpreted according the position you take up and not vice versa. That is, a meaning has to be imposed on this little bit of the CCC.
 
the position of the church always has been and always will be that sex outside of marriage is sinful. if you love someone enough to have sex with them then you should love them enough to marry them. if you just want to have sex with them and not marry them than it is lust you are feeling and not love. there is no such thing as same sex marriage becuse as god said way back in gen the tow shall become one flesh. homosexuals can not become one flesh (flesh of woman-egg flesh of man-sperm become one producing life) so the can not marry some one of the same sex. they are called to the same chastity as anybody hetro/homo who is not married. does that mean the church “hates homosexuality”? no it condems anything that is immoral whether it lieing, stealing what have you. to behave in a moral fashion is difficut becuse it is easier to give into the passions of the flesh. homosexual BEHAVIOR i,e, sodomy is a mortal sin but to have the disiour is venial. just like it is a mortal sin to commit murder but ony venial to think about it. the stance of the church on homosexuality is the same as its stance on pre-marrital sex-don’t do it. homosexuals can participate in the church as full as anybody but they have to be willing to do there best to live the moral law.
 
Yep, that’s pretty much it. Cut and dried.

Now watch this turn into a huge thread with arguments over whether or not the Church should accept homosexuality and/or Jesus never taught against homosexuality, etc. etc. 🍿
I believe that homosexuality is a disorder and I pray as often as I think about it, for a cure for homosexuality. “how long, O Lord?”
 
well, would that mean there’s no such thing as “third sex” then?
Third sex? Do you mean intersex? There are medical and genetic conditions where this can arise, but this has nothing to do with homosexuality. We are all human beings, created by God.Homosexuals and people whose sex is not as clearly defined as it should be are different matters, but we are all equal in the sight of God and all deserve compassion.
 
Third sex? Do you mean intersex? There are medical and genetic conditions where this can arise, but this has nothing to do with homosexuality. We are all human beings, created by God.Homosexuals and people whose sex is not as clearly defined as it should be are different matters, but we are all equal in the sight of God and all deserve compassion.
well by “third sex” I mean they are neither classified as male nor female. I guess this link would further explain what I mean. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

to quote
The terms third gender and third sex describe individuals who are considered to be neither women nor men, as well as the social category present in those societies who recognize three or more genders.
The state of being neither male nor female may be understood in relation to the individual’s biological sex, gender role, gender identity, or sexual orientation. To different cultures or individuals, a third sex or gender may represent an intermediate state between men and women, a state of being both (such as “the spirit of a man in the body of a woman”), the state of being neither (neuter), the ability to cross or swap genders, or another category altogether independent of male and female. This last definition is favored by those who argue for a strict interpretation of the “third gender” concept.
I do agree that in God’s eyes all of us are equal, and that we all deserve compassion. My point is, some people classify homosexuals as belonging to the third sex, which is, neither a male nor a female. So if gays and lesbians are men and women, being a male and being a female, should we not classify them as belonging to the “third sex”?

well I do hope you’ll get what I’m trying to say there. Thanks.
 
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