Church's view on same sex adoption?

[ngill09]

It sounds like your intentions might be good, but you are looking at this from the perspective of the flesh and as if all sin and immorality are equal. But the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that way. A child that is thrown into a situation where their main role models are engaged in open grave sin is scandal to the child. And scandal is the worst sin of all sins because it leads others to Hell. I’m sure that you would not agree that any kind of immorality is ok as long as a child gets adopted. For example, in Nevada prostitution is legal. Would you say that it’s better that a child gets adopted by a prostitute than if they don’t get adopted? I don’t think you would. So why make an exception for this kind of open grave sin? What good would it do to a child if they ended up in Hell forever because they were scandalized by this? As Christ said, what would it profit us to gain the world but lose our soul?

So would you argue that non-Christians should not be allowed to adopt? Surely denying that Jesus is the Messiah is a graver sin than homosexuality?

 

[livingwordunity]

So would you argue that non-Christians should not be allowed to adopt? Surely denying that Jesus is the Messiah is a graver sin than homosexuality?

You are comparing apples to oranges. In the teaching of the Catholic Church (which is what this thread is about) being a non-Christian in and of itself doesn’t equate to sin, but living in an active and openly homosexual relationship is grave sin and is scandal when imposed on children.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

It sounds like your intentions might be good,

My intentions aren’t relevant to the discussion.

but you are looking at this from the perspective of the flesh and as if all sin and immorality are equal.

These two situations are not equal. Leaving children in orphanages, being bounced around between foster parents, etc. is by far the greater evil. That lack of attention does grave harm to children, and that’s not even considering the physical/sexual/verbal abuse that many of these lost children suffer. Given a child some, even far less than ideal, chance is far better than no chance.

While I am not a supporter of gay marriage or other similar situations that are likely to come down the pike, I am even less of a supporter of abandoning children.

 

[devoutchristian]

Let’s see how consistent your “reason” is.

You say that the Catholic Church considers homosexuality to be immoral and this is grounds for homosexuals to be denied the ability to adopt children. Doesn’t the Catholic Church also teach that it is immoral to deny Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior? By that reasoning shouldn’t the Catholic Church also oppose the right of non-Christians to adopt, or even to raise children of their own? After all, aren’t Jews “living in a constant state of calling a terrible thing good” by denying that Jesus was the Messiah?

The Church teaches that people have a natural right to raise their own children. Jews, unlike homosexuals, can have children naturally.

 

[KungLao]

I recently just found out that Paul Ryan now supports same sex adoption. This got me thinking about whether or not the Church has an official view on the matter of same sex adoption.

Paul Ryan is wrong, much like the President and Joe Biden are wrong. Sadly, only Ryan recently appeared on the World Over. I look forward to a return visit so he can be forced to explain his incompatible public pronouncements with church teaching.

 

[KungLao]

I wonder why people are skeptical of the claim that Catholics “love the sinner but hate the sin”.

And I wonder why people believe that those who espouse “loving the sinner” means helping them indulge in the sin and allowing it to affect others…

 

[KungLao]

Probably personal experience.

So we should pass laws based on “your personal experience” and not mine, or someone else’s? Since when are anecdotes in anyway meaningful with regards to this sort of thing?

This is why personal revelation of truths fall apart instantly. If we do not have some external, unchanging source for truth, there is no absolute truth.

 

[KungLao]

Well, I’m basing what I know so far on the evidence of what I’ve heard children say. And I’m sure I’ve seen studies out there (I’ll look and see if i can find them) that have shown children often thrive in same-sex households…but I think if I post the studies, you may repeat “You cannot generalize anything from these studies…”

But I don’t see the Vatican basing anything on studies *or *testimonies in that statement that was posted…so I’m wondering why they are using the words “experience has shown…”
I don’t understand what experience they are talking about in Ed’s post…

Do you honestly believe the Vatican;s 2000 year existence, numerous theologians, pope’s and staff have less experience in this sort of thing that you? Honestly?

 

[KungLao]

The standard isn’t that homosexual parenting is the best, but that it’s better than the institutional environment that results from being left without any adopted parents.

Are you claiming that the push os not for homosexual adoption, but for allowing homosexuals to adopt after a period of time when no suitable heterosexual families can be found?

Come on.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

If a chaste homosexual wanted to adopt, would you still say no? Wouldn’t it be better for a child to have one parent than no parents at all?

 

[KungLao]

If a chaste homosexual wanted to adopt, would you still say no? Wouldn’t it be better for a child to have one parent than no parents at all?

How would anyone even know they were homosexual if they didn’t ever engage the behavior?

We as Catholics need to stop trying to find loopholes in Church teaching and obey. That’s all we are called to do. Parsing out what if scenarios borders on hubris and disobedience and serves no purpose.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

How would anyone even know they were homosexual if they didn’t ever engage the behavior?

We as Catholics need to stop trying to find loopholes in Church teaching and obey. That’s all we are called to do. Parsing out what if scenarios borders on hubris and disobedience and serves no purpose.

People identify as gay and not have sex. That is like asking how is someone a heterosexual and not engage in sex with the opposite sex. I knew I liked boys long before I had sex.

I have a legitimate question. It doesn’t border on disobedience. A child needs a family and this person isn’t doing anything sinful.
You saying anything to me serves no purpose since you didn’t answer my question.

 

[livingwordunity]

These two situations are not equal. Leaving children in orphanages, being bounced around between foster parents, etc. is by far the greater evil.

That’s according to you but not according to the Catholic Church. This thread is about what the Church’s view is, not what your personal opinion is. But here’s a question for you. Prostitution is legal in Nevada. Do you believe that a child would be better off being adopted and raised by a prostitute than not getting adopted by anyone and living in a foster home?

 

[livingwordunity]

How would anyone even know they were homosexual if they didn’t ever engage the behavior?

We as Catholics need to stop trying to find loopholes in Church teaching and obey. That’s all we are called to do. Parsing out what if scenarios borders on hubris and disobedience and serves no purpose.

And I would add this…

“For such is the nature of faith that nothing can be more absurd than to accept some things and reject others.” - Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum

And this…

“…if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” -Matthew 18:17

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

That’s according to you but not according to the Catholic Church. This thread is about what the Church’s view is, not what your personal opinion is.

The Church typically writes in a very specific, very legalistic manner, and I read their documents and statements in that context. I understand very well what the Church understands regarding this matter. However, the Church does not teach that abandoning children is a better solution, nor will the Church say that.

We have a situation here that involves two immoral choices, and because the Church has spoken regarding gay couples and adoptions, people say that is not a choice, and the children get left with no parents. It is what I call the action of no action. Or, as phrased in a Rush song:

“If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.”

If you are faced with such a choice, you have committed an immoral action regardless of choice or no choice. In such a circumstance, the child must come first. On Judgment Day, I’d rather say that I did what I thought best for a child than what I thought was not best for the child.

 

[livingwordunity]

The Church typically writes in a very specific, very legalistic manner, and I read their documents and statements in that context. I understand very well what the Church understands regarding this matter. However, the Church does not teach that abandoning children is a better solution, nor will the Church say that.

We have a situation here that involves two immoral choices, and because the Church has spoken regarding gay couples and adoptions, people say that is not a choice, and the children get left with no parents. It is what I call the action of no action. Or, as phrased in a Rush song:

“If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.”

If you are faced with such a choice, you have committed an immoral action regardless of choice or no choice. In such a circumstance, the child must come first. On Judgment Day, I’d rather say that I did what I thought best for a child than what I thought was not best for the child.

I disagree with you about what the Church says about this. Provide a quote from an official Vatican document, and we can go from there.

But I agree that Rush is a very musically talented band. I also like this quote by Kansas:

“And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don’t know”. - Carry On Wayward Son

But you haven’t answered my question yet. Prostitution is legal in Nevada. Do you believe that a child would be better off being adopted and raised by a prostitute than not getting adopted and living in a foster home?

 

[KendraDZ1902]

And I would add this…

“For such is the nature of faith that nothing can be more absurd than to accept some things and reject others.” - Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum

And this…

“…if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” -Matthew 18:17

Um, I’m not rejecting anything. I asked a question.

 

[ngill09]

I disagree with you about what the Church says about this. Provide a quote from an official Vatican document, and we can go from there.

But I agree that Rush is a very musically talented band. I also like this quote by Kansas:

“And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don’t know”. - Carry On Wayward Son

But you haven’t answered my question yet. Prostitution is legal in Nevada. Do you believe that a child would be better off being adopted and raised by a prostitute than not getting adopted and living in a foster home?

I’d probably say that a child is better off being adopted and raised by a prostitute than by a good number of the Catholics in this forum.

 

[livingwordunity]

“Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.” - 2357, The Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

[CopticChristian]

I fixed your post.

No you did not, you rendered an alternate opinion.

The quote function is to quote what it is you are responding to. You do not like rules.

Taking the liberty to take my words and change them as designate them as a fix is indicative of your believing they were broken and needed fixing. Do you often judge others believing that their thoughts are broken and in need of fixing.

You may want to consider quoting and then providing an alternate point of view. The way you have done it require me to extend more effort to understand your communication. Rather than reading what I wrote in one post, reading an alternate point of view in that same post you want me to extend effort to look at 2 posts to figure out what it is you are trying to say.

Have you considered simplifying your communication or do you believe making communication difficult aids your cause?