Church's view on same sex adoption?

[CHRISTINE77]

FWIW, according to the line of thinking present in this thread, I should have not adopted. That’s because I also was not chaste. At the time of all of my daughter’s adoptions, I was a divorced and remarried non-practicing Catholic, thus not worthy to take in abandoned children. Of course, if you asked my daughters what they thought of this unchaste situation they were living in, they’d look at you like you had three heads.

Not only that, many divorced and remarried people, Christian, non-Christian, and atheist alike, also adopt. Can I assume that you would also like to enact laws to keep these people from adopting also?

What the heck does that have to do with anything? Were you a homosexual at the time? Because that is what we are talking about, not whether you were chaste or not or whether atheists and divorced people can adopt.

 

[Julianna]

WarriorMonk has a life and a job.

Don’t ya know it!

I went to “work” today. I go 5 days a week. I highly recommend it. Being out there with people, walking the earth…talking…

it’s sure beats swimmin’ around the fish bowl all day…

The Church is against SS adoption and always will be, however, the states and the US government are flexible.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

What the heck does that have to do with anything? Were you a homosexual at the time? Because that is what we are talking about, not whether you were chaste or not or whether atheists and divorced people can adopt.

Stick with Homosexuality…do you agree with the section on the Catechism that was posted that you failed to respond to…as you take a break from work…

Well, there goes your chastity argument. Hopefully you won’t be mentioning that again.

Instead of demanding other answer your questions, why don’t you answer one of my questions first?

Do you think that these abandoned children should remain in their hopeless situation when a person is available to give them a stable, safe situation?

 

[CopticChristian]

Well, there goes your chastity argument. Hopefully you won’t be mentioning that again.

Instead of demanding other answer your questions, why don’t you answer one of my questions first?

May I remind you sensei that you came to CAF, where questions are asked to explain and defend the Faith…I asked, you ignored…

Do you think that these abandoned children should remain in their hopeless situation when a person is available to give them a stable, safe situation?

Any child that has been abandoned, in a hopeless situation, is not available to be given to any person with what appears to be a stable safe situation because what may appear to be stable may or may not be stable in particular when that situation condones, practices and accept immoral, abberrant, deviant behavior as seen in homosexuality. This is contrary to the best interest of the child.

your turn…

 

[fix]

Stick with Homosexuality…do you agree with the section on the Catechism that was posted that you failed to respond to…as you take a break from work…

Let me help you. To many those are just words in a dusty book. A pie in the sky ideal you give lip service to. In the “real” world you compromise and do what you feel is right.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

May I remind you sensei that you came to CAF, where questions are asked to explain and defend the Faith…I asked, you ignored…

Any child that has been abandoned, in a hopeless situation, is not available to be given to any person with what appears to be a stable safe situation because what may appear to be stable may or may not be stable in particular when that situation condones, practices and accept immoral, abberrant, deviant behavior as seen in homosexuality. This is contrary to the best interest of the child.

your turn…

Yes the abandoned child doesn’t deserve much. Whatever he can get.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

May I remind you sense

BTW, you have a great deal to learn about martial arts; your reference is completely off base.

Any child that has been abandoned, in a hopeless situation, is not available to be given to any person with what appears to be a stable safe situation because what may appear to be stable may or may not be stable in particular when that situation condones, practices and accept immoral, abberrant, deviant behavior as seen in homosexuality. This is contrary to the best interest of the child.

your turn…

That’s right…leave the child abandoned.

Now go to your local politician and demand that abandoned children must remain abandoned, lest a gay person get a hold of it. Tell me how that works out, and how you’ve promoted your faith by doing so. After all, this is CAF, and you are promoting the faith…

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Yes the abandoned child doesn’t deserve much. Whatever he can get.

Nah…just keep the kid in his/her miserable state. Wait for the ideal situation to come along, and only then give the kid a chance. Or I should say a few years at best…because once they get older, they become extremely difficult to place, especially if they aren’t minority and/or disabled. Don’t ask the kids what they would prefer either, because they are ignorant and not able to know that the current miserable state is better than a less than ideal stable setting.

 

[CopticChristian]

BTW, you have a great deal to learn about martial arts; your reference is completely off base.

That’s right…leave the child abandoned.

Now go to your local politician and demand that abandoned children must remain abandoned, lest a gay person get a hold of it. Tell me how that works out, and how you’ve promoted your faith by doing so. After all, this is CAF, and you are promoting the faith…

Does anyone ever learn everything there is to know about the Martial Arts…I studied Judo, 3rd degree Brown Belt, could not do the Black, hurt my knee and could not compete…1 year Shotokan, 1 year White Dragon Kung Fu, Purple Hawain Kempo and my daughter and I are going to start all over again with another Kempo system…I looked into Jiu Jitsu but at 65…I am not sure I should do that…

Any child that has been abandoned, in a hopeless situation, is not available to be given to any person with what appears to be a stable safe situation because what may appear to be stable may or may not be stable However when a stituation that appears to be safe in a home that condones, practices and accept immoral, abberrant, deviant behavior as seen in homosexuality, I believe that this is an acceptable home and have been told that this is contrary to the best interest of the child.

So, not taking the time to write it out…is this how you see it?

If you look up to the left of the page it says

Catholic Answers
Explain and defend the Faith…

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Does anyone ever learn everything there is to know about the Martial Arts…I studied Judo, 3rd degree Brown Belt, could not do the Black, hurt my knee and could not compete…1 year Shotokan, 1 year White Dragon Kung Fu, Purple Hawain Kempo and my daughter and I are going to start all over again with another Kempo system…I looked into Jiu Jitsu but at 65…I am not sure I should do that…

A teacher in a traditional Shaolin system is not called sensei. That’s something you learn on day 1 of training before you step on the floor.

Catholic Answers
Explain and defend the Faith…

Since we are discussing martial arts, did you learn how to apply what you’ve learned? If so, why don’t you do that with your religion?

 

[CopticChristian]

.

A teacher in a traditional Shaolin system is not called sensei. That’s something you learn on day 1 of training before you step on the floor

I honestly did not know you were in the Shaolin system…Grandmaster? Would that do?

Since we are discussing martial arts, did you learn how to apply what you’ve learned? If so, why don’t you do that with your religion?

Here is what I learned…you like the word abandoned and.

**abandoned **children should remain in their hopeless situation

**abandoned **children must remain abandoned

Do you consider “Hopeless” better than “Less the ideal.” Because that’s the situation with a great number of children, typically minority and disabled.

Apparently keeping them in this situation is far better then putting them in a stable, but less than ideal situation.
God made all types of people, including ones that care about **abandoned **children,

you admit that the situation is less than ideal…

My recollection in Kempo is that there is not a less than ideal kick, less than ideal block, less than ideal punch…otherwise why bother…

So if you settle for less than ideal, what parameters determine the quality of ideal…?

That punch was less than Ideal…but as your teacher…we teach less than ideal martial arts…in fact we now call this school the

Less than Ideal School of Shaolin system for those that were abandoned by Traditional Schools requiring excellence…don’t worry…if you encounter one of those other guys…you should be well prepared with less than ideal training…

So now, we have a less than ideal situation, you admit…

What about a less than ideal situation like…

A child adopted by two men from NAMBLA
A child adopted by a man/woman and the woman works at Mustang Ranch in Nevada
A child adopted by well whatever less ideal situation we can imagine…

Who is going to decide what is the least of the less than ideal situations?

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I honestly did not know you were in the Shaolin system…Grandmaster? Would that do?

Well, you claim to have taken kung fu: sifu, sigung, sitaigung, sijo.

What about a less than ideal situation like…

A child adopted by two men from NAMBLA

My positions are based on realist situations. A situation involving men that support sexual abusing children is not a superior situation than the are in.

Who is going to decide what is the least of the less than ideal situations?

It’s actually very easy to figure out. Anyone that has raised children knows that safety, stability, and order is a must. Anyone can see that allowing NAMBLA members to raise children they want to have sex with is not safe. Anyone can see that allowing an active prostitute is not a stable situation (based on issues associated with prostitutes), and might not be safe if the person is bringing people home.

OTOH, allowing the children to be raised in a Shaolin Temples across Africa might not be ideal, because they are not being raised Christian nor have parents, but they have safety, stability, and order in the highest degree.

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tDMg7N4ve_k

 

[CopticChristian]

Well, you claim to have taken kung fu: sifu, sigung, sitaigung, sijo.

My positions are based on realist situations. A situation involving men that support sexual abusing children is not a superior situation than the are in.

It’s actually very easy to figure out. Anyone that has raised children knows that safety, stability, and order is a must. Anyone can see that allowing NAMBLA members to raise children they want to have sex with is not safe. Anyone can see that allowing an active prostitute is not a stable situation (based on issues associated with prostitutes), and might not be safe if the person is bringing people home.

OTOH, allowing the children to be raised in a Shaolin Temples across Africa might not be ideal, because they are not being raised Christian nor have parents, but they have safety, stability, and order in the highest degree.

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tDMg7N4ve_k

I learned from Sam Kuoha, who learned from Professor Chow…here he is with his daughter…we called him Grandmaster…

youtube.com/watch?v=grkPekh78qM

It’s actually very easy to figure out. Anyone that has raised children knows that safety, stability, and order is a must. Anyone can see that allowing NAMBLA members to raise children they want to have sex with is not safe. Anyone can see that allowing an active prostitute is not a stable situation (based on issues associated with prostitutes), and might not be safe if the person is bringing people home.

So, Sins against Chastity are Sins Against Chastity…

It’s actually very easy to figure out. Anyone that has raised children knows that safety, stability, and order is a must. Anyone can see that allowing PEOPLE THAT SIN AGAINST CHASITY raise children they want to have sex with is not safe. Anyone can see that allowing **WOMEN THAT SIN AGAINST CHASTITY **is not a stable situation (based on issues associated with prostitutes), and might not be safe if the person is bringing people home.

NAMBLA
Prostitution
Incest
Homosexuality
Pornography
Rape

Are all sins against Chastity…how is it you are able to accept that all are sins against Chastity with the exception of one…they are all people…they are all capable of expressing love towards a child…yet you believe that one is exceptional…

Yes, exceptional…you believe that Homosexuality is exceptional…how did you come to believe this?

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Are all sins against Chastity…how is it you are able to accept that all are sins against Chastity with the exception of one…they are all people…they are all capable of expressing love towards a child…yet you believe that one is exceptional…

I knew that even though you dodged the chastity bullet earlier, you would bring it up at whim whenever you wished to make a point.

Obviously you think that my wife and I were utterly unsuitable parents when we adopted, because were non-practicing divorced and remarried Catholic parents. Obviously you think that divorced and remarried atheist Chinese adopting children in their own country are unsuitable parents because they are sinning against chastity. Obviously you think that a married Catholic couple that might masturbate once in a while are unsuitable parents because they are sinning against chastity. Because to think otherwise would mean there are exceptions…

 

[CopticChristian]

I knew that even though you dodged the chastity bullet earlier, you would bring it up at whim whenever you wished to make a point.

Obviously you think that my wife and I were utterly unsuitable parents when we adopted, because were non-practicing divorced and remarried Catholic parents. Obviously you think that divorced and remarried atheist Chinese adopting children in their own country are unsuitable parents because they are sinning against chastity. Obviously you think that a married Catholic couple that might masturbate once in a while are unsuitable parents because they are sinning against chastity. Because to think otherwise would mean there are exceptions…

Well then let us see…

WarriorMonk/male and wife/female…sinned, repented…

Divorced Remarried athiest unkowingly sin against Chastity, they are in another country and we can only say we wish they find God

Married man/woman, sin once in a while, Catholic, probably repent

Homosexual, living homosexual life, constantly sinning against Chastity, and we know that they do and they openly profess their gay lifestyle and if there is any doubt that any homosexual in the USA does not know the stance against Homosexuality then I beg to differ…and this is a different animal…no repentance, in fact celebration…

What you believe I think and what I think are not what you may believe to be so obvious grasshopper…

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Well then let us see…

WarriorMonk/male and wife/female…sinned, repented…

Divorced Remarried athiest unkowingly sin against Chastity, they are in another country and we can only say we wish they find God

Married man/woman, sin once in a while, Catholic, probably repent

Homosexual, living homosexual life, constantly sinning against Chastity, and we know that they do and they openly profess their gay lifestyle and if there is any doubt that any homosexual in the USA does not know the stance against Homosexuality then I beg to differ…and this is a different animal…no repentance, in fact celebration…

What you believe I think and what I think are not what you may believe to be so obvious grasshopper…

So that’s interesting, as long as they are heterosexual and might repent, that’s good enough. But not gays, because they obviously won’t repent, right?

Of course, if that same unchaste Catholic couple were, say, teaching at a Catholic school, they would be fired…but, hey, they’re good enough to raise a kid.

Is this your personal opinion, or has the Church spoken on this? This is CAF, you know, and apparently personal opinions don’t matter.

 

[CopticChristian]

TheWarriorMonk;10715678]

So that’s interesting, as long as they are heterosexual and might repent, that’s good enough. But not gays, because they obviously won’t repent, right?

Of course, if that same unchaste Catholic couple were, say, teaching at a Catholic school, they would be fired…but, hey, they’re good enough to raise a kid.

Is this your personal opinion, or has the Church spoken on this? This is CAF, you know, and apparently personal opinions don’t matter.

Grasshopper,

you have yet to answer a simple question…within your mind, as you imagine, excluding any other choice, knowing that there can only be something that you can agree or not agree with…

Do you agree or disagree with the following…

2346 Charity is the form of all the virtues. Under its influence, chastity appears as a school of the gift of the person. Self-mastery is ordered to the gift of self. Chastity leads him who practices it to become a witness to his neighbor of God’s fidelity and loving kindness.

2347 The virtue of chastity blossoms in friendship. It shows the disciple how to follow and imitate him who has chosen us as his friends,134 who has given himself totally to us and allows us to participate in his divine estate. Chastity is a promise of immortality.

Chastity is expressed notably in friendship with one’s neighbor. Whether it develops between persons of the same or opposite sex, friendship represents a great good for all. It leads to spiritual communion.

In your mind, as you reflect, not referring to any man, any woman, any marriage, any child…

yes or no

Is Chastity a virtue?

 

[shelby_sun]

I know this is a very difficult subject, but I cannot imagine being a child knowing no one in the whole world wants me. How likely is it that a child like that would put any faith in God. The biggest sin in this world is the neglect and abuse of children and if the only people who are willing to adopt these children are homosexual couples, than they are a blessing to those children.

Most homosexual couples don;t go around promoting their sexuality any more than heterosexual married couples. No one really knows for sure if any homosexual couple is practicing chastity or not, just like most don’t know when someone is cheating on their spouse or that a couple is not having sex anymore.

I have asked this question quite a bit on this site, but no one seems to respond, of all those so against homosexuals adopting children, who has adopted children themselves?

 

[fix]

I know this is a very difficult subject, but I cannot imagine being a child knowing no one in the whole world wants me. How likely is it that a child like that would put any faith in God. The biggest sin in this world is the neglect and abuse of children and if the only people who are willing to adopt these children are homosexual couples, than they are a blessing to those children.

Most homosexual couples don;t go around promoting their sexuality any more than heterosexual married couples. No one really knows for sure if any homosexual couple is practicing chastity or not, just like most don’t know when someone is cheating on their spouse or that a couple is not having sex anymore.

I have asked this question quite a bit on this site, but no one seems to respond, of all those so against homosexuals adopting children, who has adopted children themselves?

Again I see the false choice. Why is the choice super bad evil conditions or “gay” adoption?

It is a false choice. First there should not exist “gay” adoption at all. That is fundamentally wrong on many levels. Children deserve better. If you say conditions are not satisfactory for orphans or others then the answer is to correct that problem not usher in some new bizarre relationships and claim that a solution.

The answer to your question is that your question serves no real purpose. The moral law does not stop existing based on who adopts and who does not adopt.

 

[CopticChristian]

I know this is a very difficult subject, but I cannot imagine being a child knowing no one in the whole world wants me. How likely is it that a child like that would put any faith in God. The biggest sin in this world is the neglect and abuse of children and if the only people who are willing to adopt these children are homosexual couples, than they are a blessing to those children.

Most homosexual couples don;t go around promoting their sexuality any more than heterosexual married couples. No one really knows for sure if any homosexual couple is practicing chastity or not, just like most don’t know when someone is cheating on their spouse or that a couple is not having sex anymore.

I have asked this question quite a bit on this site, but no one seems to respond, of all those so against homosexuals adopting children, who has adopted children themselves?

I have noticed that you have swallowed the Essentialism=Born that Way pill and concerning the pill, your opinion has been if you take the pill and know it is contrary there is no need to repent and confess it.

While accepting the Church in part, it is not accept this, and that but only this and that…it is to understand that choice is to do the Will of God in all things as we journey…

What difference does it make if someone has or has not adopted children…?

Why not ask, for those on this thread, how many of you have experienced the loving Sodomy between two male homosexuals wanting to adopt children?