Cindy Sheehan now clames to be channeling Casey. She need help and prayers.

[Ani_Ibi]

Jersey Jeepster:

So, here we have the hypocrisy. Cindy Sheehan is being given a pass for all the hateful, disrespectful, and outright biased vitriol she has been spewing, all in the name of grief. And the couple who hugged the Iraqi woman during the State of the Union speech is denied the understanding that they acted out of grief for their lost son, by showing solidarity with the Iraqi woman and the president’s mission in Iraq. Instead, they are accused of being disingenuous.

It is coming to light that Cindy Sheehan has previously taken part in many anti-American, anti-Bush rallies and speeches. In my mind, it is all very telling as to what her real motivation is. None of it has to do with grief for the loss of her son.

Please do not ask Mr Jersey to re-explain this. It is clear enough the first time. For all those who have lost loved ones, I am sorry and I pray for them. Death is full of pain and loss. But I do not support subverting what those who have died stood for; I do not support subverting that in order to further one’s own cause – a cause which is separate, different, distinct, and radically opposed to the cause of those who have died. To do so is to bear false witness and to disrespect the dead. It also brings pain to survivors. I believe that this is what Ms Sheehan has done. This is my opinion. Some of you have a different opinion. It is what it is.

 

[Lizzie]

Ani Ibi:

I am not denying that she is grieving.

. The woman has taken her son’s name and used it for her own cause, a cause which her son clearly did not stand for. Not only that, she and her cohorts have taken the names of many other war dead and, without even a glance in the direction of the survivors, have inscribed their names on crosses and used the whole deal to promote their own cause without asking permission. That is false witness. I have said this before too.

And when the survivors removed their loved one’s crosses from Camp Casey, the Camp Casey folk simply replaced them. What seems to be the problem here?

Once again: I do not believe the woman is coping with her grief. I believe she is gaining mileage from it for her own cause, a cause which her son did not share. This is what I believe. If you believe something different, then it is what it is.

This bears repeating.

Cindy has gained mileage for her own cause.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

David_Paul:

How many others are always referred to as “grieving” over a year after a death? No one.

Well to be fair, I think two years about says it for the main brunt of the disconnectedness and raw, brutal pain. I don’t think the pain ever goes away, but it can be mitigated by life coming back or just being able to reconcile oneself with the life and death of the person who is missed.

David_Paul:

Consorting with marxists who support totalitarian regimes including those who killed her son is not an expression of grief. Cindy Sheehan’s ideology pre-dates her son’s death.

And Cindy Sheehan misrepresents what her son stood for. That does not sit well with me. Pray for the woman, yes. But I do not see the sense in facilitating or enabling her dissociation from the reality of what her son stood for.

 

[David_Paul]

Ani Ibi…listen to this:

“570 KLIF’s Ankarlo Mornings’ spy, Michael, reports from deep within the bowels of the Cindy Sheehan camp in Crawford, Texas. Michael has gone undercover. And man, does he have some stories.”
amfmpodcast.com/PodCast/ankarlo-michael.mp3

KLIF podcast home page:

*klif.com/podcast.asp#podcast

 

[Ani_Ibi]

David_Paul:

Ani Ibi…listen to this:

“570 KLIF’s Ankarlo Mornings’ spy, Michael, reports from deep within the bowels of the Cindy Sheehan camp in Crawford, Texas. Michael has gone undercover. And man, does he have some stories.”
amfmpodcast.com/PodCast/ankarlo-michael.mp3

KLIF podcast home page:

*klif.com/podcast.asp#podcast

Here is the money trail and what her family thinks of her behaviour. You may have to scroll down a bit.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

David_Paul:

Ani Ibi…listen to this:

“570 KLIF’s Ankarlo Mornings’ spy, Michael, reports from deep within the bowels of the Cindy Sheehan camp in Crawford, Texas. Michael has gone undercover. And man, does he have some stories.”
amfmpodcast.com/PodCast/ankarlo-michael.mp3

KLIF podcast home page:

*klif.com/podcast.asp#podcast

OK, those of you who have been talking about the grieving process, this radio interview indicates that Sheehan is tears and ashes when the cameras are on her and ‘all lit up’ when they are not. Her website is taking in $1000 per day. So far $300 000 has gone to the Peace House. Her supporters have been saying that Camp Casey is not about Sheehan. Nor is it about Casey. It is about ‘bigger things.’ Funding seems to be coming from the Democratic Party, according to this source, although no major Democratic Party rep has shown his or her face at the camp.

 

[Cathlicrat]

I am amazed that people think a citizen of America cannot use tragedy and grief of a loved one killed as a springboard for political activism. This is an important element to the fabric of our Society.

Lets see: Would we have Americas Most Wanted if John Walsh didnt have his son kidnapped and killed?

Would we have MADD (Mothers against drunk driving) if a mom didnt lose her child to a drunk driver?

The list is seemingly endless for people who have used: disease, death, tragedy etc…as springboards to bring GOOD out of Evil; including bringing an end to unjust wars.

The problem is that people think those who begin these movements should be and remain infallible, cause God forbid if they are then somehow shown as human with human errors and flaws then everything they stood for or created gets tainted? Thats absurd.

Cindy Sheehan is the inspiration to get out of Iraq and finally a microscope being placed on this Presidents actions; and has sparked people to ask out loud why such mismanagement is and has been occuring causing further danger to our troops.

I encourage my fellow Catholics and Christians to seriously reflect on this.

 

[Fitz]

Cathlicrat:

I am amazed that people think a citizen of America cannot use tragedy and grief of a loved one killed as a springboard for political activism. This is an important element to the fabric of our Society.

Lets see: Would we have Americas Most Wanted if John Walsh didnt have his son kidnapped and killed?

Would we have MADD (Mothers against drunk driving) if a mom didnt lose her child to a drunk driver?

The list is seemingly endless for people who have used: disease, death, tragedy etc…as springboards to bring GOOD out of Evil; including bringing an end to unjust wars.

You have some good points. The difference I see is the grandstading at our counties expense and to the delight of the enemy. Remember we are in a time of war and other peoples adult chidren and spouses and Iraqi soldiers and citizens are still at risk here. Cindy most certainly could have harnessed her grief and supported her son’s memory in an entirely different way.

I pray for Cindy and all the Gold Star moms and dads and sisters and brothers. We have many on CA here that have family currently serving in the Middle East. We have many on CA here that have grieved a lifetime for a missing dad or brother from another war, like Vietnam.

Camp Cindy is a circus and it is being supported by some heavy duty antiamerican groups. I don’t appreciate her methods and her allies.

 

[Lizzie]

Cindy and her allies are prolonging the conflict by encouraing the dissidents.

Cindy said on Aug 16 she has no problems with those who killed her son and that the US government is/are the terrorists

 

[gilliam]

Cindy was very active during the 2004 elections just no one paid much attention to her. She won a press round with this vigil in TX where there were hundreds of press people sitting around the town with nothing to do waiting for Bush to stick his nose out of the ranch.

She and her PR people simply took advantage of the press and gave them something to cover.

 

[SemperJase]

Cathlicrat:

Lets see: Would we have Americas Most Wanted if John Walsh didnt have his son kidnapped and killed?

The difference is that AMW is going after the criminals and not blaming America itself fo his son’s death.

Sheehan has complained that America is not worth dying for and blames President Bush for her son’s death rather than the people who actually killed him. A view that seems no to be shared by her husband whose has the same loss.

Cathlicrat:

Would we have MADD (Mothers against drunk driving) if a mom didnt lose her child to a drunk driver?

Interesting example since the founder of MADD is no longer associated with the group because of its radicalization. It is more against drinking than just drinking and driving now.

The point is that a grievious loss is not in itself the basis for moral authority as Maureen Dowd claimed.

I recognize Cindy Sheehan’s pain. But that pain does not make her claims rational. We need to reflect on that.

 

[gnjsdad]

Ani Ibi:

That is your opinion. If you want your opinion to further this discussion then please give reasons why you think these descriptions are ‘inappropriate.’ They explain her behaviour not her person btw.

Just how is Mrs Sheehan’s behavior “devious”? This implies that you know that she knows she’s being deceptive in what she’s doing. Just how do you know that?
Ani Ibi:

I’ve already answered this question. The woman has taken her son’s name and used it for her own cause, a cause which her son clearly did not stand for. Not only that, she and her cohorts have taken the names of many other war dead and, without even a glance in the direction of the survivors, have inscribed their names on crosses and used the whole deal to promote their own cause without asking permission. That is false witness. I have said this before too.

And when George Bush, or any other politician for that matter, purports to speak for “the American people”, even those who might vociferously oppose him, you have criticized that, right?

 

[gilliam]

Life imitates art

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Cathlicrat:

I am amazed that people think a citizen of America cannot use tragedy and grief of a loved one killed as a springboard for political activism.

I am amazed that you would so disingenuous misrepresent our position when my position has been set out clearly on several occasions.

Cathlicrat:

Lets see: Would we have Americas Most Wanted if John Walsh didnt have his son kidnapped and killed?

No.

Cathlicrat:

Would we have MADD (Mothers against drunk driving) if a mom didnt lose her child to a drunk driver?

No.

Cathlicrat:

The list is seemingly endless for people who have used: disease, death, tragedy etc…as springboards to bring GOOD out of Evil

Yes.

Cathlicrat:

including bringing an end to unjust wars.

Link?

Cathlicrat:

The problem is that people think those who begin these movements should be and remain infallible

Says who?

Cathlicrat:

cause God forbid if they are then somehow shown as human with human errors and flaws then everything they stood for or created gets tainted?

Says who?

Cathlicrat:

Thats absurd.

Yes, it is absurd.

Cathlicrat:

Cindy Sheehan is the inspiration to get out of Iraq

Nope. She’s the inspiration to get the Democrats elected.

Cathlicrat:

and finally a microscope being placed on this Presidents actions

I suggest you look through that microscope then. There is a thread on WMD. Gilliam has given us a mountain of links about the successes of the Iraqi people in taking up the reins of their infrastructure, police, fire brigades, army, military bases, hospitals, schools, constitution, elections, and so on. These are the actions flowing from the President’s decisions.

Cathlicrat:

and has sparked people to ask out loud why such mismanagement is and has been occuring causing further danger to our troops.

The death rate of the troops in Iraq is roughly half that of troops who die due to accidental causes. Moreover, the troops have been sent into a warzone. Warzones are dangerous. The troops are trained to deal with those dangers. That is the job for which they volunteered. No they were not forced. Not drafted. They volunteered. Casey volunteered. He re-enlisted knowing that he would be in harm’s way. But you already know this because we have certainly said these things often enough.

Do read any of the links we post?

Cathlicrat:

I encourage my fellow Catholics and Christians to seriously reflect on this.

And this fellow Catholic encourages you to take one week and read all the links which gilliam has given us. It is one thing to have an opinion. Another thing to have an informed opinion.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

gnjsdad:

Just how is Mrs Sheehan’s behavior “devious”? This implies that you know that she knows she’s being deceptive in what she’s doing. Just how do you know that?

Casey volunteered for one tour of duty. He then re-enlisted for another tour of duty knowing that he would be in harm’s way. Sheehan knows this. Yet uses his death at the hands of the enemy to further her own agenda, heedless of what her son gave his life for.

In doing so she has deliberately, consciously subverted what he stood for and is trying to make out that he supports her agenda. This is devious. And it is false witness. She can quite legitimately be against the War. But she cannot legitimately use her own son’s good name to support that position. He was not against the War.

Now the money trail:

She says she is going to withhold her taxes as a protest. Long before she was protesting, she was already withholding her taxes. Why? Because a lien was put on her house.

Move.org has dedicated $ 2 million to Sheehan.

Her website is taking in $1000 per day. Nothing wrong with that per se. But figure this: when the camera is on, she howls in anguish. When the camera is off she is ‘lit up’ and chatting happily about how much money she is making.

$300 000 has gone to the Peace House as a result of Sheehan’s newsworthiness.

Now look at the inconsistencies:

“My husband and I are separated, because he doesn’t support my activities.”

Mrs. Sheehan told People that she understands her kids would like to have her back home, but still claimed that “they’re supportive.” (The kids are completely not happy with her performance.)

When President Bush visited her she could not praise him enough. Now she cannot find enough expletives with which to condemn him in front of her friends.

Add her inconsistencies and inconsistent affect with the money trail and you get: devious.

gnjsdad:

And when George Bush, or any other politician for that matter, purports to speak for “the American people”, even those who might vociferously oppose him, you have criticized that, right?

You are subverting what I have said. That is not a friendly gesture. I have made it quite clear exactly why I do not believe Ms Sheehan. There is no excuse for deliberately misrepresenting what I have said. Please refrain.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Life imitates art

 

[Cathlicrat]

Too many people are confusing speaking out against your government as being against America. I am against the policies of this administration and Bush as well. Anyone here wish to accuse me of being against America?

Cindy has never spoken against America. If someone says she has, they are either lying or twisting her words. I have heard the woman on TV and on radio say she loves her country. The problem lies with people who have lost perspective that speaking against Govt somehow means Country. That is sick. Accusing someone who speaks out against their Govt and President as prolonging the war or harming troops is laughable and sad…Isnt that like Jingoism ?

Exactly WHEN then is one to speak out against Govt? When things go well? That would be kind of dumb now wouldnt it?

So that means one protests and speaks out when things go BAD…but Jingoists fail to see that… they are people who think one should never speak bad about their leaders or Govt… please go back and read what our past leaders have to say about that very issue and reflect :crying:

 

[gnjsdad]

Ani Ibi:

Casey volunteered for one tour of duty. He then re-enlisted for another tour of duty knowing that he would be in harm’s way. Sheehan knows this. Yet uses his death at the hands of the enemy to further her own agenda, heedless of what her son gave his life for.

In doing so she has deliberately, consciously subverted what he stood for and is trying to make out that he supports her agenda. This is devious. And it is false witness. She can quite legitimately be against the War. But she cannot legitimately use her own son’s good name to support that position. He was not against the War.

Please clear this up for me. Is there a link or quote you can provide that indicates just how Casey Sheehan felt about his service? Did he really believe in the mission? If so, that would vindicate your argument.

I have seen plenty of posts here touting the high re-enlistment rates of the armed services as proof of high morale and faith in the mission. I have seen other reports of extraordinary pressure put on soldiers to re-up - that includes being threatened with stop loss and the consequent loss of all post service benefits. Now, can we honestly say that all of these re-enlisted troops really believe in the mission?
Ani Ibi:

Now the money trail:

She says she is going to withhold her taxes as a protest. Long before she was protesting, she was already withholding her taxes. Why? Because a lien was put on her house.

Move.org has dedicated $ 2 million to Sheehan.

Her website is taking in $1000 per day. Nothing wrong with that per se. But figure this: when the camera is on, she howls in anguish. When the camera is off she is ‘lit up’ and chatting happily about how much money she is making.

$300 000 has gone to the Peace House as a result of Sheehan’s newsworthiness.

I always thought it was a mistake to say she won’t pay taxes. Rest assured, the IRS is watching. They will punish any criminal activity.
Ani Ibi:

Now look at the inconsistencies:

“My husband and I are separated, because he doesn’t support my activities.”

Mrs. Sheehan told People that she understands her kids would like to have her back home, but still claimed that “they’re supportive.” (The kids are completely not happy with her performance.)

When President Bush visited her she could not praise him enough. Now she cannot find enough expletives with which to condemn him in front of her friends.

Add her inconsistencies and inconsistent affect with the money trail and you get: devious.

So she’s inconsistent (unlike all the rest of us who NEVER are). I’m not nearly as worried about the inconsistencies of one unfortunate woman with no power than I am about those of a man with life and death power over thousands of people.
Ani Ibi:

You are subverting what I have said. That is not a friendly gesture. I have made it quite clear exactly why I do not believe Ms Sheehan. There is no excuse for deliberately misrepresenting what I have said. Please refrain.

You said:

Originally Posted by Ani Ibi
*I’ve already answered this question. The woman has taken her son’s name and used it for her own cause, a cause which her son clearly did not stand for. Not only that, she and her cohorts have taken the names of many other war dead and, without even a glance in the direction of the survivors, have inscribed their names on crosses and used the whole deal to promote their own cause without asking permission. That is false witness. I have said this before too. *

I pointed out that George W Bush does the same thing all the time when he purports to speak for “the American people”. How is that subverting what you said? I just took your logic and applied it to a different situation.

It’s obvious you don’t like Mrs Sheehan. That’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion. But you seem to have a double standard going. You condemn her for doing things in the name of a cause you disdain while you’d praise someone else for doing the same thing in a cause you believe in.

 

[Lizzie]

gnjsdad:

.

.

I pointed out that George W Bush does the same thing all the time when he purports to speak for “the American people”.

Isn’t that what Presidents do?

 

[Fitz]

Cathlicrat:

Cindy has never spoken against America.

Cindy has said America is not worth dying for. She told her son that before he joined and then before he reuped. I think she has every right to be against the war, as you do also. I don’t approve of the circus because it sends the wrong message to the enemy.

I pray for Cindy and her family but I disagree with Cindy. Our country is worth dying for. My dad and his entire generation were patriotic and were in WWII. My husband served during Vietnam era. My daugher serves now. It is no wonder I disagree with Cindy. I would like our soldiers and sailors to be safe. I want the Iraqi people to be safe. This is encouragement for the enemy- the Islamofascist extremists.