Circumcision: is it moral?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mordocai
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
bpp85 said:
I’m not saying that FC(female circumcision) and MC (male circumcision) is the same, although the psychology behind it is the same(looks better, healthier, cleaner…)
There are 4types of female circumcision; type 1 is identical to male circumcision (type 1 FC is approved by Muslims)
WHO defines Type I female genital cutting as the removal or splitting of the clitoral hood. The clitoral hood is homologous to the foreskin of the penis which is removed during circumcision.
So what I was saying was if male circumcision reduces AIDS and is healthier shouldn’t type 1 of FC also have the same effect?

Peace be with you
Click to expand...
No offense but they are not identical, the anatomical differences are quite different and the effects are likewise different. One is a western, first world medical practice to this day because it is medically proven. The other is and always was a third world cultural practice that has no modern medical defense.
 
Melchior said:
Ummmm… no. One was a God ordained practice for the people of God up to and including Christ himself. The other is a pagan practice that is a mutilation, never commanded by God. That’s a huge difference.

Plus, despite all the claims otherwise, all the latest and leadind medical journals agree that medical circumcision prevent both uirnary tract infections and other persistent infections that an lead to types of cancer. The comparisons between circumcized and uncircumcized men and the health benefits are comprehensive and unambiguous. Anything else is non-medical opinion.

Religious circumcision was indeed done away with in the New Testament, it has been replaced my the better rite of baptism. But for medical reasons the debate was over a few years ago in the western world. Not only is it appropriate it is much healthier and more sanitary.

As will many things God commanded under the old covenant in His wisdom, there were definate health benefits as well. Eating Kosher in ancient times is another example.

So unless peoples opinions trump the New England Journal of medicine etc. Medical circumcision is a good thing.

And so is looking like daddy. Trust me, little boys are very interested in comparing themselves to daddy and sameness in this area is important.
Click to expand...
This is just funny 😃
Girls get 3x more urinary tract infections then boys.
Infections don’t lead to cancer, in fact some research shows that circumcision scar leads to penile cancer :confused:
And what if daddy has a tattoo, should daddy tattoo his son, then they will be “complete”
👍
And to my knowledge no medical association in the world recommends infant circumcision.:confused:
 
Sure said:
It is interesting that those who claim that circumcizing in order to “make him look like daddy” or other aesthetic reasons usually are opposed to female circumcision. You can’t have it both ways. If you circumcize for aesthetics, then it is moral for both sexes.
Click to expand...
:confused:

Sure you can have it both ways. Asthetically speaking, the male parts are much more visible and differences (circ. vs. not) than females.
 
Melchior said:
No offense but they are not identical, the anatomical differences are quite different and the effects are likewise different. One is a western, first world medical practice to this day because it is medically proven. The other is and always was a third world cultural practice that has no modern medical defense.
Click to expand...
Yes they are, clitoral hood protects clitoral glans, it’s the same thing, just because FC is not practiced in America doesn’t mean it’s not the same.
Example
"We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision "
islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=45528
 
bpp85 said:
This is just funny 😃
Girls get 3x more urinary tract infections then boys.
Infections don’t lead to cancer, in fact some research shows that circumcision scar leads to penile cancer :confused:
And what if daddy has a tattoo, should daddy tattoo his son, then they will be “complete”
👍
And to my knowledge no medical association in the world recommends infant circumcision.:confused:
Click to expand...
But it has nothing to do with female circumcision. You are citing debunked research against the most recent concensus. No offense but your knowledge is not current. And how uncircumcized boys get the infections is different that how girls do. And that the circumcized have lower cancer rates than the uncircumcized is good enough data for me.

And circumcision and tattoos are different. I have a tattoo and a 4 year old son. He is much more curious about how we are physically the same and how his sisters are different. I am not saying it is life or death but it is helpful. And I also have a tattoo and my son does not seem to want one. 😉 But as a son and a dad I am qualified and know for a fact that this physical sameness does matter.
 
bpp85 said:
Yes they are, clitoral hood protects clitoral glans, it’s the same thing, just because FC is not practiced in America doesn’t mean it’s not the same.
Example
"We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision "
islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=45528
Click to expand...
Forgive me, but you cannot be serious. They as different as a penis is from a vagina which I hope is obvious. This is anatomy 101.

Plus, why are you linking an Islamic website as proof of anything when the Islamic world is literally centuries behind the west in medical knowledge and advancement. When a rich Arab needs advanced medical treatment they go to Boston or New York not Basra.
 
Melchior said:
But it has nothing to do with female circumcision. You are citing debunked research against the most recent concensus. No offense but your knowledge is not current. And how uncircumcized boys get the infections is different that how girls do. And that the circumcized have lower cancer rates than the uncircumcized is good enough data for me.

And circumcision and tattoos are different. I have a tattoo and a 4 year old son. He is much more curious about how we are physically the same and how his sisters are different. I am not saying it is life or death but it is helpful. And I also have a tattoo and my son does not seem to want one. 😉 But as a son and a dad I am qualified and know for a fact that this physical sameness does matter.
Click to expand...
Then how can men in denmark(uncircumised) and in US (circumcised) have the same penile cancer rates :confused:
Your son is much more different from me then, cuz i was never interested in my dads penis 😃 lol
 
bpp85 said:
Then how can men in denmark(uncircumised) and in US (circumcised) have the same penile cancer rates :confused:
Your son is much more different from me then, cuz i was never interested in my dads penis 😃 lol
Click to expand...
They must eat more fish in Denmark 😛 . Actually do you have a link to the data? It could be genetic if it is true. Plus, it’s cold in Denmark and… never mind. 😉

Mel
 
The reason women get more urinary tract infections, even as little girls is their urethra is shorter, so they tend to get bladder infections quicker.

And if anyone has girls it is a fact but not sure if it is stated today, but bubble baths can lead a women to bladder infections and yeast infections.

Again good hygene is paramont to both sexes.
Even if they have been both circumcised.

When the vascetomy procedure got very popular, further studies researched the possiblity that this also leads to prostate cancer, / problems earlier than normal. I sort of agree with this theory but don’t know the validity of it.

I still think it is an immoral procedure, and should be a choice as an adult, although it is never moral, as is the tatoo, which is actually putting poison into your tissue, so you can blackball me on that if you like.
But it is just my opinion.
D.
 
bpp85 said:
first loool:p
cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_2X_What_are_the_risk_factors_for_penile_cancer_35.asp?sitearea=
ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13585.html
cirp.org/library/general/poland/

I’ll be sure to leave my son intact so he can look like me:o
Click to expand...
This is nice and balanced from the Mayo Clinic (and not 18 years like your NJM article). If you compare the benefits to the drawbacks, there is no comparison.

Those benefits are documented facts, btw, I can dig up more info if you like.

I am glad you are leaving your son in tact. Or you could be a really good daddy and get circumcized so he can benefit too. 😃
 
Melchior said:
This is nice and balanced from the Mayo Clinic (and not 18 years like your NJM article). If you compare the benefits to the drawbacks, there is no comparison.

Those benefits are documented facts, btw, I can dig up more info if you like.

I am glad you are leaving your son in tact. Or you could be a really good daddy and get circumcized so he can benefit too. 😃
Click to expand...
I’ve done enough research to know that circumcision is unnecessary, and I’ll let my future son to make the decision.🙂

I’m from Europe, if I get my son circumcised he will be in the minority, boys in the locker room will think his penis is butchered, and he will not be like me then :p;)
 
Melchior said:
This is nice and balanced from the Mayo Clinic (and not 18 years like your NJM article). If you compare the benefits to the drawbacks, there is no comparison.

Those benefits are documented facts, btw, I can dig up more info if you like.

I am glad you are leaving your son in tact. Or you could be a really good daddy and get circumcized so he can benefit too. 😃
Click to expand...
I would very much like to read the Mayo Clinic quote.

p.s. I just interviewed with the Mayo Clinic today they said it was 11degrees at time of the interview in Rochester MN. It is in the 60’s here in the valley in california.
 
bpp85 said:
I’ve done enough research to know that circumcision is unnecessary, and I’ll let my future son to make the decision.🙂

I’m from Europe, if I get my son circumcised he will be in the minority, boys in the locker room will think his penis is butchered, and he will not be like me then :p;)
Click to expand...
I don’t blame you. Culture matters. Were I a European I would likely do the same.

Mel
 
roymckenzie said:
I would very much like to read the Mayo Clinic quote.

p.s. I just interviewed with the Mayo Clinic today they said it was 11degrees at time of the interview in Rochester MN. It is in the 60’s here in the valley in california.
Click to expand...
I hope you get the job, btw! But brrrr! That is cold.

Mel
 
Melchior said:
I don’t blame you. Culture matters. Were I a European I would likely do the same.

Mel
Click to expand...
I was being sarcastic 😉
I don’t think we should just follow our cultures 🤷
Sorry about my english, it’s late here in Europe. i’m off to sleep.
Good night
Peace :blessyou:
 
bpp85 said:
I was being sarcastic 😉
I don’t think we should just follow our cultures 🤷
Sorry about my english, it’s late here in Europe. i’m off to sleep.
Good night
Peace :blessyou:
Click to expand...
Goodnight.

Your English is fine. Your sarcasm is okay too. 😉
 
Melchior said:
I don’t blame you. Culture matters. Were I a European I would likely do the same.

Mel
Click to expand...
I remember when I was young and my Mom (a very open, honest person) said “Many of your future friends won’t have as much skin on their “pp”, if that bothers you, we can take care of it to make you like them. Otherwise, I’d suggest leaving it as-is.”

I plan to do the same for my future son(s) (if any). I’m open and honest enough that I wouldn’t be uncomfortable asking them that. Then again, I read the hospital circumcision rate nationally in the United States is now approximately 58% compared to the 85% in 1984, so I doubt I will need to say anything if at all, since that’s close enough to 50-50.

She knew culture mattered, but she also knew that choice matters and to her that superseded culture - she always said “just because everyone else does it, doesn’t mean you have to”. She still does, except when I go outside without a jacket when it’s 40F or less - she then says, “Put on your darn jacket, or you’ll look like a fool!” - of which I say, “I’m 23. I’m comfortable, I don’t want to burn up!”

Just like this past week when I took off of work to visit her for Thanksgiving.

My two cents, again.

Have a great day! 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top