Citing growing interest in Traditional Latin Mass, Archbishop Chaput creates quasi-parish

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JimR-OCDS said:
I’m just sad that they feel the need to separate themselves from the general Catholic population.
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How are these people doing that? Do you condemn Byzantine, Melkite, and Syro-Malabar Catholics for ‘separating themselves’? No… it’s a celebration of heritage. Sometimes we Latins forget that we have heritage, too, and that it’s not a bad thing to be proud of it.
 
This seems like a good thread to add that a once monthly Latin Mass has been added at the Auriesville Shrine in the Albany, NY diocese. The reason given for the addition: high demand. This is now the fourth regularly scheduled TLM in my diocese. For the many years since the Ecclesia Dei indult the Albany Diocese has only had one dedicated licit EF Mass. In the past year though 3 more have been started, and there are occasional TLMs at other parishes for special events. The growth is slow, but the interest is there. Brick by brick.
 
Beginning in the 1960s a woman in Bayside, NY (Brooklyn Diocese), Veronica Lueken, reported apparitions of Our Lady, Our Lord and St. Therese. She attracted a following, which came to the grounds where the New York World’s Fair had been held in 1964. There there were alleged phenomena, claimed miraculous healings and a constant stream of new revelations, including a new title for Mary, “Our Lady of the Roses, Help of Mothers”. Eventually the Bayside apparitions were judged not supernatural by the Bishop of Brooklyn, a decision rejected by Veronica and her followers because neither Veronica nor any witnesses were interviewed. Whatever the defects of the decision process, it is nonetheless true that these “revelations” are demonstrably false. Veronica’s Lady is not only ignorant of English, but of Catholic terminology, history and theology.

https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/bayside.htm
 
Thank you sir, it is always a benefit to ones knowledge base when presented additional information.
 
Sorry, Janet. My failing eyesight. I did not intend to make you mad at me by mistakenly naming you as Jane. My bad.
God bless you!
Back to the Latin thing, if people want to attend a Mass said in Latin, I have nothing against that.
What I do fear is a complete throwing out of Vatican II changes.
Pope Benedict started the church in the direction of going back to having the Mass said in Latin. Thank goodness, he retired.
I do not want to go back to all Masses being said in Latin.
Many people on this thread love or are enthralled in Latin. I am happy for them.
I just want Masses to continue to be said in native languages. Not in Latin.
 
Why not just allow the Mass to be said in the native tongue of the country where the Mass is being celebrated.
No need for any translation or a dual Mass booklet?
Simple is always better.
Latin came to us as the Christian Church grew up in Rome.
But there is nowhere in the Bible or any actual doctrine that says the Mass or any other of God’s prayers must be said in Latin.
We here to praise God and to love and serve one another as brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ. We all can do that without saying it in Latin, right?
 
YourNameHere said:
Sorry, Janet. My failing eyesight. I did not intend to make you mad at me by mistakenly naming you as Jane. My bad.

God bless you!

Back to the Latin thing, if people want to attend a Mass said in Latin, I have nothing against that.

What I do fear is a complete throwing out of Vatican II changes.

Pope Benedict started the church in the direction of going back to having the Mass said in Latin. Thank goodness, he retired.

I do not want to go back to all Masses being said in Latin.

Many people on this thread love or are enthralled in Latin. I am happy for them.

I just want Masses to continue to be said in native languages. Not in Latin.
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No worries, way too minor of an issue to get mad about.
The thing is no one is espousing that everyone needs to go back to Latin mass everywhere. We are just glad that the option is available to those who wish to attend.
I doubt very much if the changes of Vatican II are going to just be tossed out. What i do think is currently happening is a better understanding of what the changes actually were rather than the knee jerk reaction that happened immediately after the Council met.

The Council set up the idea of having a choice.
 
Thanks Janet. Your words are well taken.
May the love and peace of Jesus Christ be with you and everyone else who commented on this thread today. Amen!
 
Slow pokes… We’ve had a thriving FSSP parish here for 17 or 18 years. 🤣
 
YourNameHere said:
Why not just allow the Mass to be said in the native tongue of the country where the Mass is being celebrated.
No need for any translation or a dual Mass booklet?
Simple is always better.
…there is nowhere in the Bible or any actual doctrine that says the Mass or any other of God’s prayers must be said in Latin.
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Nothing in the Bible says Mass has to be said in a special church building or room. But whenever possible, Catholics have tried to have a special place, specific for worship. Having a special language for worship is like that. (Eastern Catholics, and Orthodox, can relate to this).

The EF is more than “the OF, but in Latin”. It is different in many respects from Latin versions of the OF.

I think the OF gives one the feeling you know what’s going on, but not the reality. You may understand (think you understand) the words, but I suspect most Catholics don’t know what they mean. The EF makes explicitly clear the supernatural context of the Mass, a sense of direction, which is only implied in the OF.

I understand the OF better because I grew up with the EF, and occasionally attend it now.
 
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Augustinian said:
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babochka:
Slow pokes… We’ve had a thriving FSSP parish here for 17 or 18 years
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Pittsburgh had authorized Latin Masses continuously since 1989.
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The community here pre-dates the parish, of course. I don’t know when the Masses started, but I do know that I attended one in the mid-90s and they were well established then.
 
YourNameHere said:
What I do fear is a complete throwing out of Vatican II changes.
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Don’t worry. This is not going to happen, any more than we’re going to get rid of the Latin Mass now that the Popes are permitting it to be said.
Most likely the two options will just continue to co-exist, along with the Masses in Spanish and Polish and everything else.
 
Man, 2018 must be Philly’s year. The Eagles win the Super Bowl, Villanova Basketball wins March Madness, and now an EF quasi parish. 😀
God bless.
 
Before 1994, they were elsewhere, I think in Hazelwood?.

I think if they weren’t in the current location on North Side, the church on East St. would have been razed 20 years ago.
 
YourNameHere said:
Why not just allow the Mass to be said in the native tongue of the country where the Mass is being celebrated.
No need for any translation or a dual Mass booklet?
Simple is always better.
Latin came to us as the Christian Church grew up in Rome.
But there is nowhere in the Bible or any actual doctrine that says the Mass or any other of God’s prayers must be said in Latin.
We here to praise God and to love and serve one another as brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ. We all can do that without saying it in Latin, right?
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Nothing wrong with it per se, and the options should always be available. It’s just about originality, authenticity and tradition of its spirituality. Besides, ancient languages such as Greek, Latin, Aramaic, Hebrew, (even Turkish, Farsi, Egyptian and Arabic) are much more sophisticated, that’s why we have so many different Bible translations trying to deliver it properly, yet still imperfect due to various linguistic factors. I don’t really know how else to elaborate it further. But here are some examples of what I’m trying to explain:
  • A Gregorian chant will never sound as captivating in English or in any other language as it does in Latin (some have tried vernaculars, you should be able to find it online, truly such a shame)
  • A Shakespeare play will never have the same depth and effect, say, in German, Spanish or Latin, (not even in modern English in fact), as it does in old English
  • No offense to the legendary Louis Armstrong, a great voice, but try listening to Edith Piaf’s La Vie en Rose in English. Or how about Pavarotti singing Nessun Dorma in English/French/German??
I’m not personally suggesting a full time Latin, either. But I’m definitely for the option of having it on a regular Mass schedule in every church. Overall, the only thing I completely agree with your point is the absolute need for the homily being in the vernacular.
 
If people like the Latin mass, I think it should be offered to them, if there are priests around who can say it.

I see this is regional or that the demand is in specific localities. In other parts of the world, Latin mass is practically non-existence, where it is not being said and where mass is said in the local languages.

God bless.
 
Reuben_J said:
If people like the Latin mass, I think it should be offered to them, if there are priests around who can say it.
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I see your point, but on the other side of the ledger, is it really that great to divide people like this?

Here in the United States, people came from all over, and had different religious customs, even if they were all Catholic. But they basically merged together over time
 
Reuben_J said:
If people like the Latin mass, I think it should be offered to them, if there are priests around who can say it.

I see this is regional or that the demand is in specific localities. In other parts of the world, Latin mass is practically non-existence, where it is not being said and where mass is said in the local languages.

God bless.
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I can only speak for the U.S. and Turkey (my home country). In both countries the TLM is very rare, almost extinct in fact which is quite sad in my opinion, though i respect the Church’s decision on it. However, most people i come across with discussing the very same subject seem to like the idea of having it as an option in their parish. Hence the question, why not put it in the weekly/monthly schedule then?
 
I think you have answered that question. It is good insofar if there are people who want Latin mass. If the number is too few and no priest available who knows how to celebrate mass in Latin, then the suggestion to have one, especially if it is for the sake of sentimentalism, is impractical and makes no sense.
 
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