Cival marriage then priest blessing

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heff2005

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This is about a friend of mine.
She has received an annulment from her first marriage. Presently she is living with her fiancee. Both are baptized Catholics but he doesn’t practise and has a negative view of the 'church". She believes that if she went to ask a priest to assist them in hte Sacrament of marriage, that they wouldn’t be allowed since they live together. Then her fiance would have more negative things to build his case against the Church. She thinks it would be ok to obtain a cival marriage and then have a priest bless the marriage. This way she can come back to the Sacraments and feel at home again in the Church and he has not increased his negative views of the buracacy.
I have a whole different view and believe hers is wrong but I need proof to convince her.

If any one has the truth of the Catholic Church stand on this I will be very appreciative.

heff
 
I suspect the Church would take a dim view of a person undergoing a civil marriage as a bypass to the normal process. The Church would probably figure out the ruse and may still not consider them married and would ask them to live apart until they can be formally married within the Church.

It would be different, I think, for a person married in a civil marriage who was outside the Church when they married, many years ago, and then joined or reconciled with the Church after many years and then asked to have the marriage blessed.
 
If the two individuals are otherwise free to marry, I doubt that the fact that they currently live together would cause the local priest to refuse to witness their marriage. Some pre-marriage classes would be required. But there is one sure way to find out. Just ask the local priest.
 
In our premarriage classes I think my dh and I may have been the only couple not already living together! Some priests will marry cohabitating couples, some will require that they separate, or at least promise to abstain from sexual relations for some period prior to the wedding, some will only marry them in a small, private ceremony (priest, couple, and witnesses, only), and others will be very strict and refuse to marry them at all. It all depends on the priest. However, I don’t think your friend’s plan is airtight, because the “blessing” she is talking about is actually a convalidation, and, again, depending on the priest, could include any of the above scenarios listed for cohabitating couples. Her fiance’ may end up being more irritated at “the bureaucracy” than before. She just needs to contact her priest.

In Christ,

Ellen
 
How about: God is merciful. Ask Him, in the Sacrament of Confession, for forgiveness and grace.
 
Your friend is playing games. Her objective is to hide that her husband is not capable of receiving a sacrament (any type) because he is openly disobedient to the Church.
 
Texas_Roofer said:
Your friend is playing games. Her objective is to hide that her husband is not capable of receiving a sacrament (any type) because he is openly disobedient to the Church.
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TR, you have lost me here, unless I missed something.

My understanding is that the fiance is non-Catholc. If that be true, how can he be ‘openly disobedient’ to a community to which he owes no obedience?

It’s also my understanding that, religiously or civilly, the bride and groom, technically speaking, enact the marriage by their exchange of vows and the official, be s/he JP, priest, or whatever, is only the witness. In effect, they marry each other, and in this case it sounds as though they have already done so.

The Catholic Church, though, has always been rather strict about the requirement that a priest witness the vows in order for the marriage to be licit if at least one the partners is Catholic, and what exactly that entails with regard to the couple’s current living situation would, I imagine, by left to the judgment of the priest in question.

I think that JimG is correct. Ask a priest, staightforwardly, no ‘ruse’ or ‘game playing’ need be involved.
 
  1. I understand her to say they are both catholic
  2. A man and woman can validly marry but that marriage is not necessarily sacramental.
  3. Licit is on the ordinary, valid is on the couple.
  4. Since the husband is catholic and “has a negative view of the 'church”" he could not enter a valid sacramental marriage, his marriage would be natural not sacramental.
    As a catholic he wishing to marry a catholic he would be under canonical obligation
CHAPTER I.

PASTORAL CARE AND THOSE THINGS WHICH MUST PRECEDE THE CELEBRATION OF MARRIAGE

Can. 1063 Pastors of souls are obliged to take care that their ecclesiastical community offers the Christian faithful the assistance by which the matrimonial state is preserved in a Christian spirit and advances in perfection. This assistance must be offered especially by:

1/ preaching, catechesis adapted to minors, youth, and adults, and even the use of instruments of social communication, by which the Christian faithful are instructed about the meaning of Christian marriage and about the function of Christian spouses and parents;
2/ personal preparation to enter marriage, which disposes the spouses to the holiness and duties of their new state;

3/ a fruitful liturgical celebration of marriage which is to show that the spouses signify and share in the mystery of the unity and fruitful love between Christ and the Church;

4/ help offered to those who are married, so that faithfully preserving and protecting the conjugal covenant, they daily come to lead holier and fuller lives in their family.

Can. 1064 It is for the local ordinary to take care that such assistance is organized fit-tingly, after he has also heard men and women proven by experience and expertise if it seems opportune.

Can. 1065 §1. Catholics who have not yet received the sacrament of confirmation are to receive it before they are admitted to marriage if it can be done without grave inconvenience.

§2. To receive the sacrament of marriage fruitfully, spouses are urged especially to approach the sacraments of penance and of the Most Holy Eucharist.

Can. 1066 Before a marriage is celebrated, it must be evident that nothing stands in the way of its valid and licit celebration.

Can. 1067 The conference of bishops is to establish norms about the examination of spouses and about the marriage banns or other opportune means to accomplish the investigations necessary before marriage. After these norms have been diligently observed, the pastor can proceed to assist at the marriage.

Can. 1068 In danger of death and if other proofs cannot be obtained, the aYrmation of the contracting parties, even sworn if the case warrants it, that they are baptized and are prevented by no impediment is sufficient unless there are indications to the contrary.

Can. 1069 All the faithful are obliged to reveal any impediments they know about to the pastor or local ordinary before the celebration of the marriage.

Can. 1070 If someone other than the pastor who is to assist at marriage has conducted the investigations, the person is to notify the pastor about the results as soon as possible through an authentic document.

Can. 1071 §1. Except in a case of necessity, a person is not to assist without the permission of the local ordinary at:

1/ a marriage of transients;

2/ a marriage which cannot be recognized or celebrated according to the norm of civil law;

3/ a marriage of a person who is bound by natural obligations toward another party or children arising from a previous union;

4/ a marriage of a person who has notoriously rejected the Catholic faith;

5/ a marriage of a person who is under a censure;

6/ a marriage of a minor child when the parents are unaware or reasonably opposed;

7/ a marriage to be entered into through a proxy as mentioned in ⇒ can. 1105.

§2. The local ordinary is not to grant permission to assist at the marriage of a person who has notoriously rejected the Catholic faith unless the norms mentioned in ⇒ can. 1125 have been observed with necessary adaptation.

Can. 1072 Pastors of souls are to take care to dissuade youth from the celebration of marriage before the age at which a person usually enters marriage according to the accepted practices of the region.
 
Texas_Roofer said:
  1. I understand her to say they are both catholic
  2. A man and woman can validly marry but that marriage is not necessarily sacramental.
  3. Licit is on the ordinary, valid is on the couple.
  4. Since the husband is catholic and “has a negative view of the 'church”" he could not enter a valid sacramental marriage, his marriage would be natural not sacramental.
    As a catholic he wishing to marry a catholic he would be under canonical obligation
Click to expand...
  1. Fair enough, she did say that. So was Ronald Reagan. If he was baptized as an infant, but never made any profession of obedience or loyalty to the Church, inwardly or outwardly, after reaching the age of reason, I would not regard him as ‘disobedient’, but this is perhaps more a matter of semantics.
2 & 3. Agreed.
  1. “Having a negative view” is a broad term. I’m not sure that would necessarily prevent a valid sacramental union.
In any case, I’m sure we both wish the couple well, and urge them to seek guidance from a priest with no intent of misrepresenting their situation.

By the way, how’s the roofing business these days?
 
heff2005 said:
This is about a friend of mine.
She has received an annulment from her first marriage. Presently she is living with her fiancee. Both are baptized Catholics but he doesn’t practise and has a negative view of the 'church". She believes that if she went to ask a priest to assist them in hte Sacrament of marriage, that they wouldn’t be allowed since they live together. Then her fiance would have more negative things to build his case against the Church. She thinks it would be ok to obtain a cival marriage and then have a priest bless the marriage. This way she can come back to the Sacraments and feel at home again in the Church and he has not increased his negative views of the buracacy.
I have a whole different view and believe hers is wrong but I need proof to convince her.

If any one has the truth of the Catholic Church stand on this I will be very appreciative.

heff
Click to expand...
she needs to speak with her priest. she has wrong or mistaken ideas on many levels, and taking up with a man who is damaging her Catholic faith is not helping her at all. You can help her best by encouraging her to talk with the priest and get the correct information, so she is not just guessing the way she is now.
 
heff2005 said:
This is about a friend of mine.
She has received an annulment from her first marriage. Presently she is living with her fiancee. Both are baptized Catholics but he doesn’t practise and has a negative view of the 'church". She believes that if she went to ask a priest to assist them in hte Sacrament of marriage, that they wouldn’t be allowed since they live together. Then her fiance would have more negative things to build his case against the Church. She thinks it would be ok to obtain a cival marriage and then have a priest bless the marriage. This way she can come back to the Sacraments and feel at home again in the Church and he has not increased his negative views of the buracacy.
I have a whole different view and believe hers is wrong but I need proof to convince her.

If any one has the truth of the Catholic Church stand on this I will be very appreciative.

heff
Click to expand...
Your friends should ask herself some questions. Does her fiance really want to enter into marriage? Does he agree that marriage is a permanent commitment? Is he willing to have children and to space their births without using artificial means of birth control? Is he supportive or at least accepting of the fact that she and their children will be Catholic?

If the answer to any of these questions is ‘no’ and they enter into a civil marriage, it couldn’t be validated later unless he changes his mind. It would be a big mistake to enter into a marriage knowing this but hoping he will later change and the marriage can be made right.

Your friend needs to take a look at herself and what she really wants. Does she want to be married to her boyfriend more than she wants God’s friendship and love in her life? How long will she be ‘comfortable’ entering into an invalid marriage and living in mortal sin? It would also be a sin of presumption to do this and to assume that later it can be made right. Her first marriage was not a valid/sacramental marriage. Is she going to do the same thing again? Marriage is difficult; even more so if you shut God out of the relationship.

You say she wants to come back to the sacraments and feel at home in the church. Why? Does she love God? Does she want to do God’s will? Does she miss the Eucharist? She can come back to the sacraments now. Stop sleeping with her boyfriend and go to confession. That’s it. Now things are right between her and God.

She needs to have an honest talk with her boyfriend. We presume that they sincerely love each other. Does she trust him enough to be honest with him about how important it is for her to be Catholic, how important it is for her to be close to God and to receive the sacraments? (Is this important to her??) Even if he is totally against the church, does he love her enough to do what is necessary for her to do this? Of course, the first thing would be no more sex until marriage.:eek:

She and her boyfriend need to confront this head on! This is not a question of “Catholic rules”, it’s a matter of obeying God (trusting Him because He loves us and knows what is best for us). This is basic Christianity. The bible has a name for sexual activity outside of marriage. It’s called fornication. St. Paul puts it right up there with other sins like idolatry. If God is not a part of their relationship now, what’s the outlook for their marriage? This is a serious test of their relationship. Will their marriage be based on faith in God, self discipline, being willing to love and sacrifice for each other? Or on the idea promoted in our society that sex is always a good choice as long as you love and respect each other and take care not to become pregnant? Will they at least attempt to rise to this challenge?

This goes far beyond the question you asked. But this is a crucial time in the life of your friend and her fiance. She is trying to manipulate a situation to make it come out well for herself. She wants God in her life on her own terms (something we all probably try, but it never works). She doesn’t want to turn her boyfriend even more against the church, she says. But she’s not being honest with him either. It would be worth going through a marriage preparation course where they examine the issues she wants to smooth over.

If she turns this relationship over to God, He can bring good out of this situation for her and for her fiance. It may not be what she envisions, but it could be much better. She may feel that this is a risky thing to do. How much is she willing to trust God? Is she able to take even a baby step in the right direction? Like asking a priest about this?

May God’s perfect will be accomplished in the lives of your friend and her fiance.
 
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