civil ceremony before church wedding

[Phemie]

Incidentally, Mexico is another country that doesn’t recognize religoius ceremonies as valid for entry into the marriage log. In Mexico, because of its anticlerical laws, the couple must have a civil wedding.

This is also the case in France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Brazil, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Hungary, etc.

 

[puzzleannie]

Puzzleannie, I usually agree with you, but I"m not so certain about the part in bold. Many Catholics, living as “brother and sister” waiting on convalidation in a Church ceremony for whatever reason, would, according to what you wrote, be automatically excommunicated, ?

nothing in OP, until she qualified her post several pages later, indicated she was among those who did not plan to live together as husband and wife, I answered her generic question the way it was phrased, and I did qualify my answer to apply to those who do have for civil law reasons, go that route. she also does not state she resides in a country where this civil law applies. she is talking about defrauding the government in this country by pretending to be married before she is in fact married. that was Fr. Serpa’s take on the same question on AAA a couple of days ago.

 

[notsmart]

I am still wondering if its okay to break a rule when you have been informed its not allowed.
Knowing there is recourse later, should seem to only apply to those who had no knowledge their actions were in defiance.

I just can’t understand this.

 

[puzzleannie]

I am still wondering if its okay to break a rule when you have been informed its not allowed.
Knowing there is recourse later, should seem to only apply to those who had no knowledge their actions were in defiance.

I just can’t understand this.

in answer to this specific question, yes there is a canon law penalty for someone [Catholic] who knowingly disregards Catholic law on marriage and marries without regard to Catholic form for the sacrament, specifically, with contracting a civil marriage first without a grave reason and w/o permission (let’s leave foreign countries out of this discussion). Even if the couple does not intend to live as man and wife, they must have a grave reason to contract the civil marriage first, must have permission and must make plans for the Church wedding asap. it can’t just be a casual thing, like a destination wedding in Vegas with plans to “get married in the Church when we get around to it”.

 

[Richm601]

I am in the same boat. I was recently laid off and will be losing my insurance coverage. My fiance and I are scheduled to be married in a church in May 2009. We know our friends had to get a civil marriage a couple of weeks before the church ceremony and actually brought the licence to the church and had it get it signed by the bestman, maid of honor and the pastor…remember, this is all a couple of weeks before the actual church wedding ceremony. Now if we were to do thiscivil marraige 6 months before, my fiance and I would not plan to consider ourselves married (consumate the marriage, live together, anything of the sorts). Just finacially it would really help us out for insurance reasons.

Is this allowed?

 

[puzzleannie]

as has been stated several times, see your pastor if a difficulty arises with your wedding plans.

 

[Jolly_Joe]

What of the employer? Is it just fine and dandy to take thousands of dollars in benefits from him that are specifically for the families of employees while telling everyone you aren’t really married?

If you aren’t really married, you aren’t entitled to benefits.

Why not skip the big wedding and save thousands of dollars? Then you can either afford your health care until you decide to get married or you can get married in more than name only now?

Seems to me somewhere in there the current plan defrauds someone. If you aren’t married, the employer shouldn’t pay your health care. It’s not a benefit the employee can just assign to anyone he wants.

How about you ask the employer what he thinks of the proposed arrangement since he’s basically going to pay for everything?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Personally, I’d just see the priest, do the preparation and get married with two witnesses. Skip the party. I know couples who’ve done that and had the big party on their 25th anniversary.

:thumbsup:This gets my vote. Now, I may be wrong as to intent, but why wait 14 months, simply to wear a big white dress and have an expensive party? Wait the required number of months by the diocese, marry in the Church simply, have a simple celebration and save the money for a down payment on a house or something else worth the while.

 

[penpal49]

:why wait 14 months, simply to wear a big white dress and have an expensive party? Wait the required number of months by the diocese, marry in the Church simply, have a simple celebration and save the money for a down payment on a house or something else worth the while.

If only! We are not having a big expensive wedding. The reason we have to wait so long is that he’s going to be deployed. Had we started preparations in august, then the “required number of months” would have put us smack dab in his deployment. the “14 months” was not for an expensive ceremony, but that my groom would actually be here!

The reason we had been considering the civil ceremony was that if the church preparation time had allowed us to get married before his deployment we would have (thereby getting the benefits) At the time i hadn’t seen the difference. We want to be married, a civil ceremony would provide financial benefits and we wouldn’t consumate the marriage until the sacrament was completed.

Since you all aided in my decision, you should know that we didn’t have the civil ceremony, and won’t. If only the preparation was four months or less! I’d be getting married this month instead of having to wait 'til late next year : (

 

[notsmart]

If only! We are not having a big expensive wedding. The reason we have to wait so long is that he’s going to be deployed. Had we started preparations in august, then the “required number of months” would have put us smack dab in his deployment. the “14 months” was not for an expensive ceremony, but that my groom would actually be here!

The reason we had been considering the civil ceremony was that if the church preparation time had allowed us to get married before his deployment we would have (thereby getting the benefits) At the time i hadn’t seen the difference. We want to be married, a civil ceremony would provide financial benefits and we wouldn’t consumate the marriage until the sacrament was completed.

Since you all aided in my decision, you should know that we didn’t have the civil ceremony, and won’t. If only the preparation was four months or less! I’d be getting married this month instead of having to wait 'til late next year : (

Is there a catholic priest where he is deployed? Can you get married if you fly out to where he is?
Just wondering about that- not suggesting it. Your soon to be husband may not like that idea!
I was thinking out loud really.

Praying for you.

Monica

 

[aodvg]

In situations like that what was used in the Church before was a betrothal that had both civil and canonical value and was a solemn promise of marriage.

The problem is that with the new code of canon law, betrothal has virtually lost all canonical value, at least in the USA and a betrothal is something that civil authorities won’t recognize for spousal benefits.

If there is going to be a long period of separation you should talk to your priest and try to sort things out.

A civil marriage is not per se a sinful act. In fact the Church does not forbid it, in some countries is even a pre-requisite for the sacrament. What the Church strictly forbids is getting married in a non-catholic religious ceremony.

Of course that if you get a civil ceremony you should not consider yourselves husband and wife and you should not engange in premarital relations and of course you should not intend to have the civil ceremony as a sort of replacement for the sacrament, given your particular situation I think it should be allowed.

However you should receive the sacrament as soon as possible. I am not your priest and I donnt know your or know all the details of your situation so I can’t judge your particular situation but I think any reasonable priest with some minimum understanding of canon law should be able to help you and give you competent advice.

 

[jsaldar]

If you were married civilly, you would be unable to consummate the marriage until it was blessed by a Catholic priest. Getting married outside of the church is a mortal sin, and you’d have to go to confession.

You really, really should wait and have it done properly in the church.

Very well put Jenny Z. I agree, this is a good way of looking at it.