Civil Law

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McatholicN

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It’s my understanding that transgression of civil law = sin.

I find this a bit troubling considering the multitude of strange and difficult-to-follow laws there are. As I brought up in the past, setting up a lemonade stand, of all things! How can I write a paper or even SAY something without breaking some obscure copyright law? And in cases of doubt, which are omnipresent in civil law, how should one act? “When in doubt, don’t”? And just because it isn’t enforced (even AT ALL) doesn’t mean breaking it is any less breaking of the law, and therefore sinful. There’s probably laws (that I’ve broken, most likely) that require you to turn yourself in and serve a jail sentence.

I’m really frustrated about this. I’d like some clarity on the issue.
 
Would these be breaking the law, and therefore sinful?
  • Telling someone something you learned that is not common knowledge (which is by no means a clearly defined term).
  • Using Google under the age of 18.
  • Getting money for mowing a lawn without reporting it to the government.
  • Watching an online video with content or music that was not posted exactly under the legal process.
Just think of all the laws out there!
 
McatholicN said:
Would these be breaking the law, and therefore sinful?
  • Telling someone something you learned that is not common knowledge (which is by no means a clearly defined term).
  • Using Google under the age of 18.
  • Getting money for mowing a lawn without reporting it to the government.
  • Watching an online video with content or music that was not posted exactly under the legal process.
Just think of all the laws out there!
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Have you been to talk to a priest yet like many forum members have advised you to do about your scrupulosity?? Your priest is the one to guide you on this, not us!
 
This question applies to everyone. I asked it because I was hoping for responses. Though I appreciate your concern, I wanted to get (name removed by moderator)ut from the forums here. I am in the process of trying to get a regular confessor.
 
Civil Law should be based entirely on Divine/Natural Laws.
All Divine/Natural Laws should be enshrined in Civil Law.

As to one issue you raised, that of laws requiring you to turn yourself in for infractions,
NO ONE (at least in the USA) IS REQUIRED, AT ALL, TO INCRIMINATE THEMSELVES.

And for those of us Catholics and other Christians who zealously “report” people
to the authorities for real or suspected infractions,
we should remember that if Divine and Natural Laws WERE all enshrined in civil law,
then it is safe to say that tens of millions of American Christians would be incarcerated for past infractions that they have since repented of and been forgiven by Christ FOR.
I find this whole issue very complex and complicated.
Half the people I knew in high school and college regularly broke the nation’s
illegal drug laws, for example. Some of them are very good Christians now.
Should they be turned in and forced to serve time in a violent, sodomy-filled, racist,
hate-filled, demon-infested, rape-filled prison environment? I think not.
On the other hand,
SOME offenders are DANGEROUS people, aggressive and predatory, who rob
people of their bank accounts (especially through predatory online “phishing” and other dastardly deeds), hold people up at gunpoint, perform home invasions, attack the elderly and helpless, rape people, and kill people. Should such people be reported?
I think so, for common sense’s sake and for the safety of innocent people.
 
FWIF.

Epikeia.

And then consider God’s will, the first legislator, the purpose of law itself (for the good), and that it be for your sanctification, rather than condemnation.
 
- Getting money for mowing a lawn without reporting it to the government.

I’ll hazard a guess at answering this one.

No, in nearly every case, this would not be breaking the Law.
First of all, you are not even required to file an Income Tax Return
unless you make over, I think, $2,400 in a given year.
If you mowed a bunch of lawns, but made LESS than that, in total,
you would not be required to report it.

However, IF you have a landscaping business, and doing lawns was part
of your regular business, and let’s say your gross income was $53,000 in a given year.
And you mowed a (really big) lawn, and charged $600 for it,
then I would have to say, YES, you NEED to report that $600 income.
 
My main concern is the copyright issue. It’s so confusing, and I do so much that requires information. How am I supposed to never break copyright law in even the slightest way?

Basically, does breaking civil law = breaking moral law?
 
McatholicN said:
My main concern is the copyright issue. It’s so confusing, and I do so much that requires information. How am I supposed to never break copyright law in even the slightest way?

Basically, does breaking civil law = breaking moral law?
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Yes breaking civil law is a sin. Jesus said that all authority comes from God. Legitimate authority, like legislatures, are given authority to govern those in their jurisdiction.
10Pilate therefore said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?” 11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.” (John (RSV) 19)
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McatholicN said:
My main concern is the copyright issue. It’s so confusing, and I do so much that requires information. How am I supposed to never break copyright law in even the slightest way?

Basically, does breaking civil law = breaking moral law?
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Why do you think copy right laws are confusing. From a consumer’s point of view, it is quite simply. Don’t duplicate that which you have no right to duplicate.
 
davidv said:
Why do you think copy right laws are confusing. From a consumer’s point of view, it is quite simply. Don’t duplicate that which you have no right to duplicate.
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Bibliographies would be rather pointless if you can’t even get information or ideas from sources without breaking copyright. It’s just frustrating sometimes. I often want to use maps, pictures, information, etc. from sources that are copyrighted, so I don’t think I’m allowed do anything with them, even for private use.
 
1ke said:
You are scrupulous and need the help of your priest.
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Though you may be right, it is possible that he is just young and his conscience hasn’t been formed properly to better understand. He needs education gained from participating in more advanced training about his/her faith. That would most certainly help. I understand from where he’s coming. If he had any mixed up rearing in the faith, then he’s probably confused.

Have faith my friend. God is not waiting with a hammer to crush you. Not all laws are just. Even just laws broken aren’t the path to hell. Laws are made for the lawless. Just do the best you can, but don’t fret so much over the issue. A person stealing bread to support life because they have no means of obtaining food, would not be detrimental to their soul. I’ll keep it simple and post.
 
Yes, civil rulers have the right from God to make laws for the common good.
Contrary to the opinions of some,
that does NOT give civil rulers “carte blanche” to make ANY LAWS they PLEASE
nor to inflict any punishments they PLEASE. All people, including and especially
civil rulers, are subject to the commands of God, including his commands regarding mercy, whether they like it or not, whether they acknowledge it or not.
Still, we are to strive to obey all just civil laws.
It is also true, as the above poster said, that NOT ALL LAWS are just.
For example, it is against the law in some places
to say that homosexual behaviour is sinful. It is even declared a “hate crime” to say so.
Such a law is an abomination in the eyes of God,
and ANYONE who in any way upholds it, enforces it, or punishes people for violating it,
is in more trouble with God than they have ever dreamed even possible.
So, to Catholics who are police officers or prosecutors, would you dare uphold such a wicked law in order to keep your job, using the excuse, “I was only following orders” ???
How many Catholic and other Christian officers have participated in arresting proLifers for peacefully picketing abortion clinics and gay-rights rallies? Do they think they will get away with such treason against God’s people merely because they are just doing their jobs?

As for violating copyright laws, it really does seem, friend, that you may be overly-scrupulous. Please discuss this with your priest, and may God richly bless you.
 
McatholicN said:
My main concern is the copyright issue. It’s so confusing, and I do so much that requires information. How am I supposed to never break copyright law in even the slightest way?
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You don’t understand copyright law. You have an exaggerated idea of what it is and that you are transgressing it all the time. This is scrupulosity at work, not reality.
McatholicN said:
Basically, does breaking civil law = breaking moral law?
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Sometimes. Not always.
 
McatholicN said:
Bibliographies would be rather pointless if you can’t even get information or ideas from sources without breaking copyright. It’s just frustrating sometimes. I often want to use maps, pictures, information, etc. from sources that are copyrighted, so I don’t think I’m allowed do anything with them, even for private use.
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You can always quote, but always give reference.

Give me a good example of what you mean so that I can help you through the steps of working with copyright material.
 
Dear Monica,

I wonder if you’ve ever considered just not worrying about sin so much and instead focusing on God’s love. I’ve read a number of your posts and they concern me. Our focus should be on love, not sin. I’ve experienced a little bit of what I see in your posts and focusing on Christ’s love seems to be helping me a lot. Really, try it. You will feel better and your spiritual life will be healthier.
 
1ke said:
You don’t understand copyright law. You have an exaggerated idea of what it is and that you are transgressing it all the time. This is scrupulosity at work, not reality.
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What is copyright law, then?
 
For example, on my debate team at my school, we “cut cards”, which means copy-and-pasting from articles (not much unlike the “News” section here at CAF, unless I’m mistaken) and using them in our debates. Same with school assignments and textbooks. Would these actions be sinful?
 
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