Civil marriage and living "as brother and sister"

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I am in a civil marriage and it is both my husband and my second marriage. I converted to Catholicism when I was 20 (after my 1st marriage but before my 2nd). While I have always been strong in my faith, I have lacked in practicing it more often than not. For the past year or so however, I have been feeling strongly called to be closer in my relationship with God and have been attending Mass regularly (though for obvious reasons have not been participating in confession or communion). I want to speak with a priest about getting an annulment and having my marriage convalidated. My husband is not Catholic and finds it somewhat insulting that our marriage is not considered valid. He does believe in marriage being a lasting bond but due to the circumstances surrounding both of our first marriages and the reasons as to why we married our first partners to begin with, that those were in fact the invalid ones. I agree with this, but until it has been deemed by the church we are still living in sin. Anyway, I want to have our marriage convalidated and until that point in time begin having a celibate relationship with my husband. We have a 4 year old son, so simply moving out until that time is not an option and it is important to me that my son have both his mother and his father together. My husband is not one of those men who think sex is everything, but he does feel it is an important aspect of marriage. Any advice on how to get him on board with this without causing a lot of issues in my marriage? I know he would not want to divorce me over something like this, but I know these annulments can take years and I see there being some issues over us not having sex for that long, it’s not like this will only be for a few months or something. What should I do if he doesn’t agree to get an annulment for his marriage? I realize all of this should have been done before we got married, but at the time we married I thought God knew our situation and understood so it was ok. I know it is wrong to assume that, but it was my mindset at the time. Any advice would be great.
 
This is really something that you should discuss with your pastor. He can guide you on how to handle things with your husband.
 
Thank you for your response. My pastor is out of town at the moment and won’t be back until the 30th. The secretary said she’ll have him call to make an appointment when he gets back. The guilt of the situation is just really weighing on me right now. I used to dread going to confession, now I’d give anything to go. I suppose I’ll just have to look at it as all good things come to those who wait for now. :o
 
It’s going to be hard work, but you can do it. Don’t get discouraged. Since your pastor won’t be back for ten days, it would be a great time to pray a novena to Our Lady asking her intercession. God bless you.
 
First, I am humbled by your faithful integrity to the Lord and His Church…recognizing some things that were/are not quite right in your life…but having the humility and courage to face the truth of your situation. God the Holy Spirit is calling you in the Spirit of Truth (Christ is Truth Himself)…and His Holy Spirit will guide you and sustain you through this…I am convinced…no doubt about it.

Second…Ike has given you the only real answer…your pastor or a priest-spiritual adviser (if you can get one would also be a great help)…but the pastor is your “go-to-guy” for your Canon law options and sacrament participation options. He has to determine if you live as “brother and sister” so you can receive the sacraments…will that cause scandal in the parish…likely not, but he has to make that pastoral decision.

Third…just some thoughts…conjugal relations is a normal obligation of marriage (barring any extraordinary situations/problems)…so opting for celibacy as a one-sided decision is problematic…and with a child in your second “marriage”…I am sure that the Church does not want to see that child raised in a “civil divorced marriage” situation. That being said…and you recognizing that conjugal relations are not licit (so you are wanting to live as brother and sister)…until after an Tribunal examination and Decree of Nullity for you and your "spouse’"s first marriages…you have to get guidance on the “sin issue” (relations with someone who is not your spouse by Church Law)…or a “justice issue” re: conjugal rights/duties…that you and your “spouse” have to consider? This is a key part of your Pastor’s pastoral guidance that you need to get soonest.

Lastly, …as a case situation…my former pastor’s mother was paralyzed after an accident…she and her husband had 5 children before the accident…but now she could no longer have conjugal relations…and her husband had to accept this and remain chaste in his Marriage vows…accepting that his marriage would be without the conjugal act or sexual relations (a celibate marriage). As an man in his mid forties…he had a real sacrifice/cross to carry…and he did so with God’s grace, frequent assistance at the Mass and reception of the sacraments, daily rosary and always praying novenas. My point is that we married (guys) can feel “woe is me” when our wives cannot or do not want to practice conjugal relations as we expect…want…or have in the past…and we forget that some men are carrying this “sacrificial cross” based on extraordinary circumstances…(if I can refer to it as such, based on what a normal healthy libido desires/expects in a marriage)… this is heroic sacrificial love…very Christ centered…with great charity for their spouse’s situation…clearly not easy…but clearly heroic virtue…IMHO.

Pax Christi
 
An excellent letter…here is an excerpt…
PASTORAL MINISTRY TO THE DIVORCED AND REMARRIED
Bishop Rene H. Gracida, D. D.
Bishop of Corpus Christi May 22, 1994
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What about receiving Holy Communion? Taking into account the discussion at the 1980 Synod of Bishops,** Pope John Paul II** clearly answered this question by saying:
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"…the Church reaffirms her practice, which is based upon Sacred Scripture, of not admitting to Eucharistic Communion divorced persons who have remarried. They are unable to be admitted thereto from the fact that their state and condition of life objectively contradict that union of love between Christ and the Church which is signified and effected by the Eucharist…Reconciliation in the sacrament of Penance, which would open the way to the Eucharist, can only be granted to those who, repenting of having broken the sign of the Covenant and of fidelity to Christ, are sincerely ready to undertake a way of life that is no longer in contradiction to the indissolubility of marriage. This means in practice, that when, for serious reasons, such as for example the children’s upbringing, a man and a woman cannot satisfy the obligation to separate, they "take on themselves the duty to live in complete continence, that is, by abstinence from the acts proper to married couples." [8]
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To many, that way of life will sound impossible and no doubt it would be for men and women acting on their own, unaided by God’s grace. But with God’s grace, a Christian can do everything God asks.[9] So, to you I offer this saving truth: that way of life certainly can be achieved by any couple who repent their past sins, constantly call on God for needed help, and do their very best to live blamelessly in God’s sight. Even those who do not choose to make that commitment, but who accept the truth about their situation, should continue to hope for salvation. The Church prays for them and trusts that the Lord will be ready to receive them with tender mercy whenever they are ready to avail themselves of reconciliation in the sacrament of Penance and amend their lives.
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ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/DIVORCE.HTM
 
Thank you for your replies!

PattiDay: It does seem like a perfect time for a novena! Wonderful advice and I will be starting tonight!

Lancer: Very good points. Hopefully I will be able to meet with Father shortly after his return and he can guide me in the appropriate actions to take. Though I realized he would have difficulty in this, I didn’t even think about the “justice issue” especially with him being Baptist and feeling that we are not in a state of sin. Taking from your example though about the woman who was in the accident, it may do well to explain it to him as I have a spiritual illness that must be taken care of.
 
Lancer said:
Lastly, …as a case situation…my former pastor’s mother was paralyzed after an accident…she and her husband had 5 children before the accident…but now she could no longer have conjugal relations…and her husband had to accept this and remain chaste in his Marriage vows…accepting that his marriage would be without the conjugal act or sexual relations (a celibate marriage). As an man in his mid forties…he had a real sacrifice/cross to carry…and he did so with God’s grace, frequent assistance at the Mass and reception of the sacraments, daily rosary and always praying novenas.
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While this is an inspirational story, the OP’s situation is significantly different. In the story you related, the wife was rendered physically unable to have sexual relations. Her husband, a Catholic, acknowledged their situation as his cross to bear. (As an aside, I bet the OP’s husband would also bear this cross if face with this situation.)

In the OP’s situation, she has chosen to withhold sexual relations from her husband due to a religious epiphany. Her non-Catholic husband, understandably, is most likely going to have a problem with this. While I can respect the OP’s desire to get right with the Church, as in most cases where one person unilaterally decides to change the rules in an ongoing marriage, I predict a very rocky road ahead for the OP.
 
The situation the OP describes is surely difficult. But I wonder how much more difficult it would be in the event that the Church determines there is no basis for an annulment of her first marriage? I don’t understand the rules that guide the decisions of church marriage tribunals, but the fact of divorce plus a sincere regret that the subject marriage ever occurred, does not (as I understand) get you across the line.

What then for the OP? A permanent separation / divorce from her present husband? That would seem to be a crazy outcome…and entirely incomprehensible (I should think) to the current husband.
 
Rau said:
The situation the OP describes is surely difficult. But I wonder how much more difficult it would be in the event that the Church determines there is no basis for an annulment of her first marriage? I don’t understand the rules that guide the decisions of church marriage tribunals, but the fact of divorce plus a sincere regret that the subject marriage ever occurred, does not (as I understand) get you across the line.
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The fact that her first marriage was ended before she was out of her teens suggests she may have lacked sufficient maturity for that marriage to be valid, but that’s an issue to explore with her priest. But it is not only her first marriage that would need to be nullified, since her current civil husband also had a prior marriage.

Indeed, if annulments are not granted, this is a difficult situation. The best option is to pursue annulments as quickly as is possible and determine their current standing.
 
I am also divorced, remarried, and waiting on annulment. I am positive that my first marriage was not valid for multiple reasons and my priest agrees. My husband was raised Catholic and had recently returned to the Church after 20 years. I am converting.

After applying for annulment, I was informed I could continue to move forward in my conversion process, receive the Sacraments, etc. as long as my husband and I lived as brother and sister. While I know that sex is not everything, I don’t think my marriage would fare well without it. We’ve been married for over 10 years and have noticed how much all aspects of our relationship suffer when we aren’t sharing physical intimacy. We also have children, I am a stay at home mom, and there is no way we could financially swing living apart. So, we are continuing marital relations as normal and praying for a speedy annulment. My hats off to anyone who can hack a year or more living in the same home and not having relations or who can manage to separate temporarily until annulments are granted.

ComingHome, have you explained to your husband how much annulment of both previous marriages means to you and how much convalidation means to you? Hopefully, even if he does think its all silly, he’ll be willing to do it for your sake.
 
There is a bigger problem here I’m surprised no one has mentioned. If your husband doesn’t think marriage is a lasting thing, then there’s no reason to believe he can contract a valid marriage at all. He would lack the requisite intentions to contract one.
 
So, I spoke with my husband about all of this last night when he came home from work. He has agreed to try for an annulment on his first marriage, but completely disagrees on living as brother and sister until it is finalized. He would, of course, be more than understanding if it were a physical reason for me not being able to be physical with him, but because he completely disagrees with us being in sin right now he thinks stopping this aspect of our marriage is ridiculous. I am hoping when we meet with Father that he will be able to offer more advice on this. I feel assured our first marriages will be annulled because of the circumstances surrounding them before, during, and after they were contracted, but since I am not on the tribunal I cannot say that with complete accuracy so I am simply praying for a good outcome. I do not want to get into too much detail, I just ask that you trust there were SEVERAL key elements to a valid marriage that were missing on both our parts.

W85: My husband does believe marriage is a lasting bond. He just also knows the circumstances of his first marriage and knows that with those circumstances there is no way it was the type of marriage that would be bound by God.
 
ComingHome1 said:
So, I spoke with my husband about all of this last night when he came home from work. He has agreed to try for an annulment on his first marriage, but completely disagrees on living as brother and sister until it is finalized. He would, of course, be more than understanding if it were a physical reason for me not being able to be physical with him, but because he completely disagrees with us being in sin right now he thinks stopping this aspect of our marriage is ridiculous. I am hoping when we meet with Father that he will be able to offer more advice on this. I feel assured our first marriages will be annulled because of the circumstances surrounding them before, during, and after they were contracted, but since I am not on the tribunal I cannot say that with complete accuracy so I am simply praying for a good outcome. I do not want to get into too much detail, I just ask that you trust there were SEVERAL key elements to a valid marriage that were missing on both our parts.
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This is a difficult situation and I can totally appreciate your husbands feelings on this. The rules of the game have been changed on him mid-course, and even if it’s right, from his perspective it’s not fair.

Then again, there’s still the reality that until annulments are granted, it’s presumptuous to continue as husband and wife. If either of your marriages are later found to be valid (and until the tribunal rules, the presumption is in favour of those marriages), any sexual relations you have now would be objectively adulterous.

I hope your priest can provide good advice on this, and I’ll pray for a good outcome.
 
It’s good to hear that your husband is willing to pursue the necessary annulments with you, and I’m sure your priest will give you both good advice on how to move forward with this. I just want to add a caution to one thing you said, your first marriages can only be annulled because of circumstances surrounding them when they were contracted, what happens after the marriage does not affect the validity if the marriage was valid at the time it was contracted.
ComingHome1 said:
I feel assured our first marriages will be annulled because of the circumstances surrounding them before, during, and after they were contracted, but since I am not on the tribunal I cannot say that with complete accuracy so I am simply praying for a good outcome. I do not want to get into too much detail, I just ask that you trust there were SEVERAL key elements to a valid marriage that were missing on both our parts.
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May everything work out the way you hope it will.
 
Just an update in case anyone else who reads this thread has the same issue: My husband and I talked more about this again last night and I think everything would have gone smoother had I reworded things to begin with. When we began these discussions I was telling “according to the church we aren’t in a valid marriage so we should not be intimate with each other until after the annulments.” This gave him the impression that I was ok with us continuing a physical relationship but the church wasn’t. After discussing it again last night, I was explaining that I, personally, was concerned about our souls if we continued before our marriage is convalidated. This put a whole new spin on things for him. In his mind previously, it was the church having a problem with it and since he is not Catholic he felt is was just random people saying how we should live our lives. Now that he sees my conscience is the one with the issue, he is on board with abstaining as he never wants me to do anything I’m uncomfortable with. Especially in a subject like this. We are both aware there is still the possibility of not getting the annulments, but for now we are just praying for a favorable outcome and if it doesn’t happen we will cross that bridge when we get there. For now, we will use this time to find other ways of expressing our love for one another. Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut and advice!
 
Sounds like this man is very understanding and supportive. I’m glad this went well for you.

Yes, keep up your prayers as you pursue this, and I’ll remember you in my prayers.
 
ComingHome1 said:
I am in a civil marriage and it is both my husband and my second marriage. I converted to Catholicism when I was 20 (after my 1st marriage but before my 2nd). While I have always been strong in my faith, I have lacked in practicing it more often than not. For the past year or so however, I have been feeling strongly called to be closer in my relationship with God and have been attending Mass regularly (though for obvious reasons have not been participating in confession or communion). I want to speak with a priest about getting an annulment and having my marriage convalidated. My husband is not Catholic and finds it somewhat insulting that our marriage is not considered valid. He does believe in marriage being a lasting bond but due to the circumstances surrounding both of our first marriages and the reasons as to why we married our first partners to begin with, that those were in fact the invalid ones. I agree with this, but until it has been deemed by the church we are still living in sin. Anyway, I want to have our marriage convalidated and until that point in time begin having a celibate relationship with my husband. We have a 4 year old son, so simply moving out until that time is not an option and it is important to me that my son have both his mother and his father together. My husband is not one of those men who think sex is everything, but he does feel it is an important aspect of marriage. Any advice on how to get him on board with this without causing a lot of issues in my marriage? I know he would not want to divorce me over something like this, but I know these annulments can take years and I see there being some issues over us not having sex for that long, it’s not like this will only be for a few months or something. What should I do if he doesn’t agree to get an annulment for his marriage? I realize all of this should have been done before we got married, but at the time we married I thought God knew our situation and understood so it was ok. I know it is wrong to assume that, but it was my mindset at the time. Any advice would be great.
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If he really loves you I would think he would do it to make you happy and feel completely comfortable about the relationship. Does he understand how much it means to you?
 
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