Civil Marriage Performed by Catholic Judge

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STMgtd

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Perhaps this is in the wrong forum, but we’ll see. First I’ll set the stage, then I’ll ask the question.

I’m a county judge who has authority to officiate at civil marriage ceremonies. Generally, I don’t. However, there’s a significant possibility that I’ll be asked to officiate my Goddaughter’s marriage ceremony.

Sometime after baptism, my brother left the Catholic Church to worship with his protestant wife. (I understand you can’t “leave” the Church, you have to demand it in writing. There’s always a “welcome back” mat at the front door.) Anyway, if I choose to officiate it’ll be for the reason that I will be able, I hope, to gently involve more Catholicism, or Christianity, than the next guy. I’m looking for ideas that might help interest my Goddaughter and her future husband in returning, or at least make sure the marriage ceremony is more Christian than civil.

Sure, there’ll be prayer, and a reference to my pride at being her Catholic Godfather (she was always told another couple were Godparents, but she knows the truth of it). I’m thinking of things like sealing their marriage with a cross on the forehead with Holy Water, blessed by my parish priest if he will (along with appropriate commentary linking it with the gift of baptism or something).

Someone might talk me out of it, maybe I’ll talk myself out of it. Meanwhile, I’ll appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,
G
 
Sure, but it’s a new topic today. I’ll get around to that before I commit to anything. Still looking for ideas in the meantime . . .
 
Thank you, thistle. I know it wouldn’t be sacramental, but that’s the benchmark I’m working from. It certainly would be legal, and assumed legitimate by the Church unless and until challenged in an annulment petition, I believe.

If I do it, I would want it to be as close to a religious marriage ceremony as possible without pretending to have that kind of authority, and without going too far to the point of turning them away. A delicate balance. I’d prefer something that might interest her and others in the Catholic faith.
 
STMgtd said:
and assumed legitimate by the Church unless and until challenged in an annulment petition, I believe.
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No, this is not correct. There is no putative marriage and no presumption of validity when a Catholic marries outside the Church without dispensation.
STMgtd said:
However, there’s a significant possibility that I’ll be asked to officiate my Goddaughter’s marriage ceremony.
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A Catholic layperson cannot witness the marriage of a Catholic unless they are designated by the Church to do so. That would be in the context of a Catholic marriage, one where the bride and groom have approached the Church for marriage.

Also, a Catholic should not officiate at an invalid marriage.
 
STMgtd said:
I’m looking for ideas that might help interest my Goddaughter and her future husband in returning, or
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Returning to what? I have the impression that your niece and her fiancé are not Catholic. Do they not consider themselves Christians either?
 
What does “a Catholic should not officiate at an invalid marriage” mean?
 
1ke said:
A Catholic layperson cannot witness the marriage of a Catholic unless they are designated by the Church to do so. That would be in the context of a Catholic marriage, one where the bride and groom have approached the Church for marriage.

Also, a Catholic should not officiate at an invalid marriage.
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Still, a Catholic who is a civil official whose duties include presiding over civil marriages may be limited in whether or not he or she can recuse themselves from officiating at a civil marriage as a matter of conscience.
STMgtd said:
If I do it, I would want it to be as close to a religious marriage ceremony as possible without pretending to have that kind of authority, and without going too far to the point of turning them away. A delicate balance. I’d prefer something that might interest her and others in the Catholic faith.
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Nope. What you may not do is to preside in the quasi-religious capacity. Your job allows you to officiate at civil weddings. Period. You are not a member of the clergy and you cannot present yourself as a member of the clergy.

I would go to the point of turning them away. They are asking you to preside over a marriage that suffers from a defect in form. Especially as a godparent, you cannot do that unless you are forced to do it by reason of your civil duty. If you do it, you have to stick with what you are forced to do and not pretend that you are actually presiding over a real Catholic marriage.
 
1Lord1Faith said:
Returning to what? I have the impression that your niece and her fiancé are not Catholic. Do they not consider themselves Christians either?
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I’m not sure, we’ll talk about that when the time comes. Her parents worshiped in, I believe, a Methodist church (her Dad, my brother, is or was Catholic) but I don’t know whether she formally converted. Probably not – they’re not the follow-through types in religious matters. Don’t know about the fiance’, but my Goddaughter likely is a non-practicing Catholic at this point.

I’ll discuss this with experts first, of course. But the point is, if they insist on a civil marriage, and if the Church doesn’t forbid my presiding over it (several “ifs” along the way), then in that case how might I bring it as close as reasonably possible to keeping religion alive without pretending its a religious ceremony?

For what it’s worth, I doubt I’ll accept the invitation regardless. But I like to plan ahead . . . .
 
STMgtd said:
then in that case how might I bring it as close as reasonably possible to keeping religion alive without pretending its a religious ceremony?
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I can’t see religion taking any meaningful place in their life unless their personalities and values are compatible with it. It might not be possible otherwise.
 
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VanitasVanitatum said:
I can’t see religion taking any meaningful place in their life unless their personalities and values are compatible with it. It might not be possible otherwise.
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C’mon, man. Baby steps. A lot of people go through that period of doubt or selfishness when they’re young. They need to be coaxed along by people around them who care and try to set good examples. I think her fiance’ is open to healthy suggestions, though I barely know him at the moment. (They live a good distance away but travel into town occasionally.)

OK, I’m still looking for suggestions, but let’s redirect. Suppose the experts (priest, deacon, Archdiocesan Canon lawyer, whomever I consult) says “no.” If I’m asked to officiate and must decline, or even if I’m not and I’m just invited to attend, what suggestions does anyone have for helping keep religion alive in this proposed marriage? I don’t get too many opportunities to make tangible impressions with this kid.
 
1ke said:
and assumed legitimate by the Church unless and until challenged in an annulment petition, I believe.
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I was not a practicing Catholic who mwrried a non-Catholic. My husband converted 2 years ago and I returned to the Church last month-ish. We were told by our priest as well as a Canon Lawyer the our marriage was legitimate, but just needed to be convalidated.
Am I misunderstanding something here?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, just get my terms right since I’m new-ish.
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Unique_name said:
I was not a practicing Catholic who mwrried a non-Catholic. My husband converted 2 years ago and I returned to the Church last month-ish. We were told by our priest as well as a Canon Lawyer the our marriage was legitimate, but just needed to be convalidated.
Am I misunderstanding something here?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, just get my terms right since I’m new-ish.
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No, Unique_name, you’re right. My wife and I went through it, also. 9 years it took, 9 long years, until a Pastor was assigned to our parish who also was trained in Canon law. He said, correctly, that the convalidation in our case was an easy process, and in our case could have been done on the spot but for our interest in involving family to formalize it and kinda’ show off a little bit. Yours should be easier – my wife did not convert (Lutheran).

I am not a Canon lawyer. But after years of study and some training, as I understand it, your marriage is presumptively valid. You cannot get divorced and remarried without going through the annulment process. Annulment might be really fast and easy, but you still have to do it. It’s really easy to convalidate your marriage, too, in most cases. But you might have to go through a process – confession, maybe some pastoral counseling, it just depends on your priest’s way of doing things.

Prayers and good wishes!

P.S. – I’ve really liked all the priests I’ve dealt with. But having said that, they’re just like real people. The reason our convalidation took 9 years is because we had the mean old monsignor, then the “D” student at seminary who wasn’t smart but was very set in his ways, the deacon who warned us about the "D’ student, then the drunk psychologist priest, then the nice but stern monsignor. Each wanted to jam us into his little box – square pegs into round holes. Then finally came along the smart Canon lawyer pastor who knew exactly what to do. And I didn’t help – refusing to go “priest shopping,” but preferring to ride it out with my home parish. For 9 years. 🙂 You’ll be OK.
 
If I were you, I would not officiate a civil marriage for her.

The most obvious reason you have give her is the fact that you are her Godfather. If you were to do this, you would be violating the promise you made to the Church. It doesn’t matter that her parents left the Catholic Church, you made a promise to help raise her Catholic.

If you officiate a civil marriage for her, you would be violating your promises.

PLUS - there are all the obvious that you had stated in your post too.

I pray she will one day return to the faith and I pray you will not be pressured into a situation that you cannot accept.

God Bless & Godspeed.
 
Unique_name said:
but just needed to be convalidated.
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Convalidation is actually a wedding. Someone who was baptized Catholic and married outside the Church without a dispensation is in an invalid marriage, which needs to be convalidated.

If your marriage is valid, it cannot be convalidated.
 
Unique_name said:
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1ke:
and assumed legitimate by the Church unless and until challenged in an annulment petition, I believe.
Click to expand...
I was not a practicing Catholic who mwrried a non-Catholic. My husband converted 2 years ago and I returned to the Church last month-ish. We were told by our priest as well as a Canon Lawyer the our marriage was legitimate, but just needed to be convalidated.
Am I misunderstanding something here?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, just get my terms right since I’m new-ish.
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Hello @Unique_name - Yes, you and @STMgtd are misunderstanding a little.

I too went through this, as I was married outside the Church.

The term “legitimate” is only in regards to any children you may have. The Church does not consider your children to be illegitimate because you are in a marriage that is recognized by the state. Legitimacy is really only an issue for the State, not really the Church. However, in previous centuries, before govts got involved with “legal marriage,” it was up to the state to determine whether a child was legitimate for secular reasons (aka inheritance).

But today, most govts have marriage licences, etc.; so the Church really doesn’t have to get involved with this.

What the church deals with is whether the marriage if “valid” or not - as far as God is concerned (not the govt).

If you were baptized as a Catholic and married outside the Catholic Church without dispensation, then your marriage would be considered “invalid due to lack of form.” Such a situation is easy to fix, by simply having a “convalidation.” Or if the non-Catholic spouse refused to participate, then a Radical Sanation is possible - but takes longer.

To @stmgtd - I can’t understand how it took you 9 years! I’m so sorry that happened to you, it should have been pretty simple and took no more than 6 months (if you needed a Radical Sanation).

@Unique_name - if you have any more questions, please feel free to ask, as I’ve gone thought this before and I’m currently advising two of my siblings regarding this too.

God Bless
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STMgtd said:
But I like to plan ahead . .
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Okay, wear a tie with a crucifix on it if you’ll be officiating the wedding.

Give them a trip to the holy land, or Medjugorje, as a wedding gift, or give them a crucifix to hang in their home (I like the ‘sick call’ ones).

Give a toast at the reception, and talk about the ancient roots of wedding ceremonies which were performed in the name of the Abrahamic God.
 
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