Civil marriage valid for non-Catholics?

[chevalier]

There are probably people in your RCIA class who are married to Catholics. If those people were married outside the Church, they would need to have their marriage validated. It is only when two non-catholics marry that they don’t have to have to be married in the Catholic Church.

Yes. If they were married to Catholics, the requirements of form applied unless dispensed. Defect of form means they won’t get the marriage convalidated, they need to contract it anew or obtain Radical Sanation.

 

[dulcissima]

We are all bound to submit to civil authorities, but only Catholics must also submit to the authority of the Catholic Church. The Bible does not define what must take place for a marriage to be valid. For muc of history the validity of a marriage has been determined by civil authorities. The Church will recognize as valid marriages which are recognized by civil authorities as being valid when their are no Catholic parties involved. Only Catholics need to be concerned about Canon law.

 

[onmywayagain]

I still don’t see how a non-Catholic marrige is valid? Sorry, everyone, maybe I’m missing something. Thanks to everyone here trying to help me understand, but I believe for me, if it is done by a civil servent I don’t see it as valid. Maybe thats just me.

 

[chevalier]

I still don’t see how a non-Catholic marrige is valid? Sorry, everyone, maybe I’m missing something. Thanks to everyone here trying to help me understand, but I believe for me, if it is done by a civil servent I don’t see it as valid. Maybe thats just me.

What if you’re an atheist as is your spouse, you’ve always wanted a normal marriage with children, permanence and no cheating, didn’t exclude anything important, were both mature enough and understood what you were doing? Would that marriage not be valid? Why?

Or what authority does a Protestant minister have? He’s a layman like you or I unless he actually has valid orders for whatever bizarre reason, but even then, he’s not acting in any ordained capacity. Or a non-Christian cleric. Or a priest of one of a million gods in a politheistic religion. What difference does it make?

Even in the Catholic Church, a layman can be designated to assist at marriages, by the way. In times up to middle ages, the Church didn’t require a religious celebration at all. Divorce was forbidden, some people were off limits and that was it.

@dulcissima: Yes, although sometimes civil authorities will prescribe some conditions for validity of marriage. Then they could say if you didn’t have domicile, your marriage was invalid. Or if the judge was an impostor, then you didn’t marry. Or you had incurred some penalty legally preventing you from marrying anyone. That wouldn’t apply to validity of marriage as seen by the Catholic Church.

 

[onmywayagain]

What if you’re an atheist as is your spouse, you’ve always wanted a normal marriage with children, permanence and no cheating, didn’t exclude anything important, were both mature enough and understood what you were doing? Would that marriage not be valid? Why?

Or what authority does a Protestant minister have? He’s a layman like you or I unless he actually has valid orders for whatever bizarre reason, but even then, he’s not acting in any ordained capacity. Or a non-Christian cleric. Or a priest of one of a million gods in a politheistic religion. What difference does it make?

Even in the Catholic Church, a layman can be designated to assist at marriages, by the way. In times up to middle ages, the Church didn’t require a religious celebration at all. Divorce was forbidden, some people were off limits and that was it.

@dulcissima: Yes, although sometimes civil authorities will prescribe some conditions for validity of marriage. Then they could say if you didn’t have domicile, your marriage was invalid. Or if the judge was an impostor, then you didn’t marry. Or you had incurred some penalty legally preventing you from marrying anyone. That wouldn’t apply to validity of marriage as seen by the Catholic Church.

Like I said maybe its just me.

 

[yessisan]

This has been a hot topic here since it’s been posted many times. If both husband and wife are entering the Church together, their baptism makes their marriage sacramental, or if one enter first, and then the other, a convalidations hould do the works.

Search this on invalid marriages and you’ll find the answer. Plus, if they aren’t Catholic, their marriage is valid, if they want to become Catholic, their marriage has to validated IF they haven’t had any prior marriages or divorces…

 

[onmywayagain]

This has been a hot topic here since it’s been posted many times. If both husband and wife are entering the Church together, their baptism makes their marriage sacramental, or if one enter first, and then the other, a convalidations hould do the works.

Search this on invalid marriages and you’ll find the answer. Plus, if they aren’t Catholic, their marriage is valid, if they want to become Catholic, their marriage has to validated IF they haven’t had any prior marriages or divorces…

When you say, “the Church” you are refering to Catholic right? Then how does there Baptism make their marriage a sacramental and/or valid when they enter or plan to the Church? In the Catholic Church you need Baptism, Confirmation and First Holy Communion to be Fully initiated into the Church. Without completing these three steps you cannot recieve the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. If they are not Catholic only complicates the issue even more. 1) They both are not Baptized as Catholic Christians. 2) They have not receive 1st Holy Communion. 3)Have not received Confirmation. Hence, cannot receive the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony in the Catholic Church and/or even have it validated in the Catholic Church.

How does somethng become a Sacramental anyways?

 

[chevalier]

Only baptism is required for sacramentality of marriage. You should receive the other ones before marriage, but it’s not required for sacramentality or validity.

Also, a non-sacramental marriage can still be valid. So lack of any sacraments whatsoever doesn’t mean your marriage is invalid.

Marriage becomes sacramental either by proper contraction, or the sacramental quality is gained with convalidation (or radical sanation) or when two validly married people are baptised Catholic.

What people here refer to as “validation” must be some investigation of validity of their marriage. It doesn’t bestow validity or sacramental character. If they are baptised non-Catholics and the marriage is valid, then it was sacramental already before they converted. If they receive baptism in the Catholic Church, the baptism is what makes their marriage sacramental. Whatever one understands as “validation” only finds out what the state of matters is.

 

[1ke]

I still don’t see how a non-Catholic marrige is valid?

At the very minimum you should accept that the marriage of two non-Cathoilcs is valid because the Church says it is valid.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding of what the term “valid” means as it applies to marriage.

The Church teaches that marriage is a natural institution-- it is not only for Christians and not only for Catholics. Marriages between non-Christians or between a baptized and unbaptized person are called “good and natural marriages”. The Church recognizes that they are *valid *marriage.

The Church teaches any marriage between two baptized persons is both valid and sacramental.

The Church teaches a marriage is "brought into being by the lawfully manifested consent of persons who are legally capable."

That’s it-- that is what makes a marriage valid-- two people who are legally capable of giving consent do so.

There is no Church teaching that for non-Catholics this consent must be done in a certain way.

The Church teaches that Catholics have to give that consent in a specific form-- in a Church witnessed by a priest. However, the Church allows Catholics to get married outside this form through a dispensation.

The Sacrament is conferred by the two people giving the consent-- the bride and groom-- not the priest. Therefore, a priest is not necessary for a marriage to take place, be valid, or be a Sacrament.

 

[yessisan]

When you say, “the Church” you are refering to Catholic right? Then how does there Baptism make their marriage a sacramental and/or valid when they enter or plan to the Church? In the Catholic Church you need Baptism, Confirmation and First Holy Communion to be Fully initiated into the Church. Without completing these three steps you cannot recieve the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. If they are not Catholic only complicates the issue even more. 1) They both are not Baptized as Catholic Christians. 2) They have not receive 1st Holy Communion. 3)Have not received Confirmation. Hence, cannot receive the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony in the Catholic Church and/or even have it validated in the Catholic Church.

How does somethng become a Sacramental anyways?

I searched for that specific thread but couldn’t find it. But from what I remember, if I am correct (pardon if I have the wrong person) Br. Rich SFO (from CAF) said if both partners are in RCIA together, and are receiving the 3 Sacraments together (at the same Mass), their marriage would be considered valid and Sacramental.

And yes, when I say Church I mean the CC.