Civil or Holy Matrimony?

[barboza21]

I believe in Holy matrimony. However, I’ve been asked whether God will bless those who mary in a court room as a civil ceremony. I’ve said a civil ceremony marries people in the world, not in heaven (or in the eyes of God), and that only a Holy matrimony in the Church marries poeple in the eyes of God. Where can I show in the bible that God wants people to marry in the Church, and not just i a courtroom.?

 

[curlycool89]

Maybe I’m slow, but whats with all the marriage questions lately?

Anyways, if you’re asking Sacramentally (which would be “Holy”), Catholics are obliged to follow Canon Law (in a Church by a priest/deacon unless properly dispensed to do otherwise). That’s just because we’re to follow the laws and precepts of the Church. Marrying outside without proper dispensations means the marriage is invalid (doesn’t exist). This part only applies to Catholics though.

But (in the Western Church at least) the man and the women are the ministers of the Sacrament. For those who are not Catholic, the Church doesn’t really care how they marry (as long as it is not unlawful as Christ said). So, 2 baptized non-Catholic can get married by a Justice of the Peace and their marriage is Sacramental and indissoluble (as in “What God has joined together let no man put asunder”). If 2 baptized non-Catholics decide to get married in a church it’s also Sacramental and indissoluble. There’s no difference as far as baptized non-Catholics are concerned.

Sure, maybe a church wedding seems “better”, but the outcome (for baptized non-Catholics) is the same: a valid, sacramental, indissoluble union.

 

[puzzleannie]

I believe in Holy matrimony. However, I’ve been asked whether God will bless those who mary in a court room as a civil ceremony. I’ve said a civil ceremony marries people in the world, not in heaven (or in the eyes of God), and that only a Holy matrimony in the Church marries poeple in the eyes of God. Where can I show in the bible that God wants people to marry in the Church, and not just i a courtroom.?

two baptized non-Catholics who are otherwise free to marry are both validly and sacramentally married no matter who witnesses the marriage (as long as they observe the law of their own faith, such as binding the Orthodox). Unbaptized persons, or couples where one spouse is baptized and one is not, are validly (although not sacramentally married) no matter who witnesses the vows. If either party is Catholic they are further bound by the laws of the Catholic Church on marriage and must either comply or receive a dispensation in cases where that is allowed. You will therefore find the rule about being married in a sacred place in canon law, not in scripture.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I believe in Holy matrimony. However, I’ve been asked whether God will bless those who mary in a court room as a civil ceremony. I’ve said a civil ceremony marries people in the world, not in heaven (or in the eyes of God), and that only a Holy matrimony in the Church marries poeple in the eyes of God. Where can I show in the bible that God wants people to marry in the Church, and not just i a courtroom.?

Is your question hypothetical or is it related to a real life situation?

 

[barboza21]

Is your question hypothetical or is it related to a real life situation?

Real life situation. two baptized people say they don’t want to marry in church, that it is the same to have a ‘civil’ marriage.

 

[barboza21]

If either party is Catholic they are further bound by the laws of the Catholic Church on marriage and must either comply or receive a dispensation in cases where that is allowed. You will therefore find the rule about being married in a sacred place in canon law, not in scripture.

Well one of them is Catholic, and one is Seventh Day Adventist (adventists have a valid baptism), but they say a civil ceremony is the same as a Marriage in the Church. they say that God will bless them the same. Do you happen to know WHERE in canon law its specified to being married in the church? thanks!

 

[Matthew_Holford]

As one party is Catholic and the other one is a non-Catholic, the Catholic party must apply for permission for a mixed marriage. Because one of the parties is a Catholic they must marry according to canonical form. The Catholic party may apply for dispensation from canonical form. If this is granted they can marry in a civil ceremony.

If they go ahead with the wedding disregarding the Church’s laws it will be an invalid marriage. If the Catholic party applies for dispensation from canonical form and this is refused but they go ahead and get married in a civil ceremony the marriage will be invalid.

 

[1ke]

Well one of them is Catholic, and one is Seventh Day Adventist (adventists have a valid baptism), but they say a civil ceremony is the same as a Marriage in the Church. they say that God will bless them the same. Do you happen to know WHERE in canon law its specified to being married in the church? thanks!

Your friend is gravely mistaken and needs to go talk to his priest. Additionally, there are many problems a Catholic is likely to encounter marrying a Seventh Day Adventist.

As for Canon Law, here are the relevant canons:

Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.

Can. 1124 Without express permission of the competent authority, a marriage is prohibited between two baptized persons of whom one is baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it after baptism and the other of whom is enrolled in a Church or ecclesial community not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

Can. 1125 The local ordinary can grant a permission of this kind if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions have been fulfilled:

1/ the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;

2/ the other party is to be informed at an appropriate time about the promises which the Catholic party is to make, in such a way that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party;

3/ both parties are to be instructed about the purposes and essential properties of marriage which neither of the contracting parties is to exclude.

Can. 1127 §1. The prescripts of ⇒ can. 1108 are to be observed for the form to be used in a mixed marriage.

§2. If grave diffculties hinder the observance of canonical form, the local ordinary of the Catholic party has the right of dispensing from the form in individual cases, after having consulted the ordinary of the place in which the marriage is celebrated and with some public form of celebration for validity. It is for the conference of bishops to establish norms by which the aforementioned dispensation is to be granted in a uniform manner.

§3. It is forbidden to have another religious celebration of the same marriage to give or renew matrimonial consent before or after the canonical celebration according to the norm of §1. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the Catholic who is assisting and a non-Catholic minister together, using their own rites, ask for the consent of the parties.

 

[barboza21]

As one party is Catholic and the other one is a non-Catholic, the Catholic party must apply for permission for a mixed marriage. Because one of the parties is a Catholic they must marry according to canonical form. The Catholic party may apply for dispensation from canonical form. If this is granted they can marry in a civil ceremony.

If they go ahead with the wedding disregarding the Church’s laws it will be an invalid marriage. If the Catholic party applies for dispensation from canonical form and this is refused but they go ahead and get married in a civil ceremony the marriage will be invalid.

Ohh… I see. I’ve told them about getting married according to canonical form. But whats difference between that and if they they were to be granted dispensation from canonical form. What would the rules be there (regarding children and faith, etc.)?

Thanks! Learning a lot!

 

[barboza21]

Your friend is gravely mistaken and needs to go talk to his priest. Additionally, there are many problems a Catholic is likely to encounter marrying a Seventh Day Adventist.

As for Canon Law, here are the relevant canons:

Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.

Can. 1124 Without express permission of the competent authority, a marriage is prohibited between two baptized persons of whom one is baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it after baptism and the other of whom is enrolled in a Church or ecclesial community not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

Can. 1125 The local ordinary can grant a permission of this kind if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions have been fulfilled:

1/ the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;

2/ the other party is to be informed at an appropriate time about the promises which the Catholic party is to make, in such a way that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party;

3/ both parties are to be instructed about the purposes and essential properties of marriage which neither of the contracting parties is to exclude.

Can. 1127 §1. The prescripts of ⇒ can. 1108 are to be observed for the form to be used in a mixed marriage.

§2. If grave diffculties hinder the observance of canonical form, the local ordinary of the Catholic party has the right of dispensing from the form in individual cases, after having consulted the ordinary of the place in which the marriage is celebrated and with some public form of celebration for validity. It is for the conference of bishops to establish norms by which the aforementioned dispensation is to be granted in a uniform manner.

§3. It is forbidden to have another religious celebration of the same marriage to give or renew matrimonial consent before or after the canonical celebration according to the norm of §1. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the Catholic who is assisting and a non-Catholic minister together, using their own rites, ask for the consent of the parties.

THANK YOU! This is of sooooo much help…

Umm, about the canonical laws…
Where do they come from? and why? I never knew this…
Who made these laws and when? especially these regarding marriage…

I’ll greatly appreciate it!
Thank you again for your information!

May God bless you.

 

[curlycool89]

THANK YOU! This is of sooooo much help…

Umm, about the canonical laws…
Where do they come from? and why? I never knew this…
Who made these laws and when? especially these regarding marriage…

I’ll greatly appreciate it!
Thank you again for your information!

May God bless you.

The CIC (that is, the Code of Canon Law, which is CIC in Latin). All Catholic by virtue of their baptism (or later acceptance into the Church) are bound by Canon Law. As of Pope Benedict’s latest update to this (I can’t remember when it was), it is also now impossible to defect from the Church and be dispensed from marriage rules. Once you are Catholic, your are bound by the rules for marriage for life.

Those specific quoted canons are found here and here.

If you want to see the whole parts on marriage, start here. Canons 1055 through 1165 cover the Sacrament of Marriage.

 

[joandarc2008]

THANK YOU! This is of sooooo much help…

Umm, about the canonical laws…
Where do they come from? and why? I never knew this…
Who made these laws and when? especially these regarding marriage…

I’ll greatly appreciate it!
Thank you again for your information!

May God bless you.

The short answers - they come from interpretation of the Scripture, writings, councils, etc. The big thing is to make sure that the Non-Catholic party will not interfere with the Catholic party practicing his/her faith and raising the children in the Catholic faith. Also it must be with the intention of being permanent, faithful, and open to life. If they are not willing to do those things they will probably receive the dispensation to marry as it will not be a valid marriage. Also, if the Catholic party marries outside of the Church they will not be able to partake of the Eucharist until they convalidate the marriage.

 

[laszlo]

I believe in Holy matrimony. However, I’ve been asked whether God will bless those who mary in a court room as a civil ceremony. I’ve said a civil ceremony marries people in the world, not in heaven (or in the eyes of God), and that only a Holy matrimony in the Church marries poeple in the eyes of God. Where can I show in the bible that God wants people to marry in the Church, and not just i a courtroom.?

The Bible does not say neither that one should marry at the courtroom, and between non catholics it is enough to make marriage vows living together until the death of one of them without the courtroom or officer of peace or any public assistance

The problem with the courtroom marriage is, that the courtroom marriage can be dissolved, it is not considered to take forever, it can be dissolved by mutual agreement. The Bible says

Mark 10:11 And he saith to them: Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

The courtroom marriage denying this and allowing no fault divorce is invalid for a Catholic

 

[1ke]

THANK YOU! This is of sooooo much help…

Umm, about the canonical laws…
Where do they come from? and why? I never knew this…
Who made these laws and when? especially these regarding marriage…

I’ll greatly appreciate it!
Thank you again for your information!

May God bless you.

They come from the bishops and the Pope.

Their purpose is to guide the orderly running of the Church, and to establish criteria for the proper administration of the sacraments.

 

[barboza21]

The problem with the courtroom marriage is, that the courtroom marriage can be dissolved, it is not considered to take forever, it can be dissolved by mutual agreement. The Bible says

Mark 10:11 And he saith to them: Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

The courtroom marriage denying this and allowing no fault divorce is invalid for a Catholic

Woah… You just shone a new light on this. NNNNEver thought of it that way. Thank you. Thank you…

 

[Matthew_Holford]

The problem with the courtroom marriage is, that the courtroom marriage can be dissolved…

I don’t think that is current Church teaching. If A and B are a) both validly baptised non-Catholics and b) free to marry and they marry in a civil ceremony I think the Church would see their marriage as valid, sacramental, ratified and if they have engaged in a human act capable of creating children then it is consummated and thus indissoluble.

If A and B later go through a civil dissolution and B wants to marry C, a Catholic, then B would need to apply to a tribunal for an annulment. If the tribunal B decided B’s marriage to A was valid then B and C would not be free to marry in the Catholic Church.