Civilly divorced still married in the church

[CatherineOH]

My x and I have been civilly divorced for 10 years.
neither of us ever got an annulment from the church, so in the eyes of church we are still married…or are we?

My x is having serious financial problems… no surprise there.
he is asking for us to live together again so he can get on his feet.

On the outside, it sounds like a good idea.
we as a couple helped friends out this way several times during the marriage.
(friend in the guestroom)

From my gut, I refused him and suggested I could put him up for a month at one of those long term hotels near us. I think that is what will happen if he can’t find lodging. (the county is putting his inherited house on the market for failure to pay property taxes and he lives on social security so can’t get a loan on a house that needs more work done on it than it is worth)
I’m fortunate to be in a situation where I can afford to do that. (and why I also got all the mutual debt from the marriage)

…But what if I did accept and allow him to stay?

My question revolves around appearances to the neighbors more than anything.
My x too would be in the guest room not in my bedroom.

But never mind appearances…are we not still actually married?
don’t we have the right to live together still even in the church’s eyes?

Then another side of the coin if we were to decide to live as a married couple, we are already married in the church, so if we wanted (or not) to have a civil marriage again we wouldn’t have to do more than elope to a judge, right?

 

[Corki]

Assuming your marriage was in the Church, you are still married. The Church allows for separation, which in many countries involves a civil divorce, but the hope is always that there will be a reconcilliation. If you were to negate the civil divorce, nothing has changed as far as the Church is concerned.

 

[runningdude]

The Church allows a couple to remain permanently separated for a just cause. In extreme cases, it even would allow a couple to civilly divorce to force a fair distribute property and to provide physical protection. Assuming whatever flaws that led to the divorce are still present, it would likely not be a good situation to simply move back in together.

Father Serpa answered a similar question recently, were he said it would be an act of charity to support an estranged spouse, but not an obligation. Putting him up temporarily in a long term motel, or possibly hiring a lawyer to help sort out his tax situation would be a good way to do this. This is as far as you should go without getting “back together”.

As for living together “unmarried”, I do think your thoughts are correct that it could give rise scandal among your neighbors. At a minimum, you to would have to “undo” the divorce by remarrying at city hall, but this should only be done if you intend to reunite permanently, and probably under the advice both marriage counselors and priests to help sort out whatever personal issues lead to the separation.

 

[Joe_5859]

I highly recommend talking to your priest about this. We cannot really evaluate the status of your marriage based only on your post.

In general, though, you are correct that the Church does not recognize civil divorce as ending a marriage. Marriage is indossoluble (it cannot be dissolved). An annulment investigation might reveal that a valid marriage was never entered into from the beginning. The again, the investigation could also reaffirm that the marriage was, in fact, valid.

 

[CatherineOH]

I have no intention of taking on even more financial worries than he has already caused me.
Marriage civilly will definately NOT be an option.

I just put it out there because it crossed my mind that yes, we are still married as far as the church is concerned.

The advice…

The Church allows a couple to remain permanently separated for a just cause. In extreme cases, it even would allow a couple to civilly divorce to force a fair distribute property and to provide physical protection. Assuming whatever flaws that led to the divorce are still present, it would likely not be a good situation to simply move back in together.

Father Serpa answered a similar question recently, were he said it would be an act of charity to support an estranged spouse, but not an obligation. Putting him up temporarily in a long term motel, or possibly hiring a lawyer to help sort out his tax situation would be a good way to do this. This is as far as you should go without getting “back together”.
…n.

Yes the cause is still presentk, and most evident by the amount of money he owes to charge card companies, the county etc.
Due to that, I wonder if it is actually an act of charity to support his habbit of overspending his funds. Pehraps he needs to spend a 90+ degree day on the street homeless??
Kind of like a person addicted to a drug who needs gasoline money… you fill their tank just to have them go down the street to buy their next hit.

 

[CatherineOH]

… An annulment investigation might reveal that a valid marriage was never entered into from the beginning. The again, the investigation could also reaffirm that the marriage was, in fact, valid.

It was valid except that he did not want children then, or now. I am quite a bit younger than he so it is a logical conclusion still. If I was naive then, I still am…

… marriage situation? Non existent.

 

[The_Bucket]

It was valid except that he did not want children then, or now. I am quite a bit younger than he so it is a logical conclusion still. If I was naive then, I still am…

… marriage situation? Non existent.

If he was never open to children, that’s pretty blatant in terms of being an invalid marriage. Just sayin’.

 

[wmw]

Not ever wanting to have children sounds like a good reason to suspect that you can get an annulment. I’d start the process to have the Church make the official standing match the reality. Since, he is available to write a statement saying his intentions in the marriage get it started and done now before he is not available or would withhold it from you. This would also free you to marry in the church to anyone if a real marriage situation should come up in the future.

 

[St_Francis]

Wouldn’t paying off the taxes he owes on the house be cheaper than putting him up in a long-term hotel for a month? (I really don’t know…)

OTOH, istm that if you put him up in a hotel for a month, at the end of the month, he will still have all those same problems, so what would happen then? I could see doing it if something were going to happen during that month to change things, like he had just gotten a job and needed to wait to have the money to get an apartment, or he would be able to move in with a friend at that point, but… this does not seem like a good idea.

 

[CatherineOH]

Not ever wanting to have children sounds like a good reason to suspect that you can get an annulment. I’d start the process to have the Church make the official standing match the reality. Since, he is available to write a statement saying his intentions in the marriage get it started and done now before he is not available or would withhold it from you. This would also free you to marry in the church to anyone if a real marriage situation should come up in the future.

You are correct. I have started the but put it into delay for a few months here. You all are convincing me to go on with it. Of my many faults, celibacy isn’t an issue for me and have no marriage prospects now or in the near future.

The main reason I have delayed was his rather violent (not physically) reaction to the idea back at Christmas time.

Wouldn’t paying off the taxes he owes on the house be cheaper than putting him up in a long-term hotel for a month? (I really don’t know…)

OTOH, istm that if you put him up in a hotel for a month, at the end of the month, he will still have all those same problems, so what would happen then? I could see doing it if something were going to happen during that month to change things, like he had just gotten a job and needed to wait to have the money to get an apartment, or he would be able to move in with a friend at that point, but… this does not seem like a good idea.

You are absolutely right.
He hasn’t changed in all these years. This is a man who went through 300K in his retirement investments in 9 years and is now broke. He is 65 (im much younger) If it were not for his social security he wouldn’t have anything and has always refused to get another job. Now he is unemployable due to his eyesight and heart issues.
and Yes, a hotel at 169/ week ~$115 with taxes for a month is cheaper than the 7K he owes in property taxes.

The Church allows a couple to remain permanently separated for a just cause. In extreme cases, it even would allow a couple to civilly divorce to force a fair distribute property and to provide physical protection. Assuming whatever flaws that led to the divorce are still present, it would likely not be a good situation to simply move back in together.

You are very insightful. Thanks for the reminder. I was never in physical danger, but definiately in a situation of mental abuse from him. Coupled with the financial idiocy he demonstrated then lead to the divorce. Obviously that situation is still present. I only wish he had an excuse like drug addiction to blame most of it on.

My thanks to all.

I’m going to talk with our parish priest to see if there is somewhere he can stay. I agree. It doesn’t seem to be a good idea for him to stay at my place nor at a hotel room provided by me. (my little voice`guardian angel? is screaming at me so to speak .)
Perhaps there is an outreach through the church or something. I can always donate the about for a hotel room to that outreach.

 

[thistle]

I highly recommend talking to your priest about this. We cannot really evaluate the status of your marriage based only on your post.

In general, though, you are correct that the Church does not recognize civil divorce as ending a marriage**. Marriage is indossoluble (it cannot be dissolved).** An annulment investigation might reveal that a valid marriage was never entered into from the beginning. The again, the investigation could also reaffirm that the marriage was, in fact, valid.

Not quite correct.

A valid and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved.
A valid but unconsummated marriage can be dissolved.

 

[Joe_5859]

Not quite correct.

A valid and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved.
A valid but unconsummated marriage can be dissolved.

Well, yes, but I figured I didn’t need to bring that into this particular discussion.