Claim: Islam is NOT a religion of peace (blog post)

[exoflare]

I still can’t see why anyone converts.

I see very good arguments by Catholics *for *Catholicism. And I’ve seen them for Protestantism. I’ve never seen a convincing argument *for *Islam.

People never convert to Islam as a result of the arguments (although many times they will try to convince themselves later that they did)… when people convert it is usually due to one or more of the following: peer pressure, legitimizing the instant gratification of certain carnal pleasures, the ego boost and feeling of belonging that comes from joining a so-called “chosen” people. Those are a few just off the top of my head. There are really several other factors that integrate with each other and come into play, but that is the basic picture of what happens.

 

[AbeOman]

People never convert to Islam as a result of the arguments (although many times they will try to convince themselves later that they did)… when people convert it is usually due to one or more of the following: peer pressure, legitimizing the instant gratification of certain carnal pleasures, the ego boost and feeling of belonging that comes from joining a so-called “chosen” people. Those are a few just off the top of my head. There are really several other factors that integrate with each other and come into play, but that is the basic picture of what happens.

This your openion, better go and ask a convert to Islam why he or she converrted and then let me know because I’m very interested but what you mentioned are not there their real reason reasons.

Dig deep…?

 

[AbeOman]

I still can’t see why anyone converts.

I see very good arguments by Catholics *for *Catholicism. And I’ve seen them for Protestantism. I’ve never seen a convincing argument *for *Islam.

Tell you what, what exactly you want to convinced? that you are not ready to be convinced of since you have made up your mind.
Tell me, talk to me…?!

 

[Montalban]

Tell you what, what exactly you want to convinced? that you are not ready to be convinced of since you have made up your mind.
Tell me, talk to me…?!

What’s the point in you being here if you’re going to take that attitude? If you can’t discuss something rationally, why are you here?

You’ve not been able to do so before… For one thing, when I tell you that you’re allowed to lie in Islam, and you deny it, but give examples of where you can - and then you accuse me of not understanding your faith - this is hardly the realm of logical reasoning on behalf of Islam.

Is this how you convert people?

 

[Montalban]

This your openion, better go and ask a convert to Islam why he or she converrted and then let me know because I’m very interested but what you mentioned are not there their real reason reasons.

Dig deep…?

Most of the people I know do so because they’re preyed upon by Moslem apologists like yourself who give false accounts of Islam, as well, they’re carrying a lot of self-loathing towards Christianity because they believe anti-Chrisitan, or relativist arguments - such as on issues of religious violence - as if the Crusades are comprable to Islamic violcence.*

That’s why I thank the Lord for fora such as this where your arguments are put under the spot-light. And they’re found wanting as you try several conflicting arguments at once.

You’re more than welcome to attempt to deal with “compulsion” in Islam - let’s look at Islam’s attitudes towards Apostates.

*The Crusades were a reaction to Islamic violence. Islamic violence is at the heart of Islam.

 

[paarsurrey]

If some people say that islam means peace then why so much hate filled talk in the Quran? Here is one quote, “You who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them-God(allah) does not guide such wrongdoers.” That is a passage from the Quran.

Hi

This is because people don’t read such passages with the proper contexts provided in Quan.

An easy thing to do is to understand such passages by accessing alislam.org/
English w/ 5 Vol. Commentary

There are no hate passages in Quran, only rational concepts.
Islam is a Religion of Peace.

Thanks

 

[Montalban]

Hi

This is because people don’t read such passages with the proper contexts provided in Quan.

What’s the context for “slay all the idolators”?

 

[onmywayagain]

Hi

This is because people don’t read such passages with the proper contexts provided in Quan.

An easy thing to do is to understand such passages by accessing alislam.org/
English w/ 5 Vol. Commentary

There are no hate passages in Quran, only rational concepts.
Islam is a Religion of Peace.

Thanks

Rational concepts? Isalm is not a religion of peace. Islam have never been at peace with any one. Look at past history. There is no peace even in the Islamic community. There is nothing you can say that will even change that. You must follow the Quran the way the prophet(self-proclaimed)Muhammed says to follow it, by bringing the sword. If not you are an INFIDEL just like the rest of us. Not my words but his.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Is Islam really any different in that respect from Christianity ? There are passages in the Bible that advocate or command or require some very brutal deeds. The Koran may be no better, but is it any worse ?​

As for the historical record - the less said about that, the better: neither religion has clean hands.

 

[Montalban]

Is Islam really any different in that respect from Christianity ? There are passages in the Bible that advocate or command or require some very brutal deeds. The Koran may be no better, but is it any worse ?​

As for the historical record - the less said about that, the better: neither religion has clean hands.

Show me the teachings in Christianity we’re still supposed to be following in regards killing people.

 

[exoflare]

Is Islam really any different in that respect from Christianity ? There are passages in the Bible that advocate or command or require some very brutal deeds.​

This is such a red herring… I’m surprised it’s even brought up as much as it is. The difference is, of course, that the commands to violence in the Quran are considered by Islam to be the ultimate and final word of God. We know the ones in the Bible are situation-specific at best - and they aren’t even commands to Christians! If people would stop pretending the Bible was meant to be one big instruction book for everyone, we would save a lot of time.

 

[Montalban]

This is such a red herring… I’m surprised it’s even brought up as much as it is. The difference is, of course, that the commands to violence in the Quran are considered by Islam to be the ultimate and final word of God. We know the ones in the Bible are situation-specific at best - and they aren’t even commands to Christians! If people would stop pretending the Bible was meant to be one big instruction book for everyone, we would save a lot of time.

I’m sure it’s not the first time Gottle of Geer has brought it up

 

[AbeOman]

This is such a red herring… I’m surprised it’s even brought up as much as it is. The difference is, of course, that the commands to violence in the Quran are considered by Islam to be the ultimate and final word of God. We know the ones in the Bible are situation-specific at best - and they aren’t even commands to Christians! If people would stop pretending the Bible was meant to be one big instruction book for everyone, we would save a lot of time.

Ok, educate me, then what is the bible if it"s not a book of teachings and instructions to all believing Christians…? I may politely suggest that you know your bible well, both OT and NT…see how much violence it contains.

One last word, every verse in the Quran that deals with violence has specific application, deals with specific situation, has specific revelation and a specific limitation.

let’s know go into fruitless argument since I can proof easily that you don’t much of the Quran or Islam accept what you have read from anti-islamic sources.

Proof, explain to me from the Quran (you can use any of the accepted standard translations of the meaning of the Quran)
what is the laws that governs war in Islam…?

 

[AbeOman]

Show me the teachings in Christianity we’re still supposed to be following in regards killing people.

I will show you many versus and chapters in both OT and NT, but before I do that, I have to ask you this, Do you as believing Christian would deny, disapprove, disbelieve or through out any part of the bible or gospels or in any verses they contain if you don’t like or understand such verse or chapter or you will believe the books in whole…?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

AbeOman,
When you start reading the Bible to do your research, please ensure you look for the “prescriptive” verses - i.e. the verses where God commands all believers to do something,

as opposed to “descriptive” verses - which are merely historical accounts specific to a time and place or a certain person - and therefore is not generally applicable to all believers.

To give you an example:

If your mother tells you that your brother is at school - it is not a prescription that everyone goes to school, but merely a description of what your brother (and nobody else) is doing.

In contrast, if the government makes a law that all school-aged children must go to school - it is a prescriptive stipulation that everyone goes to school.

See the difference? We want the latter and not the former.

Thank you.

 

[AbeOman]

Most of the people I know do so because they’re preyed upon by Moslem apologists like yourself who give false accounts of Islam, as well, they’re carrying a lot of self-loathing towards Christianity because they believe anti-Chrisitan, or relativist arguments - such as on issues of religious violence - as if the Crusades are comprable to Islamic violcence.*

That’s why I thank the Lord for fora such as this where your arguments are put under the spot-light. And they’re found wanting as you try several conflicting arguments at once.

You’re more than welcome to attempt to deal with “compulsion” in Islam - let’s look at Islam’s attitudes towards Apostates.

*The Crusades were a reaction to Islamic violence. Islamic violence is at the heart of Islam.

**First, let’s be intellectual enough and not call each other things we are not, I’m not a “Moslem apologists” I’m not even a Moslem…since I don’t know what the word means and why you are using it even though it’s wrong if you meant “Muslim”.

Second, let me correct you, it’s not true that folks who convert as you said “they’re carrying a lot of self-loathing towards Christianity because they believe anti-Christian” I personally can give you many examples of good christians and even catholic priest who converted to Islam, moreover, if someone converts to Islam because someone like me has mislead them into it as you suggest, then one would argue that anyone with half the brains of an ant would leave once they discover the truth, now that imply that so many folks of different backgrounds, diverse demographics and religion backgrounds who converted would not have a second thought about Islam if they discover something sinister about their new religion then they would leave and not stay, in addition some of them may take on their own to discourage others not to do so but do we see anyone doing so…I don’t think so.

Finally, let’s deal with your point…“compulsion” and let’s look at Islam’s attitudes towards Apostates… as you put it,

how many apostates do you know who where killed…? under what circumstances where they killed…? in place or country they were killed…? let’s get facts and debate as knowledgeable folks not with mere distortions of facts and half truths…?

Next point, crusaders where not fighting the good fight for the sake of the christains but where punch of self promoting and indeed were after richest of the east otherwise they would not have killed so many christains as well as Muslims in Jurasalem.

Check on the History Chanel, Discovery Channel or get a copy of thousand s of books on the subject.

End of **

 

[Montalban]

I will show you many versus and chapters in both OT and NT, but before I do that, I have to ask you this, Do you as believing Christian would deny, disapprove, disbelieve or through out (sic; throw out?) any part of the bible or gospels or in any verses they contain if you don’t like or understand such verse or chapter or you will believe the books in whole…?

We believe that the revelations to the Jews weren’t ‘complete’… which is why they call God by the plural term, but don’t understand it’s 'cause God is the Trinity.

So, show me from the NT.

 

[AbeOman]

AbeOman,
When you start reading the Bible to do your research, please ensure you look for the “prescriptive” verses - i.e. the verses where God commands all believers to do something,

as opposed to “descriptive” verses - which are merely historical accounts specific to a time and place or a certain person - and therefore is not generally applicable to all believers.

To give you an example:

If your mother tells you that your brother is at school - it is not a prescription that everyone goes to school, but merely a description of what your brother (and nobody else) is doing.

In contrast, if the government makes a law that all school-aged children must go to school - it is a prescriptive stipulation that everyone goes to school.

See the difference? We want the latter and not the former.

Thank you.

**Thanks, this goes to the heart of what have learned in my bible study courses and I do agree with you.

However, there laws or instructions or teachings prescribed in the bible that are not practiced today by Christians of any denominations, now does that mean Christians do select certain teachings of the bible and disregard other parts…?

from what I know some will say yes while many say no.

Thanks for the well informed (name removed by moderator)ut.**

 

[Montalban]

First, let’s be intellectual enough and not call each other things we are not, I’m not a “Moslem apologists” I’m not even a Moslem…since I don’t know what the word means and why you are using it even though it’s wrong if you meant “Muslim”.

And you call that being honest? :dancing:

Moslem is an English form of Muslim. You may have noticed I use the word Koran, too!
Mos·lem
n. Variant of Muslim.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/moslem

Finally, let’s deal with your point…“compulsion” and let’s look at Islam’s attitudes towards Apostates… as you put it,

how many apostates do you know who where killed…? under what circumstances where they killed…? in place or country they were killed…? let’s get facts and debate as knowledgeable folks not with mere distortions of facts and half truths…?

Next point, crusaders where not fighting the good fight for the sake of the christains but where punch of self promoting and indeed were after richest of the east otherwise they would not have killed so many christains as well as Muslims in Jurasalem.

Check on the History Chanel, Discovery Channel or get a copy of thousand s of books on the subject.

Even if not one single person was killed, the fact you threaten them with death is a compulsion!

:ehh:

 

[AbeOman]

We believe that the revelations to the Jews weren’t ‘complete’… which is why they call God by the plural term, but don’t understand it’s 'cause God is the Trinity.

So, show me from the NT.

Thanks, now we are getting somewhere, so you don’t believe in the OT…? and we shall stick to only NT and if so in which bible do you want me to show you from…? this is simplification, in which denomination’s bible, I mean Catholic, Protestants, LDS, Jehovah’s, orthodox, Coptic, Eastern Churches (Arabic Bibles), etc…?