Claims that Catholics adapted pagan beliefs

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I have been increasingly bothered by this.subject and while I have heard this type of topic discussed before I would still love some insight here.

A large sum of my close friends from the last 6 or so years call themselves Pagan. My best friend in fact, who was raised Catholic and states Catholicism is part of her identity, also practices a small level of paganism. (Tarao cards is pretty much the extent). My bff would also describe herself as “Recovering Catholic” along with her sister, another good friend.

My bff met some of my other friends, one of whom was a non-practicing Wiccan. This other friend states that meeting my bff awakened her Wiccan beliefs, and began practicing again. This friend’s best friend is a Wiccan priestess, also grew up Catholic. She then initiated this other friend to become a priestess as well. What then resulted was a practicing coven group who would meet regularly.

While this all started.before I was Catholic and was considering leaving the LDS faith, I was a tad curious.as to what all this was about. Eventually my ordained priestess friend pretty much sent me an email saying I was not welcome at their events and was never invited. Praise God for this, in hindsight.

What actually bothers me is a couple things. First my best friend, whom by the way, despite her essential Agnosticism, is a wonderful person and I pray for her daily. When she discovered I was becoming Catholic, well she wasn’t happy. She was under the assumption I would become zealous somehow. She holds herself distant because I think she is afraid I will constantly go on and on about my faith? Which wouldn’t be a bad thing…but she assumes I would do it in a confrontational way. I think she is already assuming the worst, and I have no idea how to break the barrier. She herself has told me she is open to the idea of finding faith. I think she is looking for a very tangible sign from God. Anyway, I have heard from her many times the argument that the Catholics got their traditions and teaching from the Pagans…like I had an advent wreath out and she comments how we got that from Pagan traditions.

Besides her, my other Wiccan Priestess friend constantly makes similar claims. In.a friendly discussion she states how the Catholic
church got their practices by adapting Pagan beliefs in order to convert pagans. I informed her the Catholic church is more of the fulfillment of the Jewish faith in some regards, which of course got twisted. Like she states St. Brigitte from Ireland was actually a pagan Goddess…I didn’t agree or believe anything she said but I also couldn’t refute it.

I am curious to find some books or some solid readings or teachings that help ME know what is actually going on there and be able to give truthfully concise answers that are loving and respectful too.

Also I find it really hard to get past the relativism views, especially among most of the people I know. So many people have misconceptions about the Catholic church…and while I know most of the time they are wrong I am not good at responding.

Funny I have shared before that my previous faith is what truly prepared me for Catholicism. I used to hear people claim how persecuted the LDS were. And certainly people disagreed with my decision to join but also respected it. I tell people now, if they want to know what it feels like to be persecuted. Try being Catholic. Churches that reformed from the one true faith despise the church, have misconceptions. And I find myself, even more so, surrounded by anti-religious liberals (I live in Portland Oregon…) who tear apart my beliefs as though I was a bigot or closeminded, or somehow homophobic. The list goes on. My point is my faith is stronger than it has ever been, and the proof is undeniable. And I am fearful of being persecuted.for it the rest of my life. But worse is not being able to defend it.

Can you help me with any recommendations? I know this was long winded and quite the background story. I am trying to.embrace this cross to bear, because it is huge. And I am willing. But I would love a little extra strength in being able to hold it up…any thoughts? 🙂

Thanks!
 
Hmm. This is a toughie, and I feel for you.

There are some ex-Wiccan, ex-pagan, etc. resources on the Internet. This may help you.

The thing about St. Brigit being the goddess Brigit is untrue. There were a lot of pagan Irish human people who bore the names of pagan Irish deities. She was a slavegirl (okay, a girl of the unfree daor class) who was born pagan and named Brigit. We know the names of her father and mother. We know the names of her nun associates, and of many of their community’s early supporters. There’s some dispute about whether she was consecrated to God as a nun by Patrick or by somebody else. Her story fits in much better with that of other early Irish nuns and monks than with the pagan tales of gods and goddesses, and her story has absolutely nothing to do with the goddess Brigit’s story of marrying Bres, a prettyboy miserly jerk god who nearly destroyed Ireland, and who got their son Ruadan killed too.

The only thing that is at all the same, is that both are associated with wordplay with one of the words for fire, “breo”. (Hence the goddess Brigit’s association with smithing and her kinship with the smith god Goibhniu, and with poetry; and probably also why the nuns of Kildare enthusiastically adopted the continental tradition of keeping an eternal flame or candle lit for Christ.)

However, the real derivation of both names is from “brig-”, hill or high, and the taletellers and poets all knew that perfectly well. “Breo-saighir”, fire arrow, was a poetic etymology but not a linguistic one.

St. Brigid was known for generosity, and even for giving away what was not hers to give. Nothing and nobody could stop her. Every story about her is about her doing good stuff, accomplishing things, serving Christ in ridiculously awesome ways.

The goddess Brigid was known for sad poetry about how shameful it was to be married to greedy, stingy Bres, but she didn’t do anything about it. It’s a bit shameful to pretend that a battered wife goddess is like St. Brigid, when really she’s a lot more like that poor goddess who ran a race while pregnant at the insistence of the Ulstermen.

I don’t want to rip on that poor goddess Brigid too much, but honestly, most of the glow of her name comes from the saint and her fame.
 
Sometimes it’s just necessary to find new friends. It’s unlikely you’ll be able to convince them as they probably consider Catholic history to be whitewashed.

Of course, you are correct that the Church never adopted pagan practices or beliefs. The closest you can get is the statement that the Church emphasized certain feasts to compete with pagan festivals that took place at the same time. Even then, there was no adoption of belief or practice.
 
Also, Pagans are big on claiming Jesus was adapted from various Pagan legends - Odin, Helios, the mystery religions etc. Something worth noting is that these religions/legends were often contemporary or, in some cases, subsequent to early Christianity…

Oh, and the Christmas tree thing about Oaks has a whole story painstakingly explaining the transference - from the Pagan oak that dies in the Winter to the evergreen that never dies (well, except when it’s ripped up and stuck in your dining room with coloured lights all over :rolleyes:)

:christmastree1:

And no, convicted witches weren’t generally lesbians cavorting in teh forests… more likely old dears accused of giving the evil eye

As for recommendations, here is good for the apologisms, and wikipedia a handy free starting point for historical accuracy (look up Odin). I’ve got a book about witchcraft which dispels the frisky lesbian myths… I’ll try and dig it out. 👍
 
i am a devote catholic and will lways will be no matter what someone says so please don’t let thtye mocking or anything get to you i’ve been mocked and questioned and critizied myself about being a roman catholic and i think to myself let them make all the fun the want jesus loves me and thats al that matters to me. peoples misconceptions about the church are a good deal of the time false and they really don’t try to find the answer to there question which makes no sense to me but hey if the question me i will find a answer.Your friends whom are of different faiths and mock you we all know its not right to tease some one but they do it and you need to set them straight and tell them hey its my faith its what i believe and i don’t mock what you believe so please leave me alone. Personelly i’ve had something similar happen to me and i recommend keep you head held high and just pray for help with your situation.I wish you the best of luck and i will pray for you.may God bless you in your time of need.
 
“Witchcraft in Tudor and Stuart England” by MacFarlane
 
Let’s establish a few truths.
  1. The mere presence of similarities between differing religious traditions does not necessarily equal a common origin. Mere similarity between obscure elements of paganism and Catholic religious symbols does not a common teaching (or belief) make. I think the burden of proof lies on your pagan friends and not on you. They made an unsubstantiated claim, and frankly, if they’d like you to believe it, they should be prepared to produce documentation of the official Church teaching that confers some sort of supernatural, animistic, worshipful quality on Advent wreaths.
  2. Advent is a season of preparation and renewal for the Second Coming of Christ as well as a memorial of the events leading to His birth and ministry. The Catholic liturgical seasons don’t even coinicide with the meteoroligical seasons that pagans celebrate.
  3. An Advent wreath is like a Christmas tree. It is a seasonal reminder whose original purpose was to turn our minds to God and away from earthly distractions, but that’s all it is, and that’s all it ever was, and all it will ever be. Advent wreaths and Christmas trees are lovely accents to any Catholic home and are tried-and-true ways of instilling devotion, but there is no obligation for Catholics to erect either one of them.
Furthermore, my research indicates an unmistakable Christian symbolism behind the color and arrangement of the candles. The three violet and one rose colored candle symbolize penance and joy, respectively. In addition, the Biblical persons represented by the candles are “the Patriarchs, the Prophets, St. John the Baptist, and Our Lady.”
  1. Paganism has many animistic aspects to it. What is animism? Animism is the divination and worship of nature. The divination of nature entails the presence of spirits in things as trees, rocks, rivers, etc. While I would agree that paganists such as the friends you refer to may indeed assemble wreaths to pay homage to the spirits (or gods and goddesses as the case may be) of nature, the intentions behind Catholic Advent wreaths are completely different.
The argument is fallacious. What your friends have done is established an innocuous similarity between paganism and Catholicism and as a result inferred a false connection between the two. For example, the monotheism of the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten and the revelation of the Jewish faith were distinct and unrelated events. Both belief systems, however, are monotheistic. It’s like saying that Judaism borrowed its monotheistic belief system from Akhenaten or vice versa merely due to the similarity. Non sequitur.
 
All Catholics should know their faith well and be ready to respond to all challenges. This takes time. You mentioned that you are a new Catholic. You should associate with people who can help you build up your faith, not tear it down. Hang out with Catholic friends. Go to daily Mass, or join one of the service organizations like St. Vincent de Paul. Offer to help with RCIA. Find some group that appeals to you. It is there that you will make strong Catholic friends.

Those who make charges against the Church must be prepared to provide the evidence that what they say is true. They often can’t. What proof do your “friends” offer that the Catholic Church adopted pagan beliefs? Do they even know what pagans believe(d)? And what doctrines does the Church teach that had their origin in paganism (in their opinion)? They’re the ones making the charges. Ask them for the evidence. Then bring their answers here, and we’ll help you contest them. And never fear – it’s pure bull-oney. Catholic doctrine is from Christ and His Apostles, not from pagans.

Glad you came home to Rome!
 
Never did understand why the phony baloney Wicca-ites and the neo-pagan nation hasn’t embraced what they claim is “pagan” Catholicism…We’ve got the Virgin Mary appearing before 100,000 people in Fatima, Portugal and making the Sun dance and they got sky-clad dancing and Ren Fest, and a heritage that leads back to Satanist Crowley and some nudist.

Methinks the true tale is far more wondrous. We were all monotheists. And Akhenaton revived this monotheism in line with Egyptian archives of monotheism overthrown in the same earlier upheaval the Jews record extra-biblically with monotheist Shem, Noah’s son, lamming out of town with the bones of Adam; and hiding out as Melchizedek, priest-king of Salem. The Great Pyramid is a monotheist monument to the Great Flood whose granite butterfly doors acted as a hydraulic ram pump to fill the lagoon in which floated the mini-Ark of Noah found buried at the foot of the Great Pyramid; with the red granite sarcophagus being the reliquary for the bones of Adam brought on Noah’s Ark per heiroglyphics: “The sacred bones of Ra (Adam) were brought on the sacred boat of Nu (Noah).” “Adam” means “red.”

Red is/was a monotheist theme so Neandertals’ burying their dead in red ocher is curious. That Akhenaton was a kindred spirit with the Jews is indicated by his singular grant of a juicy economic concession in the Holy Land for no other discernible reason than a shared monotheism. And we may note that Egypt is part of the Promised Land in some future unity. The bad guy Egyptians were CANNIBALS! Follow that theme for the true heritage of the anti-monotheists, including the human-sacrificing Druids. We taste like pig, or so say the Aztecs. Aztec belief and praxis follow nicely the world trend: monotheism assailed by CANNIBALS! Because the original Aztecs had five of the seven sacraments, and prophecies about the bad guys coming, and being overthrown by the bearded anti-cannibals. In other words, CANNIBALS overlay monotheism, and use all their stuff, including the prophecy of the special Virgin & Child known everywhere and of old. Check out Dr. D. James Kennedy’s “The Gospel in the Stars.”

The real depth and breadth of Christ’s life, death and resurrection is that He fulfilled all religious contentions. Osiris was put to death and did not rise from the dead, flunking the god test administered by Shem. Jesus did–and raised Lazarus from the dead before His own death; and raised a multitude of others at His resurrection who were gamboling around Jerusalem, so this isn’t a one-off act.

That ancients used the stars and moon and Sun as a calendrical device isn’t surprising. And God Himself decided to eternally separate His people from the Ren Festers and Uncle Festers like Crowley by commanding a new New Year to be celebrated in the dark of the Sun’s coursing, not the nexus of summer/spring. So Catholics have their new liturgical year paralleling the Jews, who use a more sophisticated inter-calation of the Sun and Moon, because another track of the monotheist remnant is high art and high math and high engineering with the bad guy CANNIBALS imitating their greatness and falling short, like turning astronomy–and astro-physicas one might suggest as Judeo-Christianity spurred science–into decadent superstitious astrology. Monotheism and the system was so pervasive that the bad guy CANNIBALS adopted the lingo and offices.

For example, the EN, the woman of “grace” which EN means, was the playing out of Genesis 3:15, God’s cursing Satan/“Adversary” and his spawn with the Woman & Seed. The bad guy CANNIBALS overthrew this system of societal organization with the woman disbursing goods and foodstuffs and her lands worked by her husband.

These are the “goddess” figurines, actually land title portraits, and the bad guys threw down the landmarks to seize her lands in a kind of good ol’ boy lodge system paralleling the caste system and heirarchy of Freemasonry. Savinah Teubal’s book, mis-named “Sarah the Priestess” notes the EN wasn’t a goddess but a queen, the Woman of Genesis 3:15.

WWSD? What Would Satan Do? Assail the Woman & Seed. The bad guys revolted, killing daddy, turning mommy into a temple prostitute, and croaking her kids, seen in the history of Sargon the Great, whose mother was an EN and who saved him from death. If all this bad guy stuff sounds like today’s welfare state-type social engineering with the abortion mandated by the CANNIBALS, it’s because the enmity between Satanistas and Woman & Seed fulfilled in the Virgin Mary and Jesus and all holy people all as part of the Body of Christ is for always. The Archangel Gabriel’s “Hail, Full of Grace…” are the worst words Satan can hear as fulfilling the Woman & Seed conquest. So the real bonus is digging in history and seeing how Jesus fulfilled all religions! “You must eat My Body and drink My Blood to have eternal life.” The Unbloody Sacrifice fulfills even cannibalism, not to suggest that Catholics are cannibals because this is an Unbloody Sacrifice; but note that Eucharistic Miracles have turned into actual Flesh and Blood with unbelievers, still preserved in sanctuaries around the world. So in short everybody should be Catholic. And that’s not even getting into the high physics of the Euchrist; or faith miracles; or likely prophesied worm holes and scientists entering Heaven and getting blasted by St. Michael…We got it all.
THE END.
 
nordskoven said:
The real depth and breadth of Christ’s life, death and resurrection is that He fulfilled all religious contentions. Osiris was put to death and did not rise from the dead, flunking the god test administered by Shem. Jesus did–and raised Lazarus from the dead before His own death; and raised a multitude of others at His resurrection who were gamboling around Jerusalem, so this isn’t a one-off act.

THE END.
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Actually i think it was Horus who was crucified, cut into pieces and his body scattered. His mother and sister I believe gathered his body together and he did arise from the dead. Not a hundred percent sure on that but I do know it was Horus and he did return from the dead according to the tale.

The thing about paganism is there is far to many ‘sects’. Some simply believe in the power of nature, others worship different gods or goddesses. For the most part I think a lot of ‘wiccan lore’ is a cooking pot of other religions. A god sounds good, chuck it in kinda deal.
 
Laughing_Crow said:
Actually i think it was Horus who was crucified, cut into pieces and his body scattered. His mother and sister I believe gathered his body together and he did arise from the dead. Not a hundred percent sure on that but I do know it was Horus and he did return from the dead according to the tale.
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Not by crucifixion according to the first source I found , which seems to refer to death by scorpion poison, but then there can be variations on these things. Mind you, scanning another version on the same site, that seems again to be talking of poison. What’s your source? Also, certainly the second of these imply a removal of poison/curing, rather than full on resurrection, and neither refer to cutting up, do they? Should read it more comprehensively I suppose… 🤷

Possibly Osiris has a legend more like this?? :confused:
Laughing_Crow said:
The thing about paganism is there is far to many ‘sects’. Some simply believe in the power of nature, others worship different gods or goddesses. For the most part I think a lot of ‘wiccan lore’ is a cooking pot of other religions. A god sounds good, chuck it in kinda deal.
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Always means you can go for whatever you want, but then that presumably has implications for your beliefs regarding the nature of such Gods, Goddesses etc. Generally either pantheistic (idealistic or realistic) or polytheistic in character, would you say?
 
Hello everyone

I’m new here and well this is the thread I was “sort” of looking for… I am an ex pagan, and looking for the truth, so please can you help?

when I became a Christian I went the born again route… that felt odd (I’m guessing because though raised an atheist though I went to an Anglican school) so I went back to the Anglican church in the hope of finding the truth… however I’m being lead all the time to the Roman Catholic church… the Idea wont leave my head if I go with this as a sign I’m on the right path it will cause much controversy in my family… even though they dont believe in God (but still got me Christened?!) they loath the Catholic church with a passion, they disagree with the church’s power, ethics, its history and the sex abuse scandals… so I’ve always been taught to avoid Catholics at every turn… run… dont walk!!

But its eating me from the inside out! however when I see the reports my parents speak about I too begin to doubt the legitimacy of the Roman Catholic church and fear if I join I’ll be joining the “dark side” please dont misunderstand me, I’m not trying to offend anyone I’ve been researching the Catholic church for a little while and the more i study the more I go “yeah thats it” but theres always those nagging doubts for example what about the pagan links I’ve even been told about, that there is a distinct luna and solaluna calender to be followed in the bible and failure to praise God on the “correct” Sabbath day based off that calender is insulting to God. That our current calender is pagan in origin and not of God and so going to church on a Sunday is praising Satan and not God.

Also that if I have a Christmas tree in my home I’m worshiping demons, condoning baby sacrifice etc etc.

The Catholic church to my limited knowledge doesnt use this luna/solaluna calender is that correct?

what about the Sabbath day using our current calender is that correct?

All these thoughts about joining the Catholic church came a few weeks before I was finally offered confirmation classes at the local Anglican church… now I dont know whether to carry on as I’m thinking my destiny is with the Roman Catholic church not the Anglican

oh Im so confused my heads in a tail spin… anyone got the breaks?:confused:

I
 
Laughing_Crow said:
Actually i think it was Horus who was crucified, cut into pieces and his body scattered. His mother and sister I believe gathered his body together and he did arise from the dead. Not a hundred percent sure on that but I do know it was Horus and he did return from the dead according to the tale.

The thing about paganism is there is far to many ‘sects’. Some simply believe in the power of nature, others worship different gods or goddesses. For the most part I think a lot of ‘wiccan lore’ is a cooking pot of other religions. A god sounds good, chuck it in kinda deal.
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Osiris is the one that died and rose from the dead, in one telling of it, his body was scattered in several pieces which were found by his wife, Isis. Isis and Osiris are the parents of Horus.
 
abominableangel said:
Hello everyone

I’m new here and well this is the thread I was “sort” of looking for… I am an ex pagan, and looking for the truth, so please can you help?

when I became a Christian I went the born again route… that felt odd (I’m guessing because though raised an atheist though I went to an Anglican school) so I went back to the Anglican church in the hope of finding the truth… however I’m being lead all the time to the Roman Catholic church… the Idea wont leave my head if I go with this as a sign I’m on the right path it will cause much controversy in my family… even though they dont believe in God (but still got me Christened?!) they loath the Catholic church with a passion, they disagree with the church’s power, ethics, its history and the sex abuse scandals… so I’ve always been taught to avoid Catholics at every turn… run… dont walk!!

But its eating me from the inside out! however when I see the reports my parents speak about I too begin to doubt the legitimacy of the Roman Catholic church and fear if I join I’ll be joining the “dark side” please dont misunderstand me, I’m not trying to offend anyone I’ve been researching the Catholic church for a little while and the more i study the more I go “yeah thats it” but theres always those nagging doubts for example what about the pagan links I’ve even been told about, that there is a distinct luna and solaluna calender to be followed in the bible and failure to praise God on the “correct” Sabbath day based off that calender is insulting to God. That our current calender is pagan in origin and not of God and so going to church on a Sunday is praising Satan and not God.

Also that if I have a Christmas tree in my home I’m worshiping demons, condoning baby sacrifice etc etc.

The Catholic church to my limited knowledge doesnt use this luna/solaluna calender is that correct?

what about the Sabbath day using our current calender is that correct?

All these thoughts about joining the Catholic church came a few weeks before I was finally offered confirmation classes at the local Anglican church… now I dont know whether to carry on as I’m thinking my destiny is with the Roman Catholic church not the Anglican

oh Im so confused my heads in a tail spin… anyone got the breaks?:confused:

I
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I dont have the answers to your inquires regarding the calendars, etc. But I share a similar journey to yours…I was raised Christian, ended up practicing pagan, then when I was attempting to return to Christianity I was being pulled in a lot of different directions, the strongest being Catholic (Which by the way, was the one direction that most went against how I was raised and my family of origin). The way I was able to clearly discern this process was to totally immerse/devote myself to the one thing that was MOST attracting me…it may be different for you or for anyone else (the beauty of the Church is that there are so many devotions an individual can focus on) but for me it was the Eucharist; so I went to Adoration. This led me (through trial and error, mostly error) to finally get set straight on the conversion process.
This process never ends. However I can honestly say that it began in Christ and my hope is that it will end in Christ. My advice to you is if you are feeling called home, go home. It is often a great sacrifice, but that is what God asks of us. It is the way of the cross.
 
I’m lapsed LDS and just got back from dinner with my best friend who is wiccan, so we have some things in common here, Zipper. Since you had been LDS, I’m wondering what you think about the LDS answer to your question, i.e. that Christ’s true church is to some extent based on doctrines and practices that were known to God’s peoples throughout history, including some peoples not mentioned or at least not detailed much in the Bible. Like the community of Enoch. Or the community of Melchizedek, to whom Abraham paid tithes.

Since other peoples prior to the Jews had contact with and knowledge from the divine, it stands to reason that some pagan religions may have adopted truthful doctrines; they may also have corrupted sacraments that had been conducted under proper priesthood authority under Noah, Enoch, Melchizedek, etc.
 
What we think regarding how we should worship Yahweh doesn’t matter…we are not the one being worshipped …he is !!..I am sure your heart is sincere in the way you worship…but a sincere heart can be sincerely wrong !!

The 1st 5 books of the old testament are the laws…Leviticus 23 explains Yahweh’s holy days…We must worship Yahweh the way he has instructed us. There is nothing in the bible about celebrating his birthday…or Easter. Christmas & Easter are pagan traditions…

Since Jesus was conceived during Chanukah, six months after John the Baptist, he would also have been born six months after John:
Since John was born on Passover, the 15th day of Nisan (the 1st Jewish month), Jesus would have been born six months later on the 15th day of Tishri (the 7th Jewish month). The 15th day of the 7th month begins the Feast of Tabernacles (Lev. 23:34-35), also known as Sukkot. Jesus was born on the 1st day of the Feast of Tabernacles! In the year 5 BCE, this fell in the month of September.

God Bless !!
 
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