Clapping for the choir after mass

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I, for one, am amused by the proliferation of “ministers”. Let’s see—We have “Welcoming Ministers” aka people who open the door and smile. We have the “Music Ministers” aka the organist and choir. etc.

From the day I entered first grade until the day I got married, the opportunity to be a priest or deacon and thus a minister was open to me. I consciously made another choice. I have no problem with being a lay person and parishioner. I find all this talk of people being this or that sort of minister patronizing and condescending. To me, and I am not everybody, it is like when you make up stuff for your small kids to do, so they don’t feel left out.
 
To me, applause after Mass for the choir always makes me feel like we just attended a concert. Like it cheapens it to me in a way…

In high school, the choir used to take a bow after Mass while everyone was applauding, hooting, hollering… That really bothered me. Standing on the altar in front of the tabernacle taking bows for a “performance”… It just doesn’t add up.

I would prefer to let them know afterwards what a fine job they did. Better still, if they want to sing something at the parish social hall after Mass for coffee hour, we can clap for them then.

That is what happened a few months ago when our team of cantors broke out into “Happy Birthday” for our parish priest in the social hall. We clapped for em both then. There is a time, there is a place.
 
OK–perhaps I took your comments too personally. Blog posting is a pretty imperfect way to communicate—you miss so much.

I do not know that applause bothers me so much in isolation as what it represents. To me, it is just another instance of a lack of an outward sign of reverence in church. Please note, I do not pretend to know someone’s interior disposition nor pretend that I am holier or better than others. I am commenting on what I am seeing. So, maybe people do swat at gnats and go on at length in a legalistic fashion about small things. But, to me, these small things keep adding up into a big source of irritation. Perhaps a lot of the other posters feel the same way?
Maybe they do feel some sort of small irritation at this and that culminating in a big rash or irritation. I know I am very irritating! (Can I get a witness? 😛 ) But ya know what? We just have to get over ourselves. Being a Christian means to be part of a community. Irritation is part of that experience. (Maybe being an irritant is my spiritual gifting!?! Hey, can I be the Irritation Minister?)

The BIG Catholic picture:

We are part of the Body of Christ; past, present, and future. We celebrate in communion with each other; the communion of the Saints. God is relational, so we are relational. God had made a covenant with His people, not His single person.

I think we get all wrapped up in totally meaningless junk (that’s be me in that we too, eh). Then what? We gripe. Is that edifying to anyone? Nope. Does it bring about unity? Nope. What does it really do? Divide, alienate, and attempts to bring judgment upon our fellow Christians. This is simply not The Way. And I just don’t have a charitable way to say, “Shut up!” to all the whiners out there, but it has to be said somehow.

Look at the arguments put forward in just this thread:
  • Clapping detracts from God in Church. You mean just like a rosary does? Well, er um …
  • Clapping detracts from the quiet at Church. Just like children do? Well, er um …
  • If the choir was moved back to the loft people wouldn’t clap. If you moved to a different mass where people don’t clap that would fix it too. Well, er um …
You get what I am saying I am sure, so now I’ll shut up. 😛
 
At the end of Mass, I am thanking God that he has allowed me, a poor unworthy sinner, to receive the Precious Body and Blood of His Son. It is hard to do this when the people around me are applauding.

Applause, especially after Mass is always inappropriate.

Mass is the highest for of worship. Mass is not a form of entertainment.
 
Sure, go ahead and build new churches with choir lofts.

But provide an elevator, please.

At the 100 year-old parish where I play the piano, there is no choir. Many of those interested, specifically the elderly, are not able to walk up the steps to sing in the choir loft.

In fact, I had my surgery in March and I am still unable to walk up a flight of steps without a lot of pain. And I’m only 50.

Elevators cost, but if you want a choir in a loft, please spend the extra money. Thanks.
 
Occasionally, we clap to say thanks to the choir for practicing and singing beautifully. Their beautiful singing can actually help us lift up our souls and pray during the mass.

When I used the word “occasionally”, I mean mass such as Christmas, dedication mass - those important ones. It takes months for practicing. The choir can have some encouragement.

I don’t like the idea of clapping at every Sunday mass.
 
And the hand clapping is after the mass is over too right? The way I’ve always seen it done is that the music ministers play until the procession is completely out of the Church and then some people offer their thanks for the music by applauding. God forbid we show any appreciation to our ministers. Now we need replace the holy water with lemon juice so everyone is on the same page with regard to their sourpussiness.

Hey, I know! :newidea:

What if people that didn’t want to clap, like you know, didn’t clap? And for the ones that any clapping sounds at all at any time just bunches up their panties to the extreme went to a mass that had no music?
You miss the point entirely. After Mass has ended, people are still standing in the presence of Jesus, who they have just received in Holy Communion, and Who just reenacted His Sacrifice on Calvary. Remember, according to the saints, that this time is meant to be used in interior recollection and prayer for an increase in grace.

St Alphonsus de Liquori teaches that as long as this heavenly food continues in the body, the more it nourishes the soul with grace, provided the communicant has the corresponding disposition.

He also says that we should remain with Jesus in prayer for at least half an hour after receiving Communion, and that a quarter of an hour is too little.

So, the distraction of applause removes this focus that is due to our Lord and places it on human achievement. Very pleasing to those who like to honour others and be honoured in this way, but perhaps there is a better time for the accolades?
 
You miss the point entirely. After Mass has ended, people are still standing in the presence of Jesus, who they have just received in Holy Communion, and Who just reenacted His Sacrifice on Calvary. Remember, according to the saints, that this time is meant to be used in interior recollection and prayer for an increase in grace.

St Alphonsus de Liquori teaches that as long as this heavenly food continues in the body, the more it nourishes the soul with grace, provided the communicant has the corresponding disposition.

He also says that we should remain with Jesus in prayer for at least half an hour after receiving Communion, and that a quarter of an hour is too little.

So, the distraction of applause removes this focus that is due to our Lord and places it on human achievement. Very pleasing to those who like to honour others and be honoured in this way, but perhaps there is a better time for the accolades?
No I am not missing the point at all. At your church after mass is it completely quiet for 30 minutes or better? Or is there instead a hum of noise from the activity as people leave, meet with their friends, talk, laugh, and round up their children? The idea that a small spattering of a golf clap after mass is such a horrific event is too laughable when we really see the reality of life after mass. It really is NO BIG FAT HAIRY DEAL if people clap after mass for what? Maybe 4 seconds? Well, it’s no big deal except for the people that gripe about anything and everything they don’t like before the mass starts, and about what happens in the mass they don’t like, and / or about what happens after the mass they don’t like. It’s just another thing people like to gripe about because it doesn’t meet with their liking. And EDIT forget about the liking of the people that like to clap or appreciate it when others clap showing their appreciation to this musicians. The clappers are all wrong and should burn in hell, the non-clappers are justified. Because that’s what matters.
 
No I am not missing the point at all. At your church after mass is it completely quiet for 30 minutes or better? Or is there instead a hum of noise from the activity as people leave, meet with their friends, talk, laugh, and round up their children? The idea that a small spattering of a golf clap after mass is such a horrific event is too laughable when we really see the reality of life after mass. It really is NO BIG FAT HAIRY DEAL if people clap after mass for what? Maybe 4 seconds? Well, it’s no big deal except for the people that gripe about anything and everything they don’t like before the mass starts, and about what happens in the mass they don’t like, and / or about what happens after the mass they don’t like. It’s just another thing people like to gripe about because it doesn’t meet with their liking. And to hell with the liking of the people that like to clap or appreciate it when others clap showing their appreciation to this musicians. The clappers are all wrong and should burn in hell, the non-clappers are justified. Because that’s what matters.
If you are saying that prayerful, sacred silence is lacking and much needed in our Churches today, I agree with you. Silence before, during and after Mass is respectful to God and sets a good example of holiness that is much lacking in many of our churches. If that were practiced, there wouldn’t be any clapping, would there?
 
This whole discussion is exactly why I’m a big supporter of the use of choir lofts.

Back when church architects and liturgists actually thought with a Catholic mind, they incorporated choir lofts in our churches precisely to obviate the human tendancy to seek narcissistic gratification during Mass. Choirs were meant to be heard, and not seen, like the voices of angels lifting us higher in prayer.

Now, in this age of round-the-clock television and the culture of pervasive entertainment, choirs are put on the front “stage” and compete for attention with the Eucharist. Only in this context does applause make sense.
lepanto,

Excellent. This is precisely the way many older, traditional Catholics feel (i did not say traditionalist, I said traditional).

We were taught our catechism by devoted nuns in the 1950s and 1960s, so we know that we are at Mass to worship Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

At Mass is the last place someone should seek (and find) personal gratification for “a job well done”. Please, where is the virtue of Humility in that??

If we are to follow Christ’s words with actions, we would not seek applause, nor would we offer it at Mass. Reserving that Sacred Event — for Christ, and He Alone.
 
So I would be in complete agreement with those posters who believe in Silence before Mass and after Mass.

Leave the socialization for outside (quietly) or move over to the Social Hall, better yet – Dennys or IHOP. (not trying to advertise here 😃 )
 
The only time that I think it is appropriate would be the occasion that someone who has led the choir or been a prominent cantor for a number of years, is moving out of town and the pastor wishes to recognize their many years of service. I don’t think anything is wrong with this specific situation, but weekly applause is irreverent and not needed.

Pax
 
The only time that I think it is appropriate would be the occasion that someone who has led the choir or been a prominent cantor for a number of years, is moving out of town and the pastor wishes to recognize their many years of service. I don’t think anything is wrong with this specific situation, but weekly applause is irreverent and not needed.

Pax
I agree. 🙂
 
they clap at my mass. it’s worse because my dad does it too. i hate it. EDIT baptist convert just can’t leave some things behind. 😛
 
No I am not missing the point at all. At your church after mass is it completely quiet for 30 minutes or better? Or is there instead a hum of noise from the activity as people leave, meet with their friends, talk, laugh, and round up their children? The idea that a small spattering of a golf clap after mass is such a horrific event is too laughable when we really see the reality of life after mass. It really is NO BIG FAT HAIRY DEAL if people clap after mass for what? Maybe 4 seconds? Well, it’s no big deal except for the people that gripe about anything and everything they don’t like before the mass starts, and about what happens in the mass they don’t like, and / or about what happens after the mass they don’t like. It’s just another thing people like to gripe about because it doesn’t meet with their liking. And forget about the liking of the people that like to clap or appreciate it when others clap showing their appreciation to this musicians. The clappers are all wrong and should burn in hell, the non-clappers are justified. Because that’s what matters.
This argument boils down to, “look, everybody is doing it therefore is must be okay.”

Using the same logic, you can condone abortion, adultery, pornography, prostitution or any grave sin.

Not that I am comparing applause after Mass to abortion, I am simply saying that the logic behind your perspective is flawed.

Lack of reverence at Mass does not justify further lack of reverence.
 
Your links are for individual parish websites and musician conferences. LOL they have absolutely no binding force. I can create my own website and say the same thing.

By contrast, the link and citation that I provided is from an official Vatican document on the Vatican’s website. It think it carries a little more weight.
 
We are part of the Body of Christ; past, present, and future. We celebrate in communion with each other; the communion of the Saints. God is relational, so we are relational. God had made a covenant with His people, not His single person.
And…? So the anti-clappers are non-relational?
I think we get all wrapped up in totally meaningless junk (that’s be me in that we too, eh).
The form and order of the Mass are not “totally meaningless junk.” (If they were, then sure, clapping would be fine.)

If clapping makes the Mass meaningful to you, what else would you like to add to the Mass to make it even more meaningful? Liturgical dancing?? :confused:
 
Conciliar, I have played the piano in church since I was ten. I am now 50.

Playing the piano is an act of humble service.

My ability to play and make music comes from the Lord.

I do not play for my own glory or advancement. I do not ever “perform” in church.

Throughout the years, whenever I have had the privilege of working with children, I teach them that Christians do not “perform,” we serve. We are like those who prepare and serve food, only we prepare and serve music.

I do not “need applause” nor do I seek it out. I am a servant of the Lord, His handmaiden.

It is a special privilege for me to play for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. During the first Mass I ever played for, I was aware of the angels in heaven making their glorious music, and I knew that I was extremely blessed to be included in their “orchestra” in spite of my human limitations and flaws.

Throughout each Mass, I am aware that I am playing for the Lord of heaven and earth, Jesus Christ Himself.

I am also aware that I am playing for the Body of Christ, my brothers and sisters. It is my “job” to help them to draw closer to God.

I do NOT equate prayer with asking for things. Please do not accuse me of this. In fact, since becoming a Catholic three years ago, I have asked for very little from the Lord. Shortly after I converted to Catholicism a wise elderly Catholic woman taught me that it is best to ask for the virtues that will help us to endure and rejoice in whatever comes our way. I have tried to follow her teaching because I believe it is a good teaching.

My husband and I were kicked out of our evangelical Protestant church after a woman pastor propagated lies about us. A tribunal of strangers was convened by the church, and we were told to leave. (A year after we were ousted, the woman pastor was apprehended by church leaders in another lies, and she was fired.)

Even though I had played piano for a church almost every Sunday of my life, after the “ousting,” for almost two years, I didn’t play for church. In fact, I didn’t play for any secular venue either, as my hands shook so badly.

One of the few things that I asked for of the Lord was the opportunity to play for the Holy Mass.

He graciously answered that prayer. I thank Him for allowing me to serve Him with the talent that He gave me.

I do not agree with you that clapping is anonymous and spiritually empty. I’ve found it to be a very touching display of corporate Christian love. Perhaps we have different opinions on this because of our different backgrounds or because of the differences in our cities or ethnicity.

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. Remember that the Bible, especially the Psalms, is full of admonitions to “clap your hands, all you people.”

Yes, the Bible also contains admonitions to “be silent before the Lord.”

So neither of us can claim a lock on “the truth” when it comes to clapping. Both of our opinions about clapping are legitimate. The Lord looks into our hearts and discerns our motives. If we are clapping or not clapping out of a desire to glorify God, then it appears from the Bible that God will accept our “offering.”

When the Pharisees asked Jesus to tell the people to be quiet during his entry into Jerusalem, Jesus told them that “If they are silent, the stones will cry out.”

Whether we clap or not, the LORD will receive applause, from the stones if not from His people.

“When I was needy, you clapped for me.” Did I quote that verse? No, I didn’t. It isn’t in the Bible. Please don’t make fun of me or be sarcastic. The Bible says that we should show love and forbearance towards one another. I wish I had a thicker skin, but I must say that your entire post made me feel stupid and very unloved.

Your comment about “I’m glad you don’t perform in my parish” was hard for me to take. It made me want to cry. You don’t even know me, and yet you say such an unwelcoming, unhospitable thng to me.

I suppose I said something along the same lines, but I didn’t personalize it like you did. Yes, I am very grateful that I don’t attend parishes where it is an evil thing to applaud as a “welcome back” for a sister who has undergone surgery and is back at the piano bench serving her Lord and people.

If no one claps, which is the usual scenario after a Mass, that’s OK with me. I don’t need applause. I need to do the Lord’s Will.

I hope this post has helped you to get to know me a little better and realize that I am not a “performer in need of human applause.” I am trying very hard to accept your comments in a good way, and I’m trying to see the good in your comments that you intended. Sometimes written words come across a lot colder than the real person. Perhaps this is the case with you.
 
Cat,

Yes, your post does help me to know you better, and I appreciate that. I really did not intend to hurt you in what I wrote. Every single thing you pointed to as being hurtful was a response to something you wrote.
I’m so glad I don’t go to any of your parishes…
I think you need to re-read your Bible and Catechism…
As for prayer after Mass, the Lord said that when we pray, we should “go into our closet.” If our prayers are causing us to ignore our brothers and sisters, then perhaps we need to examine exactly what we are praying for.
Hmmm… Somehow it’s an act of Christian kindness for you to say you’re happy not to be in my parish, and to suggest that anyone who thinks differently than you needs to re-read their Bible and Catechism, but it’s mean to reply “me too” and it’s “making fun” to point out the obvious with a little humor that your position finds no support in Scripture.

Your comments about prayer after Mass seem to assume that those who do offer them are “praying for” something. Maybe you meant something else? Either way, why do think you are simply free to suggest that if one does stay to thank God in prayer for the Mass, without retreating to “their closet” (an example of taking Scripture out of context) they must also be ignoring their brothers and sisters?

I don’t mean to hurt you further by saying that you dish it out much better than you take it. My assumption, BTW, is that you mean well in showing love to your neighbor. Your assumption seems to be that those who see applause as inconsistent with the sacredness of both the time and the space surrounding the Mass discount, at the very least, the call to love one’s neighbor. Your posts are not above repraoch, Cat.

In all sincerity, I think part of the disconnect here lies in your past experience and how it may be a challenge for you to grasp the vast difference between protestant prayer services and where they take place, and the Sacrifice of the Mass and the dwelling place of Christ in the Eucharist.
 
I used to sing in our parish’s children’s choir. The people always clapped for us after we sang at a Mass, and I HATED IT. I was singing because I liked to sing, and wanted to praise God by singing, and lead the other people in the congregation in singing. I was NOT performing. They NEVER clapped for the adult choir, why clap for us??? Grrr… Anyways, I don’t like it when people clap for musicians at church. People seem to get this ‘singer=performer’ thing stuck in their heads. I’m singing in the choir so that you can follow along, and join in praise to God, that’s it.
 
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