Clapping in Church

[triumphguy]

Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation (Ratzinger, Spirit of the Liturgy).

What if applause breaks out because of awe and reverence?

In some cultures people clap during the elevation - and not because the priest has done such a good job, but because they are welcoming Jesus.

 

[triumphguy]

Nope.The liturgy cannot bow down to cultural issues: what is good in one culture may be wrong in another.

This would not lead to diversity: it would lead to chaos. Remember the biblical tower? As soon as each starts doing things their own way, the unity breaks down. “A house divided shall not stand”.

Regardless of my personal opinion, it is understandable, to a certain extent, that the liturgy may employ the vernacular rather than the official language of the Church, which is Latin. However, to take this even further is to disrupt the liturgy, which, within the context of each Rite, must be one and the same from east to west. We have a wonderful diversity of rites…however, within one same rite (ex. Ordinary Form of Roman Rite) one cannot change things according to the place where the Rite is being celebrated, to the will of the people, or to the will of the celebrant. This is even canonically forbidden, as far as I know.

It is not intentionally irreverent or disrespectful to clap in a culture where this is a sign of respect. One may even argue that if a Rite had developed throughout the centuries in that culture, it would include the clapping, just like the Roman Rite includes bowing. But it becomes irreverent when we go beyond the established forms of the Rite and add our own elements, doing our own will. This is one of the major issues that the Novus Ordo Missae has faced for the last 40 years or so: way too open to “customization” beyond the established norms.

The essential element of Holy Mass is the sense of the sacred, the “awe of the Lord”, that feeling that encompasses the soul and engulfs it in a sacred silence in which she can hear those mystical words: “Be still, and know that I am God.”

You are right - silence might be considered irreverent or lacking in proper respect in some cultures.

 

[Jordan_Rizk]

If that was sinful, then so would ringing bells be.

Ringing bells is part of the mass

 

[triumphguy]

Ringing bells is part of the mass

I know - in the west. But I bet in some parts of the world bells are replaced by rattles or clapping.

In fact i know they are.

You haven’t been to a real traditional latin mass until you’ve heard the football rattle during the consecration.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

There is a difference in essence between clapping for the music of clapping because of someone doing an announcement and clapping for certain parts of the Mass. When you are clapping for certain parts of the Mass (I’m assuming, since this is not a part of my culture), then you are showing respect for what is occurring and still entrenched into the spirit of the Liturgy. If you are clapping for the music or something tangentially related to the Mass, well then it seems like you’re getting away from the point of Mass.

 

[universityprof]

There is nothing wrong with clapping in mass as long as it’s not during a reading or other prayers. It’s fairly common in many parishes I’ve visited to clap after the homily or after song. In my own parish we clap quite a bit after a good homily or after a song, especially if the choir is singing gospel music that particular Sunday - as the case in many racially diverse parishes.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

There is nothing wrong with clapping in mass as long as it’s not during a reading or other prayers. It’s fairly common in many parishes I’ve visited to clap after the homily or after song. In my own parish we clap quite a bit after a good homily or after a song, especially if the choir is singing gospel music that particular Sunday - as the case in many racially diverse parishes.

I feel that it is out of place given that we are there to spend time recalling Calvary and worshiping God and remembering His sacrifice. Clapping for songs (especially gospel songs) seems quite banal given the occasion. What do you think?

 

[Diana_Catherine]

During Holy Mass? I don’t see it in the Decalogue, but would you clap in Calvary, before Christ crucified, alongside with the Blessed Virgin? Would you clap during or after the Last Supper?

Someone once said:

Later on in his life, he became Holy Father Benedict XVI.

St. Pius X, Pope, said:

Yet we must understand that he was referring to something that was very solemn. Hardly will clapping appear as irreverent, today.

Wow, excellent answer.

 

[universityprof]

I feel that it is out of place given that we are there to spend time recalling Calvary and worshiping God and remembering His sacrifice. Clapping for songs (especially gospel songs) seems quite banal given the occasion. What do you think?

I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement about clapping after music, “especially gospel music" as being “banal.” Just a friendly observation, the statement seems to be underpinned with the implication that gospel music is somehow inferior to other styles of music. That’s the beauty of the catholic faith; it’s a large faith and has room for many different musical expressions both in the U.S. and around the globe. If you ever have the opportunity I encourage you to visit an African American Catholic parish. It’s a lively and wonderful mass experience.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement about clapping after music, “especially gospel music" as being “banal.” Just a friendly observation, the statement seems to be underpinned with the implication that gospel music is somehow inferior to other styles of music. That’s the beauty of the catholic faith; it’s a large faith and has room for many different musical expressions both in the U.S. and around the globe. If you ever have the opportunity I encourage you to visit an African American Catholic parish. It’s a lively and wonderful mass experience.

First, I would feel discouraged from going because of the identification of it as being an “African American Catholic parish”. Furthermore, such a title is inherently contradictory, as catholic is defined as “universal” and “inclusive”.

Secondly, gospel music seems to be out of place for the liturgy, given that it is more focused on our emotions rather than lifting our souls to our Lord.

Finally, the point was about the clapping. Clapping for a human achievement seems out of place for the Mass.

 

[BarbG]

I hope clapping is not a sin because our whole congragation clapped at the end of Mass today – we have a beautiful choir and I think we were clapping because of the wonderful music they sang and because their music added to the beauty and solemnity of the Mass!!!

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

I hope clapping is not a sin because our whole congragation clapped at the end of Mass today – we have a beautiful choir and I think we were clapping because of the wonderful music they sang and because their music added to the beauty and solemnity of the Mass!!!

I don’t think it rises to the level of sin because it is not done with the intent of disrespect, but to my mind, it is wholly out of place.

 

[Joannm]

Clapping is done during the Rite of Ordination.

 

[R_C]

You haven’t been to a real traditional latin mass until you’ve heard the football rattle during the consecration.

Actually a few months ago our Archbishop celebrated a Pontifical High Mass (extraordinar form of Roman rite) at the Cathedral, quite a real traditional Mass, unseen for decades in many places…however, since it was not Holy Week, the crotalus was not employed. This instrument is meant is to recall the earthquake that shook the Earth at the death of our Lord on Calvary (certainly, even when used, it is not done to express an outburst of joy or as a sign of respect, but as an audible way to further experience the divine mystery, of course, in a respectful way).

From Catholic Encyclopedia:

[The altar bell] is not rung from the end of the “Gloria in excelsis” on Maundy Thursday to the beginning of the “Gloria in excelsis” on Holy Saturday. During this interval the Memoriale Rituum (Tit. iv, sec. 4, n. 7) prescribes that the clapper (crotalus) be used to give the signal for the Angelus, but it is nowhere prescribed in the liturgical functions. The custom of using the clapper on these occasions appears quite proper.

I was not trying to express a negative opinion on cultural issues, just expressing my concern on random clapping during an ordinary Mass in our country, which happens every so often almost everywhere.

As for the fact that silence is found to be disrespectful in some cultures, it is, of course, understandable. Clapping is not irreverent per se: we even find it in Sacred Scripture:

“All you people, clap your hands, shout to God with cries of gladness… For the king of all the earth is God… God reigns over all the nations” (Ps. 47(46),2.8-9)

We know that in certain places, the Church has indeed taken great steps towards inculturation, including “the use of local traditional forms (such as, f.ex., hand-clapping) to express certain elements of the faith” (see this document by the Special Assembly for Africa of the Synod of Bishops as an example). However, even Cardinal Arinze, president of that Special Assembly, once stated (2003):

when we come to Mass we don’t come to clap. We don’t come to watch people, to admire people. We want to adore God, to thank Him, to ask Him pardon for our sins, and to ask Him for what we need.

However, these elements in these specific cultures are regarded as traditional, while, say, in Europe or the US they may be reverent to an extent (in Italy I have often seen people clapping at the end of funerals) but that do not fit within the traditional liturgy (even in its new form). Point being: if the bishop allows it (ex, in those specific places) then it would be acceptable, in any other place it would not be proper and be reason for scandal in the eyes of the many faithful who do not necessarily perceive such acts as reverent and respectful.

Sinful? A sin is an offense to God. Something done with the intention to praise God cannot, by its own definition, have at the same time the intention to offend him. Now, is clapping at the chorus done to praise God? I wouldn’t personally think so, though it can be seen as a charitable motion of the heart. One which, nevertheless, shifted the focus from God to men, perhaps not sinful, but certainly not proper.

As for the Rite of Ordination, this is what I could find:

in the Rite of Ordination for priests there is an exception for the USA where the congregation can show approval of the act of choosing the men to be ordained and one of the ways proscribed in doing so is applause

 

[triumphguy]

There is a difference in essence between clapping for the music of clapping because of someone doing an announcement and clapping for certain parts of the Mass. When you are clapping for certain parts of the Mass (I’m assuming, since this is not a part of my culture), then you are showing respect for what is occurring and still entrenched into the spirit of the Liturgy. If you are clapping for the music or something tangentially related to the Mass, well then it seems like you’re getting away from the point of Mass.

That’s right!

 

[triumphguy]

Actually a few months ago our Archbishop celebrated a Pontifical High Mass (extraordinar form of Roman rite) at the Cathedral, quite a real traditional Mass, unseen for decades in many places…however, since it was not Holy Week, the crotalus was not employed. This instrument is meant is to recall the earthquake that shook the Earth at the death of our Lord on Calvary (certainly, even when used, it is not done to express an outburst of joy or as a sign of respect, but as an audible way to further experience the divine mystery, of course, in a respectful way).

From Catholic Encyclopedia:

I was not trying to express a negative opinion on cultural issues, just expressing my concern on random clapping during an ordinary Mass in our country, which happens every so often almost everywhere.

As for the fact that silence is found to be disrespectful in some cultures, it is, of course, understandable. Clapping is not irreverent per se: we even find it in Sacred Scripture:

We know that in certain places, the Church has indeed taken great steps towards inculturation, including “the use of local traditional forms (such as, f.ex., hand-clapping) to express certain elements of the faith” (see this document by the Special Assembly for Africa of the Synod of Bishops as an example). However, even Cardinal Arinze, president of that Special Assembly, once stated (2003):

However, these elements in these specific cultures are regarded as traditional, while, say, in Europe or the US they may be reverent to an extent (in Italy I have often seen people clapping at the end of funerals) but that do not fit within the traditional liturgy (even in its new form). Point being: if the bishop allows it (ex, in those specific places) then it would be acceptable, in any other place it would not be proper and be reason for scandal in the eyes of the many faithful who do not necessarily perceive such acts as reverent and respectful.

Sinful? A sin is an offense to God. Something done with the intention to praise God cannot, by its own definition, have at the same time the intention to offend him. Now, is clapping at the chorus done to praise God? I wouldn’t personally think so, though it can be seen as a charitable motion of the heart. One which, nevertheless, shifted the focus from God to men, perhaps not sinful, but certainly not proper.

As for the Rite of Ordination, this is what I could find:

I agree.

When people/ministers “perform” and get “praise” for their ministry, and seem to seek approval in any form and especially in the form of applause it is inappropriate.

 

[Phemie]

Nope.The liturgy cannot bow down to cultural issues: what is good in one culture may be wrong in another.

This would not lead to diversity: it would lead to chaos. Remember the biblical tower? As soon as each starts doing things their own way, the unity breaks down. “A house divided shall not stand”…"

Even the rite of Baptism allows for a non white ‘garment’ in a culture where white has a different meaning.

 

[triumphguy]

Even the rite of Baptism allows for a non white ‘garment’ in a culture where white has a different meaning.

That’s right in some parts of the East white is for death.

 

[GangGreen]

There are times that they honor certain groups or people during mass at my church (which is followed by clapping). Usually it’s after Communion right before the final blessing. Sometimes it’s right after the homily which I can’t stand. Either way, it’s true that it takes away from the real focus whether it’s after the homily or after Communion.

 

[Jordan_Rizk]

Cardinal Arinze stated;
“But when we come to Mass we don’t come to clap. We don’t come to watch people, to admire people. and clap for them and say ‘repeat, repeat, wonderful, excellent.’ That is
alright for the auditorium, for the theatre, even for the parish hall .We come to mass because we want to adore God, to thank Him, to ask Him pardon for our sins, and to ask Him for what we need.”