clapping

[SacredHeartFan]

I know that it is not appropiate to clap during mass for human accomplishments such as the choir, etc. But what about after a baptism celebrating the new member of the church? Just curious…

 

[Rawb]

Why? What has anybody done that warrants clapping?

The most important part during the Sacrament would be done by God. Are we applauding God? Is that how He has asked us to praise Him for His blessings?

Or should we instead pray, sing, or meditate on His graces?

Sorry if I sound confrontational. I strongly dislike clapping in Church.

 

[dconklin]

"To the choirmaster. A Psalm of the Sons of Korah. Clap your hands, all peoples! Shout to God with loud songs of joy! " Psalm 47:1

Would you rather we boo and hiss when someone joins the church?

 

[stuart12]

at my parish on saturday night, it was the priests final weekend (been here for 8 years) before he moves to another parish. after his homily and departing speech the congregation clapped for him. i don’t see any problem with it in times like that but i would be a bit nervous if it happened every week.

 

[notsmart]

Well, when I am able to have my daughter baptised I will be clapping!

 

[roanoker]

What better place and time to express acclaimation and approval than at a baptism?

 

[Lepanto]

"To the choirmaster. A Psalm of the Sons of Korah. Clap your hands, all peoples! Shout to God with loud songs of joy! " Psalm 47:1

The Psalmist was not writing about the Mass.

Would you rather we boo and hiss when someone joins the church?

Well, if applause is allowed, then booing and hissing should also be allowed.

 

[Seatuck]

I’ve seen writings from the Bishop’s on both sides of the fence. This would be one of those highly prevalent cultural practices that are sometimes allowed in concert with liturgy. Americans are strong users of clapping to show approval , excitement, joy, etc. It is appropriate to express those at a Baptism ,Wedding or Confimation into the Church. Used judiciously it need not take any reverence away from the eucharist/sacrifice portion of a particular liturgy.

 

[FAB]

I’ve seen writings from the Bishop’s on both sides of the fence. This would be one of those highly prevalent cultural practices that are sometimes allowed in concert with liturgy. Americans are strong users of clapping to show approval , excitement, joy, etc. It is appropriate to express those at a Baptism ,Wedding or Confimation into the Church. Used judiciously it need not take any reverence away from the eucharist/sacrifice portion of a particular liturgy.

When we look at the celebration of mass only along the lines of only see the divinity of Jesus, we take away his humanity. Jesus experinanced and participated in all human emotions. As members of the body of Christ we are called to strive to be like him, not God, but the perfection of humanity. Clapping is an outward sign of our emotions and certainly showing approval for anothers accoplishment, or joy brings us closer to that fullfilment.

Peace
FAB

 

[snhs]

Pope Benedict wrote “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.”

Perhaps FAB could explain why Pope Benedict with years of Pastoral experience and studying theology etc is wrong on this issue while they are right?

 

[hilde_the_dog]

SNHS I agree with your quote, but at the same time I don’t believe all clapping is tied to “human achievement” and neither does Pope Benedict, and thus would be okay with Pope Benedict’s quote.

 

[Lepanto]

I “think” there are only two places in all the liturgical practices in which the rubrics actually specify clapping.

One of them is at a certain point of the installation Mass when a new bishop takes over a diocese. The other is at an ordination Mass–right after a man is ordained deacon or priest, the bishop presents the ordinand to the people, and they are supposed to clap.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Seatuck]

Pope Benedict wrote “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.”

Perhaps FAB could explain why Pope Benedict with years of Pastoral experience and studying theology etc is wrong on this issue while they are right?

I wonder if he was referring to singing.

 

[snhs]

SNHS I agree with your quote, but at the same time I don’t believe all clapping is tied to “human achievement” and neither does Pope Benedict, and thus would be okay with Pope Benedict’s quote.

FAB’s contention was “Clapping is an outward sign of our emotions and certainly** showing approval for anothers accoplishment**, or joy brings us closer to that fullfilment.” (Bold added) The specific example provided by FAB was clapping as a way of showing approval for another’s accomplishment. Meanwhile the quote from Pope Benedict states “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement”.

I didn’t put forward the quote as a means of showing all clapping was inappropriate in the Liturgy, indeed as others have pointed out it is called for at Ordinations, and you are certainly correct that the quote from Pope Benedict doesn’t go that far. However it goes far enough to show that the opinion of the Pope as seen in his published writing is at odds with the view FAB expressed, it was that discrepancy that I was pointing out and querying.

 

[snhs]

I wonder if he was referring to singing.

The quote says “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement”, not ‘whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of people singing well’. I hope you’ll forgive me for continuing to believe that the Pope wrote what he intended.

 

[steve975]

Speaking of clapping, especially clapping in response to human achievement, I’m curious what you all think of Cardinal O’Connor’s (the former archbishop of the archdiocese of New York) funeral in 2000. I was a little surprised to see that during his funeral Mass, when his staunch pro-life stand was discussed (I assume it was the homily), the entire congregation - priests, bishops, laity, everyone - stood up in applause. I had always understood this to be inappropriate, but I saw this on television and was surprised.

 

[FAB]

Pope Benedict wrote “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.”

Perhaps FAB could explain why Pope Benedict with years of Pastoral experience and studying theology etc is wrong on this issue while they are right?

I certain wouldn’t question my pope, but as with many things I would have to see the entire context of what is was from. I have seen him applauded on many occations, including during or after celebration of the liturgy. He specfically indicates, “in the Liturgy” which would specifically within the body of the mass, “human achievement” could mean a number of things, a good soloist? homilist?, choral number? or is he just warning not to make the liturgy entertainment. That what ever an indivual or group does in the liturgy is for the greater glory of God and not for themselves. Many choirs and priest could fall into the latter catigory of putting on a performance.

Peace,
FAB

 

[snhs]

I certain wouldn’t question my pope, but as with many things I would have to see the entire context of what is was from. I have seen him applauded on many occations, including during or after celebration of the liturgy. He specfically indicates, “in the Liturgy” which would specifically within the body of the mass, “human achievement” could mean a number of things, a good soloist? homilist?, choral number? or is he just warning not to make the liturgy entertainment. That what ever an indivual or group does in the liturgy is for the greater glory of God and not for themselves. Many choirs and priest could fall into the latter catigory of putting on a performance.

Peace,
FAB

You’ll just take a view that is diametrically opposed to his own?

It is in the context of “The Spirit of the Liturgy”, feel free to look it up if you like.

Have you ever seen him ask for applause during the Mass? Has he ever encouraged people to applaud when he makes a good point during a Homily? I’m afraid that, much as you might like to see applause ( for “some human achievement”) occurring at Masses the Pope celebrates as an endorsement of your view, he is not in control of everything that every person might do during the Mass. Your attempts at rationalising it away are no more valid than saying a Priest at the local Parish supports people holding hands during the Mass purely on the basis that a few people present at the Mass choose to do so.

Nice attempt to get around what he said. It should be fairly easy to see what he means.

He specifically says “some human achievement” because it applies regardless of what human achievement is in question. The Pope didn’t impose a limit on what kind of human achievement he was talking about, nor should you. He states that applause breaking out (as a result of “some human achievement”) “is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment”.

Liturgy is defined as “A formal act or set of acts prescribed by ritual: ceremonial, ceremony, observance, office, rite, ritual, service.” For example, if you look here you will note that it refers to each part of the Mass as either a rite or Liturgy. Now unless you believe that Pope Benedict didn’t understand the meaning of the word Liturgy when he wrote “The Spirit of the Liturgy” it is fairly clear that the quote refers to the whole Mass, not just the Liturgy of the Word or the Liturgy of the Eucharist as you’re trying to reduce it to.

 

[Seatuck]

The quote says “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement”, not ‘whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of people singing well’. I hope you’ll forgive me for continuing to believe that the Pope wrote what he intended.

Which book? Spirit of the Liturgy?

 

[japhy]

I have seen him applauded on many occations, including during or after celebration of the liturgy. He specfically indicates, “in the Liturgy” which would specifically within the body of the mass, “human achievement” could mean a number of things, a good soloist? homilist?, choral number? or is he just warning not to make the liturgy entertainment.

I think, given what he’s written on the matter, he would prefer not to be applauded at Mass. But I also think he’s too polite and pastoral to show up in another country, receive applause during Mass, and then tell the people that clapping is not appropriate at the liturgy. Instead, he goes about it by more reserved means: giving liturgical admonitions to the clergy (who are then to relay it in pastoral ways to the faithful), and writing about the topic.

What are the Pope’s gestures when he receives applause? Does he seem to be egging it on or trying to quell it?